Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 127 total)
  • legalise cannabis???
  • TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Wharton – if you can go to the corner shop and buy “20 reefer madnesses please” with a known strength and quality why go to a dealer for something not known

    there is a trade in smuggled alcohol but its very small – the trade in smuggled tobacco is larger but there is a huge price differential and its still a small trade compared to the legal one

    I would be surprised ifbigtobbaccoco would not be able to undercut the illegal trade anyway

    qwerty
    Free Member

    TJ –richcc – actually cannabis does not create a lot of crime – no one mugs grannies to pay for a spliff. Pot heads just sit around being dull

    err actually inner city kids living in poverty do!

    The Sunday TimesMagistrates are calling for tougher laws on cannabis to halt a crime wave among children who are stealing to buy drugs and graduating to more dangerous drugs.

    Ref: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article648195.ece

    And if your talking legalising or categorizing the weed then maybe taking into account the amount of THC in the product is relevent. A bit of dodgy home grown is a totally different kettle of fish than a GM skunk.

    There was a documentary a while back on the telly that said the “natural” grown weed actually had some other chemicals in it that yinged the yang of the THC and hugely reduced the risk of mental health issues, whereas GM grown skunk types with sky high THC didn’t have this opposing chemical component therefore increasing the risk of mental health issues.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    i’d rather post pictures of cats with odd captions

    This is about to move into the realms of debate I’m interested in.

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    _tom_
    Free Member

    Weed never makes people violent, alcohol does. All weed will do is make you relaxed and want to eat a lot of junk food whilst watching films or playing xbox 🙂

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    effing nora! – i’m agreeing with TJ! – quick, start an argument about the unions or something, i’m starting to feel quite uncomfortable…

    j_me
    Free Member

    actually cannabis does not create a lot of crime – no one mugs grannies to pay for a spliff. Pot heads just sit around being dull

    Where does the money go that people spend on buying cannabis? Only a small amount goes to the part time dealer, the vast majority will go to serious and organised crime. For example in Northern Ireland the illegal drug trade is run almost exclusively by the paramilitary organisations.

    Think BIG picture, cumulative effect.

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    phiconsequence – You want the opinion of a regular (ex) canabis smoker – well here goes…

    I am a lead developer for an international software company, I used to smoke most days and I do not perceive there to be any harm in it. Many of my colleagues also smoked pot, some of whom are incredibly talented family men with a lot to offer to the world. I am sure there are plenty of lazy arsed students who don’t pay their bills but I expect you could attribute as many of those failures to alcohol, bad upbringing or poor motivation.

    Personally, I liked a litte something to relax me of an evening. It costs less than booze, didin’t give me a hangover, leads to some excellent cooking and made me more affable. My other half was instinctively opposed to the stuff by virtue of its legal standing but I convincingy turned her around on the matter.

    I have met very few of the stereotypical stoners that have been alluded to on this thread, I know hyperactive stoners, calm stoners, creative stoners, mathematical stoners, every sort of person from every walk of life. A friend of mine is a top psychologist and he likes a toke. An insurance salesman and pillar of the community in my home town just got busted for smoking weed.

    Of course, it is not for everyone, some people cannot handle the stuff and they very quickly learn not to smoke it at all, my brother included. It is interesting to note that in those countries where it is legal, there is no proven higher incidence of psychosis or schizophrenia, I have always been of the opinion that it may trigger a pre-existing condition in those with a propensity towards mental illness, but is rarely, if ever the cause.

    That is certainly no reason (and appears to be the only reason) to stop those who enjoy it from doing so openly.

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    the unions….

    Largely funded by the illegal drug and antique teddy bear trade.

    qwerty
    Free Member

    qwerty
    Free Member

    Weed never makes people violent

    cannabis doesn’t kill people – drug induced psychosis does though 💡

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    qwerty that story has all the hallmarks of “Reefer madness” stories Its basicly rubbish mixing up the different types of drugs and treating them all as one

    there is no such thing as “cannabis addiction” – the kids will be claiming this in the hope of lighter sentences I bet

    graduating to more dangerous drugs

    is completely discounted by those who work in the drugs field

    Skunk is not significantly higher in THC that other strains – repeatedly shown. There is something about the mix of cannabinoids in it that might have some effect on mental health as you point out

    nonk
    Free Member

    some people cannot handle the stuff and they very quickly learn not to smoke it at all

    i agree with most of your post but not this bit. 😕

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    legalsie them all the war on drugs does not work. Heroin is dirt cheap to supply to addicts and stops so much crime
    Done a variety on and off for about 25 years never been mentally ill and never known anyone go mentally ill either as a rsult of use. Never seen anyone get into a fight due to the drugs they were on other than alcohol.
    Loads of hysteria but look at the facts and alcohol is by far the worst. Implicated in 50% of violence offences and a similiar level of domestic violence.
    Like all drugs you get total wasters and street dwellers too high flying achievers who excell in their field. Other factors than the drug also influence how people act /behave you are not inadequate or mal adjusted just because you do drugs whatever the Daily Mail/middle england says on this.

