“Think about sport and London 2012, all doom and gloom forecasts before and naysayers the reality was we delivered the stadiums and facilities ahead of schedule under budget and with zero fatalities. The games where an outstanding success and the best ever which is quite a achievement given Sydney 2000. We are a small nation yet deliver outstanding Olympic performances at the highest level.”

Under budget? What, the eventual 4x the cost of the initial claimed budget?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6453575.stm

Zero fatalities?

http://londonist.com/2011/06/first-fatality-on-olympic-park-as-storms-sweep-london

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/news/9445469/London-2012-Olympics-cyclist-killed-after-collision-with-Games-media-bus.html

Olympic legacy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33404776

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3276644/So-Olympic-legacy-400-000-fewer-doing-sports-London-s-2012-Games.html

What **** world do you live in, Jamba? 🙄

“we used to be the best – could, with work, be the leader once again”

Ah, the problem with that, is that Empire has collapsed, and there’s no longer a plethora of subjugated nations to exploit resources from. Education increasingly becoming inaccessible to increasing numbers of people. Other nations doing things better and cheaper. Etc. Your optimism, whilst commendable, is somewhat misplaced.

Didn’t Britain lead the world in various engineering and scientific fields,due in large part to public investment, and this was widely known in the public consciousness and celebrated in the media generating a national feel good factor.Post WW2 the Labour government delivered real substantial social changes,welfare state, NHS ,decent social housing etc despite difficult economic conditions.Perhaps that’s what they mean?
Or should this be in the Jeremy Corbyn thread 😉

we are one of the worlds greatest nations for science, technology and innovation

True. But then we fail to keep it here, a la Arm Holdings this week. Right after T May announced that she’d be implementing ways to prevent foreign interests buying key British businesses….

Passes mantle of fact checking jamby on to clodhopper
TBH it easier to just say when he gets something factually correct and he definitely wont listen and he will keep repeating things he know are factually untrue.

Sod that, Junkyard. Life’s too short.

And it’s too big a job for one person alone. We’ll have to do it in shifts. 😆

ISTM that the world had not had enough of killing each other yet. We’re pretty good at designing and making weapons, so we should get along fine.

🙄

we are one of the worlds greatest nations for science, technology and innovation

This is about to all go down the plughole incase you hadn’t noticed.

Thats ok – people in this country have had enough of experts

I think its time to face facts- as I said earlier, its emblematic of how much we’ve altered industrially, economically, and politically in that we now need the French and Chinese to build and fund the nuclear power station(s) that our politicians failed to plan for- and the only way the deal was signed off was for us to drop our pants as consumers.

Its PFI for electricity.

That to me says it all: we valued financial innovation at the expense of pretty much everything else, and for the really important stuff we’re now seriously over a barrel and can only think of the sale. So much so that our dear leader phones the CEO of a bank who’s just bought one of our technology flagships to thank him for his purchase. That should have stayed in the UK, I can hardly believe that they allowed this to happen.

Didn’t Britain lead the world in various engineering and scientific fields,due in large part to public investment, and this was widely known in the public consciousness and celebrated in the media generating a national feel good factor.

No, if you look at the grand scale most of it was undertaken with entreprenurial funding.

yes, but predating that there was the bridges, mills, railways, lighthouses, factories, steam engines, telegraph, wireless telegraph etc. etc. that were funded by entrepreneurs

ninfan – Member

Look at what Britain has invented over the years

we are one of the worlds greatest nations for science, technology and innovation,

we used to be the best – could, with work, be the leader once again
I’m sure we could. But the EU wasn’t stopping us, in fact it was helping us and we still couldn’t hack it. Without that help, where do we go now?

ninfan

Whoops, I deleted my reply in hamfisted editing error.

Can we make Weston Super Mare super again please.

Isn’t the reason why there were so many great Scottish engineers and inventors from the 19th century onwards was because Scotland introduced free public schooling about a century before England did?

I thought Olympics were great, then I saw a pic of vinokorouv winning the RoadRace

Back to the industrial revolution? Oh yes, everything was just super back then!

Its not really like life in pre-industrial agrarian Britain was a complete picnic either though, is it?

Where did I say it was?

