Legal advice / sale of goods act - being told "i have accepted the goods"

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Legal advice / sale of goods act - being told "i have accepted the goods"

24 posts & 16 voices | Started 6 months ago by jontawn | Latest reply from chris_jh

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jontawn - Member

Hi All,

A bit of a weird one (for me) my brother's laptop died, seems there is a motherboard fault causing it not to switch on / POST with any hard drive connected.

it's under 3 years old and cost approx £500.

Spoke to the place of purchase who advised "you have accepted the goods, it has a 1yr guarantee there is nothing else we can do for you, sir."

I'm the techy trying to help my bro' sort out his creamed laptop, but a little unsure as to what his actual rights are.

AFAIK, as it's under 5yrs old, it should be classed as 'not of satisfactory quality' or 'not fit for purpose' and I am making a claim for repair under the sale of goods act - not warranty as it is not of satisfactory quality.

Any helpful thoughts or comments would be most appreciated.

thanks,
JT

Posted 6 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

consumerdirect is the place to look, I think.

Posted 6 months ago #
cardo - Member

Is it out of the 1 year guarantee?

Posted 6 months ago #
clubber - Member

3 years old - you'll struggle to get anything back on that.

At a basic level, 1 year is covered, 2 can be argued.

EDIT - apparently it may be different for electrical...

Posted 6 months ago #
MSP - Member

Under 2 years any fault not caused by misuse or damage should be covered under warranty.

iirc after 2 years up to 6 years there should be a gradual decline in the remedial work offered under warranty and a rise in the amount expected by the consumer to pay for remedial work, however its a legal minefield and in practice you have a 2 year warranty.

Posted 6 months ago #
andyrallye - Member

Statutory rights for ANY electrical goods is 5 years.
The item is deemed not fit for the purpose it was sold for.
Btw, this includes toasters, kettles, right up to B&O stereo's etc.

Posted 6 months ago #
crankboy - Member

You are being told we think if we talk rubbish you will go away. Accepting the goods means you can only get them repaired at their expense not a full refund , Your argument is that the goods are not fit for the purpose and you want a full refund if they then offer to repair at their expense you may need to consider your position if you get no joy at all your local small claims court is the place to go. ( all advise based on law as at 1986 and bits I've noticed since)

Warranties and guarantees do not affect your statutory right to receive an item that is fit for its purpose.

Posted 6 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

andy - where do you get that from?

My understanding is (in general) up to six month old you rights are fairly absolute and its up to the retailer to show that it was not a manufacturing fault. Over 6 month you would have to show it a manufacturing fault to get the replace / repair / refund your choice)

At three years old you will find it hard to make a claim under sale of goods act. You would have to show that it was a manufacturing fault and even then you would only get a partial refund as yo have had 3 yrs usage which would be a significant part of the computers life.

consumers direct is the website to go for advice but i wouldn't hink your chances are high

try the manufacture directly for a goodwill repair?

Posted 6 months ago #
jontawn - Member

Cheers so far.

just to clarify the laptop is: 2 years, 8 months, 15 days old from date of purchase.

JT

Posted 6 months ago #
andyrallye - Member

TJ, basically it's part of the durability clause in the satisfactory quality section of SoGA.

The terms say that a product should last as long as a reasonable person would expect.
A bit grey I know.
However it takes into account price paid, original condition etc.
So a brand new item would be expected to last longer than a shop soiled ex-display item and so on.

The general concensus is that 5 years is about right for electrical goods. (This is from a training course I've recently been on run by a specialist company. One of the examples given was his own top end stereo. He did actually give the exact details of how he succesfully got an upgraded (original no longer available) replacement stereo after 4 1/2 years, however the paperwork's at home.)
I believe the training company was 888 training or something similar.

Certainly a £500 laptop should last more than a couple of years.

Posted 6 months ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

The general concensus is that 5 years is about right for electrical goods.

What, all of them? Irrespective of what the mfrs warranty may be or the average life-cycle of laptops? And how does that square with the usual corporate write down policies where IT hardware is usually 100% written down in much less time?

Posted 6 months ago #
highclimber - Member

Manufacturers warranties are not worth the paper they're written on. your rights under SoGA trump them. You have an item you expected to last longer than the 2 years 8.5 months you've had from it. I would expect any laptop I bought new to last at least 3 years if well looked after.

I would ask them to consider a repair or replacement at their cost one more time and if they don't come back with a satisfactory response, threaten to inform trading standards.

Posted 6 months ago #
Cougar - Member

This is from a training course I've recently been on run by a specialist company.

What do they specialise in? I'm going out on a limb and guessing it's not "legal advice."