    the vast majority[money] will go to serious and organised crime

    I agree another reason to legalise this is to deprive organised crime easy money

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    some people cannot handle the stuff and they very quickly learn not to smoke it at all

    Most people I know have at some point tried canabis, very few of them regularly smoke it now. I can’t think of a single one who has had an episode that has led them into the hands of the mental health authorities which can only lead me to conclude that most people who try it and do not get on with it, cease to do it.

    I am sure there are rare exceptions who keep on smoking even when it is sending them batty but they are few and far between in my experience and as stated before, may well have had a pre-existing propensity to mental ilness of one sort or another.

    fisha
    Free Member

    As someone who deals with people into drugs a fair amount, and also the victims of its aspects…

    a junkie with a good supply causes no problems, a junkie needing a fix mugs grannies to pay for their fix

    Wrong. If a junkie has a good supply, they’ll continue to use it … funded by? …. yup … petty crime, shoplifting, sneak-in theft, theft etc etc.

    As I said in a post a few weeks ago, drug users may be sick, but they are rarely criminals. Legalise the lot.

    Dont agree with that. Once you get past cannabis, I would say the probability of turning to criminal acts to fund the habit rises extemely rapidly.

    I suspect it would reduce addiction as all the rebel / glamour element would disappear.

    Heroin and similar doesn’t really work like that. Its all about chasing the first hit that you get from it … the first one being the ultimate, any further ones not being quite so good, so you try a bit more, still not so good as the 1st hit, try more …. get addicted , try more. Its not about the glamour … most junkies are in depravity. And the bulk of reasonable well healed population dont see it – sorry but you dont, unless you’re walking into the houses of these people then seeing them on the street is not the same as seeing them where they live/having to be in their personal space, its a different world. Its glamourised on the TV , its no where near glamour in real life.

    Weed never makes people violent, alcohol does. All weed will do is make you relaxed and want to eat a lot of junk food whilst watching films or playing xbox

    To an extent I would agree with that. I’d rather deal with a wasted drug user than an alcohol fuel person. Alcohol seems to have a higher proportion of making people aggressive and violent.

    BruceWee
    Full Member

    Having never ended up in hospital due to cannabis but had my head split open and concussion getting into fights on alcohol (all my own fault btw) I find cannabis much safer.

    retro83
    Free Member

    Seems to have worked for Portugal:

    Pop quiz: Which European country has the most liberal drug laws? (Hint: It’s not the Netherlands.)

    Although its capital is notorious among stoners and college kids for marijuana haze–filled “coffee shops,” Holland has never actually legalized cannabis — the Dutch simply don’t enforce their laws against the shops. The correct answer is Portugal, which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

    “Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success,” says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. “It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does.”

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html#ixzz11ZPeWgz6

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    Dont agree with that. Once you get past cannabis, I would say the probability of turning to criminal acts to fund the habit rises extemely rapidly.

    As a professional drug worker you should acknowledge that hard drugs are not a habit, they are an addiction, the distinction between them should not be understated. A habit is a behavioural trait, an addiction is a sickness. Behavioral traits are very easy to ignore, sickness needs to be treated.

    If we were to legalise all drugs the sickness could be effectively treated, addicts would suffer a stigma but not the threat of prison. Just treatment.

    yunki
    Free Member

    I smoked cannabis daily throughout my teens and early 20s with no ill effects..

    Then unexpectedly I suffered acute psychosis.. I was a complete cock as a youth though..

    Light your pipe
    Smoke your pipe
    The Almighty will give you peace
    Smoke and drink small sips of tea
    The Almighty will set you free
    From your tribulations
    Smoke and breathe deeply
    He who is jealous will know misery

    Heddaoua maxim

    so really.. many would agree.. dope only fries your brain if your brain needed frying anyway..

    legalise it I say

    nonk
    Free Member

    you would have more sickness though?