I was in France the day after we voted out and spoke with a French fella about the whole thing.

He said the problem with the English is that they never stopped fighting the Second World War…

I hope you pointed out that the problem with the French was that they never started fighting it 😀

@clod I wasn’t aware of the ONE fatality. Point still very much valid, thanks for backing up my point. Only 1 fatality on a construction project of that size is a spectacular achievement. Budget was indeed revised as you note but before the real work began and primarily as a result of adding in things like infrastructure which wasn’t games only specific plus increases in regeneration or legacy investment costs, it was delieverd under the budget. The Olympics where a global success show casing the best of Great Britain and despite the large number of whiners and naysayers.

The report on the IMF today made chilling reading, none of the findings are news to me. IMF run as a political organisation with low levels of professionalism and lacking in analytical integrety. Totally ignored (or didn’t notice ?) spiralling levels of eurozone debt way beyond sustainable levels running up to 2007. Bent their own rules to prevent the Euro collapsing in 2010 and did so without consulting Asia members in particular. Greek bailout in particular broke so many rules and could never has worked as advertised. IMF pro euro when the design of the currency was fundamentally flawed. The unwritten conclusion is clear that the IMF shoud acknowledge Greece is bust and that the euro must be heavily revised or simply abandoned, it just cannot work as is.

All this and people here want to be in a political union with this bunch of corrupt and incompetant bureaucrats and think we’d be better off economically doing so. Madness.

Slow hand clap for predictable reply, and a wonderful illustration of exactly the kind of thing he meant.

We’re still defining ourselves by reference to our presumed superiority over other nations, and it’s all a bit sad.

I hate to say it but there is a huge risk/flaw in the plan. There may not be a Britain to make great again.
But just in case the plan is to work doubly hard (cause in reality everyone was slacking before) and go exploit all those countries we forgot about before they exploit us.

The OP asked what STWers thought making Britain great again meant. Reading only posts which try and answer this question helps to shorten this thread like most others.

If a Brexit means Scottish independence, then surely one of the results will be to make Great Britain just Britain again?
At least if the Ordnance Survey is to be believed

The report on the IMF today made chilling reading, none of the findings are news to me. IMF run as a political organisation with low levels of professionalism and lacking in analytical integrety.

I’m confused, is this the same IMF that you were using to back up your points or the one that you were compaining about or the one you were using to back up you points?

Reading only posts which try and answer this question helps to shorten this thread like most others make me laugh.

FIFY

with zero fatalities.

[quote]@clod I wasn’t aware of the ONE fatality. Point still very much valid[/quote]

Indeed its true one only has to accept one and zero have the same value

Remind us all what your degree is in wont you
I have the night shift covered 😆

Well lets set some parameters.
A couple of months back I think we were the 6th biggest economy in the world, then we slipped to 7th…
So would getting back to 6th be great?
To use a footballing term you want to be a buying club not a selling club – See ARM lets see what happens next
London is currently one of the major finaincial centres of the world. Dropping off that list would definiatly be a move to the less great column
Some random web quotes (unatributed intentionally)

Some people say that Singapore is a great nation, and when pressed for justification, talk about how clean, efficient and safe Singapore is, about the world-class airport and harbour, about the lack of corruption, etc. In the aftermath of the financial crises in Europe and US, they also point out how Singapore now has much better finances than western countries.

They are mistaken.

Being able to walk safely at 2 am is not the distinguishing point of a great nation. If it was, North Korea could become a great nation.

Neither is it about having many -hubs or -polis. Or world-class this or world-class that. Or having the best airport in the world. Or the busiest harbour in the world.

It’s not even about the lack of corruption.

Being a great nation is not about having the largest land area, the largest economy or the mightiest military power. If it was based on such quantitive criteria, the greatness of nations would just be a ranking by size, economy or military power.

Government
A great country has a government that doesn’t just care about itself, but about the people too. Instead of seeking power and money, it promotes progress, not only of the country but of the people intellectually. It has to be strict, but fair. It must regulate what happens and what should not be based on positive initiatives not profit. Finally, it should promote the care for its citizens that have worked to make the country great because doing so is omni directional.