Posted 6 months ago #
Cougar - Member

you have accepted the goods

This is factually correct but utterly irrelevant.

it has a 1yr guarantee there is nothing else we can do for you

Their warranty is in addition to your statutory rights, not instead of them. That's what 'statutory' means. Your statutory guarantee on all consumer goods is two years (thanks to a handy EU directive).

Outside of two years, we're back to the Sale of Goods Act. Goods have to be "as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality." You would have to argue that it's reasonable to expect a laptop to last longer than two years, eight months, or that the fault was inherent from new (good luck with that one). You can make a claim up six years after purchase, but the older the goods the more difficult it'll be to prove.

I suspect your best course of action would be to contact the manufacturer to see if they'd fix it out of goodwill (as someone else suggested); given the attitude of the supplier, you'd probably be looking at a Small Claims Court route to get anywhere there. I'd talk to the CAB first, if you want to do that.

Posted 6 months ago #
Singlespeed_Shep - Member

Certainly a £500 laptop should last more than a couple of years.

If properly maintained. I know plenty of people that have destroyed laptops in less than two years use for hammering games and the net with no maintenance and virus protection.

If it gets to the point of small claims court, Look into how much a repair centre would charge. If they can fix it for you for small sum in relation to the hassle of small claims court then i'd seriously consider it.

Posted 6 months ago #
highclimber - Member

I suspect your best course of action would be to contact the manufacturer to see if they'd fix it out of goodwill (as someone else suggested);

I would be asking the retailer to do this on your behalf as your contract is with them, not the manufacturer

Posted 6 months ago #
Cougar - Member

I would be asking the retailer to do this on your behalf as your contract is with them, not the manufacturer

Under normal warranty situations that's correct. However, if they've told him to do one already, the chances of them doing that for him is slim (given that it could be construed as accepting liability if they did).

Whilst they arguably should be doing it, contacting the manufacturer directly is more likely to yield positive results (assuming the primary goal here is a working laptop rather than a consumer rights crusade).

IMHO, IANAL, WGAF etc.

Posted 6 months ago #
piedi di formaggio - Member

My next step would be to write to them (as high up the chain as I could find a name / address for) and send it recorded delivery (or something else that confirms they received it) stating SOGA and what you wish them to do and what & when your next actions will be.

Posted 6 months ago #
chris_jh - Member

You need to get an engineers report from a computer repair shop saying it was manufacturing fault that caused it. I got a new ps3 which was 3 years old using the SOGA which goes up to 6 years from date of purchase.

Posted 6 months ago #
jontawn - Member

Chris_jh, was that via the retailer or Sony?

Thanks again chaps ...

JT

Posted 6 months ago #
sugdenr - Member

As said the 1yr is irrlevant that is manufacturer. the SOGSA Regulations dont give a period, just basically that the quality should be such that something last for a reasonable period.

Upto 6 months the presumption (burden of proof) is that its was duff and manufacturer must prove it was you that broke it. After 6 months you have to prove that it was defective and you didnt break it.

Despite we have all become used to high quality, its a sensitive piece of electronic equipment that you turn on and off (thermal cycling of the m/board which by nature can run hot enough to burn you) the MTBF of most things are massively affected by how often you cycle them (eg cars quoted 80% wear at startup), bang around on your back communting on your singlespeed, drop whilst its switched on, use in the bath etc.

Its not how long you expected it to last, its ultimately how long any judge thinks is reasonable. It lasted 'nearly' 3 yrs, good luck arguing that one.

Having said that, dash a letter off to Sony being firm but polite and going on about how well you treated it (did he?) and how dissapointed you are at their product quality and thought Sony were better than that.

Or, fill out an N1 and send it to them with a letter asking if they prefer to fix it for you as a goodwill gesture or have to pay a lawyer to defend your claim in your local small claims court and risk loosing.

I usually do the first, then the 2nd if that doesnt work.

Posted 6 months ago #
grantway - Member

Posted 6 months ago #
jontawn - Member

Hi All,

We got a quote of £75 for a replacement motherboard, so one has been ordered. Putting a price on time, letter writing, the aggro of it and the cost of the small claims court, just coughing up for a new board seems to be the easiest of options.

While this achieves little in terms of defending our rights as consumers and what a retailer is to be accountable for, as stated above, the aim of the game is to get his laptop sorted out and it seems this is a good solution.

As always, thanks for your thoughts and comments, STW is always good for an answer!

cheers,
JT

Posted 6 months ago #
chris_jh - Member

sorry for the late reply - it was the retailer. You get the money
back for the engineers report, but it is a lot of hassle for £75.

Posted 6 months ago #

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