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    TJ and Torminallis have this thread pretty much sewn up, however…

    On a personal note.
    I smoked daily for almost 15 years, getting through at least a qtr a week, normally a lot more. During this time I got A-levels, a Degree, qualified professionally and find myself in a job where all my direct colleagues are 10+ yrs older than me. In short I’ve done alright.

    I’m in no doubt that I’d have done more without smoking though, and I’m very pleased that I no longer feel the need to smoke everyday. I am happier, more proactive, more sociable and generally just get a hell of a lot more done, both personally and professionally. As an side weed allowed my mind to work in a mathematical way that it’s incapable of without the drug, finding practical solutions to financial modelling problems that I can’t do without it. I can live without that though.

    I’ve had several friends who’ve been sectioned, a couple have been in care for 10 or so years now. All these people have 2 things in common. 1) They smoked, 2) They have a family history littered with mental illness.

    With many friends still being tokers I’m adamant that the people that can smoke heavily, long term, and be a success are an exception. Most people seem to become slightly dillusional rather than paranoid, but this is the effect of using something as an escape and as a crutch rather than facing up to issues. Anyone that gets drunk everynight for a decade is likely to exhibit the same traits.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    fisha – I meant a good supply as in a script that they are not paying for. Tehn there is no need to commit the crime – if they are stoned all the time they have no motive to commit crime.

    Dont agree with that. Once you get past cannabis, I would say the probability of turning to criminal acts to fund the habit rises extemely rapidly.

    But if its legal there will be no need to turn to crime to fund it? Legal heroin is much much cheaper than illegal.

    I suspect it would reduce addiction as all the rebel / glamour element would disappear.

    Is a part of the dutch / Swiss experience that this is an effect. Peopple don’t become addicted

    Its all about chasing the first hit that you get from it … the first one being the ultimate, any further ones not being quite so good, so you try a bit more,

    Is also true

    You need to separate the effects of prohibition from the effects of the drug

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    you would have more sickness though?

    Just an opinion I am afraid and not borne out by the facts. As stated in a previous post, Portugal legalised everything and it has been a resounding success.

    nonk
    Free Member

    at the end of the day it’s not legal now and every fekker smokes it so yes it may well be worth a run out.

    toys19
    Free Member

    My point is mate that these people will probably turn to other types of crime to fund their lifestyles and therefore we will have just displaced the criminals rather than actually reducing crime in total.

    Yeah I think this has all been answered by TJ above, you are talking about dealers and suppliers yes this may be true but at least they won’t be able to sell cannabis as the tokers will buy it from the corner shop instead. And we get lots of tax. Deficit down…

    soobalias
    Free Member

    _tom_ – Member
    Weed never makes people violent, alcohol does. All weed will do is make you relaxed and want to eat a lot of junk food whilst watching films or playing xbox

    sorry thats wrong. In most cases, people under the influence of weed are not violent or aggressive. However do not underestimate the severity or duration of the comedown/stoneover more noticable in crops grown using chemical fertilizers. The effect is still present in organic weed, but less so.

    anyone who thinks that there is no link between pot and crime (mugging, burgulary, bike theft) is also living with their head in the clouds. Similarly the link between one illegal drug and the next is a lot closer than some areas of society would like you to believe.

    legalise it.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    Would probably help with housing to as thousands of illegal growing places would get returned to market (presumably large greenhouses would be more economic once legalised).

    They’d need to do something about improving drug-driving detection though (and whether limits would need to be set).

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    FuzzyWuzzy – Member
    They’d need to do something about improving drug-driving detection though (and whether limits would need to be set).

    Thats an interesting one.

    Cannabis can be detected in your body for weeks. Only a very little research has been done on cannabis and driving. Tests for “driving while impaired” are very difficult to do and prove

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    Its all about chasing the first hit that you get from it … the first one being the ultimate, any further ones not being quite so good, so you try a bit more

    This I think is misleading, people don’t smoke crack every day to try and get the same hit as they got the first time, they do it because they like crack. Peoples bodies develop a resistance to drugs and they then do increasingly large doses till they find an equilibrium where they are consuming enough to keep them happy but not enough to increase their tolerance, no matter how expensive (or fatal) that may be.