Patriotism
People have to love their country. If they don’t, then the country looses. If a person moves to another country only for temporary financial gain then they should think about the fact that they will be a reason for the failure of a country that gave them a chance when the country that they came from did not.

Patriotism can also be a very dangerous thing; it can blind citizens to the wrong-doings and faults of their country. Love your country but try to have an unbiased point of view.

Taking a quote from the scriptures as an example, “let them who are without sin cast the first stone…” tells us to think about our own situations before criticizing another, put yourself in the same perspective to gain a clearer and better thought on the subject.

If military might made a nation great, the Assyrian and Roman empires would never have fallen. If scientific education made a nation great, Nazi Germany would have ruled the world. If vast natural resources made a nation great, the former Soviet Union would be flourishing. If money made a nation great, the oil rich nation of Saudi Arabia would be strong.
The United States has all of the above measures of strength in abundance. Do those items make us a great nation? No. They only make us a country rich in the symbols and accouterments of material wealth, worldly wisdom, and physical power. They are not standards of real worth, or of true value.

Making a country GREAT again, is one of those things, like making a new years resolution to drink a bit less and exercise a bit more. It’s all open to interpitation and easy to roll out the excuses when you suddenly don’t end up looking like a pro sportsman or model come July.

Promising an outcome without a plan is pointless, then blaming people for not having faith or vision in the mild aspiration of the people who just suggested that you could ride faster by losing weight (just forgot to mention that weight was your left leg).

So the issue remains, not only what is great but how far back we are in starting to get to be great and what are we doing now to be great that we couldn’t actually do 6 months ago.

and to add one final point

back to celebrating days when working in the safe and healthy conditions down t’ pit were owt to look forward to. Them were days! Good old primary and secondary heavy industry made us great.

..and not having “darkies, frogs and other nasties” owning businesses here. Now that is the pits 😯

…who claimed that xenohobia and racism were restricted to Brexit?

Austin allegro anyone?

I think what can and does make us great is our innate believe in democracy and our resilience.

IE. We had a vote,we’re out of the EU. Suck it up and get on with it.

Who called us Great anyway? ……… Oh thats right we called ourselves great 😆

It wasn’t like there was a competition like Eurovision, and the winner is Britain, from now on you can call yourself Great.

How do we make ourselves great again, how about by being nice and respectful to people, being honest, helping those less fortunate than our selves etc etc*

* realises this sounds like hippy dippy rubbish but they of been onto something.

Morris dancing

Who called us Great anyway? ……… Oh thats right we called ourselves great

Actually it was Ptolemy (blood second century Greco-Eyptian ‘experts’ coming over hear, naming things). He referred to the larger island of England/Wales/Scotland as ‘great Britain’ (small ‘g’) and Ireland as ‘little Britain’. Later Britannia Major was used to distinguish out island from Britannia Minor – Brittany. Thats the area of mainland europe settled by British Isle Celts. Brits abroad.

Presumably the island of mainland Britain has been shrinking if it needs making ‘great’ again, probably because of crazy EU quotas on longshore drift. Now that we’re out of the EU we can spend £350 million a day giving every hard working brit a ton of type 1 gravel, a wheelbarrow and a shovel and we’ll physically enlarge this (formerly) great country of ours. Or pay someone polish to do it if that sounds like hard work.

Actually it was Ptolemy (blood Greco-Eyptian

Every day is a school day 😆

This may be a quite uncomfortable thing for people who don’t work in heavy industry but actually it was an amazing achievement. That’s obviously no comfort for those connected to the deceased, but the fact is that there is no such thing as perfect safety and we as a society have long accepted that fact.

Every day is a school day

You’re not even saying ‘Great Britain’ right if you’re not pronouncing it with a Greco Egyptian accent

This may be a quite uncomfortable thing for people who don’t work in heavy industry but actually it was an amazing achievement.

I do work in such industry. Trust me, there is nothing amazing about ‘only’ having one fatality in a project of that size. Not in this country anyway.

I genuinely believe Britain is better now than it has been at any other point of history. We have a high life expectancy than we ever have, infant mortality is lower, standard of living are higher, generally, we’re in a good place.

Yes there are thinks that could change and be improved, but to look at the 50’s (or 60’s/70’s/80’s) and say it was “better” then is just plain naive.