Dad strength? The kind of strength you develop carrying two kids up stairs?

Quite possibly. We only have cats so I’m missing out on a whole load of training every night!

How many do you have?

With a combined weight of 9kg, not enough to train with!

If you look up MMA bodyweight conditioning workouts that will give you lots of variations on squats. For example, 150 ‘normal’ squats (hands on head and making sure to get thighs parallel with ground) plus 150 hindu squats every other night. Maybe add in some lunges and jump squats for good measure. You’ll definitely feel stronger on the bike IME.

molgrips – Member

40s because that’s how big the nearest quiet hill is

How much rest in your 5x5s?

1 per minute for 5 minutes then 5 minutes rest then repeat.

It’s nice to know that I’m at the game changer level for all the exercises in that table up there. Or more accurately was there until i **** my knee.

For example, 150 ‘normal’ squats (hands on head and making sure to get thighs parallel with ground) plus 150 hindu squats every other night. Maybe add in some lunges and jump squats for good measure.

Made me think of this:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/too-much-exercise-bad-for-you

Edit:
Or more accurately was there until i **** my knee.

I refer you to my earlier post.
😐

It’s nice to know that I’m at the game changer level for all the exercises in that table up there. Or more accurately was there until i **** my knee.

well that certainly changed the game 🙁

I wonder what the difference is between sprinting up a hill and sprinting on flat, on the bike…

You end up pedalling faster on the flat of course – this presumably helps you adapt to activate your muscles more quickly…

Solo point taken and each to their own on the actual number of reps. I don’t know if anyone died prematurely from squats though – maybe walk a bit funny for a couple of days after the first couple of sessions…

I don’t know if anyone died prematurely from squats though

There are some great vids of Youtube of people passing out and falling over immediately after a front squat, a few of them falling right into squat stands / weight racks….

well that certainly changed the game

It certainly did. 🙁

I refer you to my earlier post.

My knee injury had bugger all to do with lifting weights. It was a high velocity closed chain hyperextension and twisting injury doing tae kwon do and moving away from someone who I had just kicked in the head.

stick_man – Member

Solo point taken

It’s not personal, so please don’t feel offended. I’m not singling anyone out. I’m just sometimes amazed at how much exercise some folk get up to. However, in the great scheme of things, they’re hardly a danger to wider society, but rather, at worst, just an occassional visitor to A&E.

falling over immediately after a front squat, a few of them falling right into squat stands / weight racks….
Yeasch!

after re reading your post Molgrips, some of the body weight movements and reps should help.

If you can get some dumbells for home, usual now you will see a lot cheap…bought for xmas fat loss sold in the new year…..

I think experts are great and certainly we can learn loads but healthy questioning is helpful nay essential to understand…….did Dan John not say he had hip replacement at 56/7 …..no idea why and not making the correlation to squatting and heavy weights….joints wear out in all sports people quicker.

Point is I suppose for me be sensible, start slow, learn the form and technique, add reps, look for functionality for your sport add weight or resistance and forget the standards….. oh and stretch!

joints wear out in all sports people quicker.

Rubbish.

I think experts are great and certainly we can learn loads but healthy questioning is helpful nay essential to understand…….did Dan John not say he had hip replacement at 56/7 …..no idea why and not making the correlation to squatting and heavy weights

Then why on earth mention it. Could easily have been a congenital condition, pretty common reason for hip replacements.

Break your hill sprints into 3 segments.

10s,20s then 40s

and repeat.

Second the single leg squats too.

What’s the point of it Mol? Races aren’t just a 40s sprint up a steep climb (though much over 10 seconds is too long to be called a sprint IMO). If it’s for getting better at XC MTB then it needs to be balanced with all the other stuff you need. I think I’d only be looking to address it if I was getting thrashed up the short steep stuff but fine elsewhere. I’d probably still tackle it as an endurance issue (and definitely look at my weight too.)

Edit… only weights work I’d be considering really is core stuff to make sure I can stay as stable as possible over the course of the climb and not be rocking and rolling.

XC Racing is all about power to weight on a hilly course. I used to diet down to about 67kg as that was much easier than trying to gain 10% power!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txCP2JV03yE[/video]

Turkish get up is another great one for core (liam doing this at 58 secs)

Turkish get up is another great one for core (liam doing this at 58 secs)

Typical STWer doing turkish get up…

What’s the point of it Mol? Races aren’t just a 40s sprint up a steep climb

Yeah of course, but they often contain lots of 40s sprint climbs. And longer ones. And as is rather obvious, I will also be training for longer efforts too 🙂

As for diet.. well.. let’s not start on that 🙂

Anyway just back from a road ride and tried some flat out sprints – peaked at 900W which I haven’t seen for a long time. Not bad for tired legs.