    To suggest that their entire drug taking career is defined by that first hit and afterwards is largely a miserable drive to re-experience that hit is incorrect and is part of the propaganda that is used to persuade children not to start it in the first place. Which I suppose is not a bad thing. But it cannot be used as an argument as to why people get addicted because if every hit was a good as the first, they would get addicted even more easily.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    anyone who thinks that there is no link between pot and crime (mugging, burgulary, bike theft) is also living with their head in the clouds. Similarly the link between one illegal drug and the next is a lot closer that some areas of society would like you to believe.

    Got any evidence for either of those? My experience is very different.

    I worked in the criminal justice sytem for a bit.

    I saw hundreds of junkies come in for petty crime, hundreds of drunks for violence and public disorder, never saw a pothead for anything but possession and they didn’t give any trouble and it was only one or two

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    nonk – Member

    some people cannot handle the stuff and they very quickly learn not to smoke it at all

    i agree with most of your post but not this bit.

    i’m one. can’t stand the stuff.

    qwerty
    Free Member

    people don’t smoke crack every day to try and get the same hit as they got the first time, they do it because they like crack

    “people” may smoke crack cos they like it BUT crackheads smoke it cos they HAVE to, and will do whatever it takes, to take the shortest route to smoking the next high, then it all starts over again

    i don’t think any of the crackheads i’ve met actually “like” the crack, its their demise

    soobalias
    Free Member

    yes actually TJ im living with one.
    i wont list the stolen property, or point the finger of blame for two ‘burgularys’ or post pics of smashed doors/windows electronic goods

    fisha
    Free Member

    A habit is a behavioural trait, an addiction is a sickness. Behavioral traits are very easy to ignore, sickness needs to be treated.

    Treated yes, but not pandered too. Sorry, but my sympathy for some people doesn’t run all that far in this game. There are a lot of people out there who are playing the system knowingly ( which includes the likes of yourself ) … and using their ‘sickness’ as an habitual trump card. We are too soft on them in terms of holding them to their treatment plan. Too many times people start going down the path of treatment ( and credit where its due ) , deliberately wander off it, then give it the boo-hoo woe is me pish and they get all the nice things back again.

    The amount of money that gets spent on junkies, to which the junkies are not held accountable for is quite frankly disgusting. I’m not saying that treatment should be withdrawn, more that treatment should be enforced.

    I meant a good supply as in a script that they are not paying for. Tehn there is no need to commit the crime – if they are stoned all the time they have no motive to commit crime.

    TJ – fair point. I see where you’re coming from for that one.

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    It is also of note that the CIA is one of the largest drug suppiers in the world, before the invasion of Afghanistan there was no heroin production at all, since the invasion Afghanistan has reclaimed its place as the biggest supplier of heroin in the world.

    So when you argue that the drug trade sustains organised crime, I think you will find that in many cases organised crime funds many of the murkier activities of our Western governments. Legalising stands to hurt them the most which is why they wil not do it. You didn’t really think that it was to do with mental health did you?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Ta fisha – its a pragmatic viewpoint. Give them the smack they want and then they won’t bother us. No crime, no health issues from dirty supplies, they can sit around gouching and being dull all day. Society ends up with less crime and richer. Win win

    Torminalis
    Free Member

    i don’t think any of the crackheads i’ve met actually “like” the crack, its their demise

    Fair point, but I think it is disingenuous to say that their entire crack hobby is spent miserably trying to chase that first hit.

    which includes the likes of yourself

    Untrue I am afraid, I have never done hard drugs and require no treatment. Does somone who likes a glass of wine with a meal require help? Doubtful.

    I’m not saying that treatment should be withdrawn, more that treatment should be enforced.

    I absolutely agree, for those that have a negative effect on society and lack the moral fortitude to behave responsibly, treatment should be enforced. Not for the crime of being high, but for the crime they actually committed, with succesful treatment being a precondition to their punishment.

    philconsequence
    Free Member

    some interesting views… not enough fighting yet though… where’s the “my son smoked and now he’s not my son; i say kill all users and their babies”

    or

    “i’m so stoned right now i agree with TJ AND the computer’s much more shiney than before, i like shiney things, things is a funny word isnt it? haha if you say “isnt it” quickly it sounds like “tit””

    responses?!?!?

    j_me
    Free Member

    Elfinsafety
    Free Member

    I’ve done all sorts, me, and I would just like to point out that I am completely 100% sane.

    In fact, it’s youse lot what are mad.

    Why are you looking at me? Stop looking at me! Stop talking about me!

    Want to go back to my room now please.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 127 total)

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