Then why on earth mention it. Could easily have been a congenital condition, pretty common reason for hip replacements.

There is a lot of suggestion that basically squats are bad, hence the development of the need for ‘correct’ technique, and the …look at a baby pick something up and there you will see the perfect technique’ is great but they have not added X kilos on a steel bar and are trying to squat to deep, with alack of core muscle and flexibility, to impress there mates in the gym and so on. I would suggest repetition has lead to a hip replacement, hard to say and I agree no ideas of family history though I think he does talk of lineage and genetics, even so I would suggest repetitions in motion lead to joint wear. So look at prehistoric skeletons, many females through grinding corn in a kneeling position hour on hour had terrible joint wear. Similarly with sports players there is a greater risk to joint wear, some motions that we were not, as humans designed to deal with.

Experts in the strength industry told us Nautilus weight machines were the future as they isolated the position of the user to maximise safe use and develop strength….fast forward a decade or two and free weights with Olympic lifting are the best things as they develop balance and strength, using weight machines are not always that great say experts. Again question the ‘experts’.

So I mention it as person x in the street or the sofa, who is starting out back to the gym thinks they can hit the ‘standards’ or they should be looking at the standards to start with is not the best starting place. Scaleability is important and sensibility, what one can do to another often is irrelevant as we all have different starting places and then we can develop to what suits the individuals bodies and needs best, adaptability in training. This can lead to alternative exercises and methods.

AS I said all good debate and just an alternative view.

Experts in the strength industry told us Nautilus weight machines were the future as they isolated the position of the user to maximise safe use and develop strength….fast forward a decade or two and free weights with Olympic lifting are the best things as they develop balance and strength, using weight machines are not always that great say experts. Again question the ‘experts’.

What a load of old nonsense.

Free weights, squats, DLs and OLs were the mainstay of weight training for many decades. Then the manufactures of fitness machines and gym managers (not experts) realised that with isolation machines they could completely dumb down gyms and remove the experienced and knowledgeable staff and replace them with young kids who have been on a 6 week PT course. Gyms loved this a their running costs went down as more people could access “weight training” without needing to understand posture, or core strength or breathing or any of the basics.

Fast forward to the present and mainly thanks to Crossfit, people are realising what all Strength and Conditioning coaches have always known, isolation machines are pretty rubbish (with the exception of rehab work) and free weights and full body exercises (Squats & DLs) are the best method for strength and conditioning training.

Free weights and platforms take up a lot of gym space, need proper instruction, have a large learning curve, and more potential for injuries*, hence mainstreams gyms don’t like them, although they are starting to appear more and more.

*e.g. I dropped a 60kg bar on my head only last week in a rather poor attempt at a Snatch, which resulted in a large pool of blood on the gym floor….

So.. Should I not go into a hotel gym and do (light) squats based on reading and watching youtube vids? Obviously I would be taking care and being aware of injury potential as I am cautious and not over excited by these things..

Again I was trying to question who ‘experts’ are…….and what makes an expert.

Lots of athletes and experts have been paid to promote a brand or idea and a lot did in the expansion of the gyms and I agree with you it was about driving the cost down and increasing profitability, lifestyle and narcissism of the 80’s. People in there masses believed this was the future and bought into through experts and media exposure…end of the old gyms with metal plates boxing rings and sweat stained floors and welcome to air con. glazed gyms where you could look out on the fresh air and world in safety.

As for Crossfit…well there is another view to the phenomenon it is no different to the same explosion in the leisure centre gyms I have described…Crossfit has

been aggressively marketed and targeted as a business
it an affiliated franchise model
staff can become coaches after a paid weekend away
Olympic lifting is not designed for amrap and RX plus
Rest and recuperation not Uncle Rhabdo or this fine fellow

are necessarily the best for muscle development
poor form leads to injuries, crossfit WODs do lead folk to poor form and more injuries occur
Crossfit has in some boxes has become too macho and forgotten scalability of alternatives exercises

Crossfit brand versus Cross training is really fascinating, also did the founder Glassman not take/ took a a lot from Mark Twight allegedly….but Twight (300 fame trainer but a alpinist) felt that Crossfit was too broad and ineffective and looked at individual target based programmes on the needs and requirements of the individual.

So.. Should I not go into a hotel gym and do (light) squats based on reading and watching youtube vids? Obviously I would be taking care and being aware of injury potential as I am cautious and not over excited by these things..

Ideally you want someone in the know to help you start as it takes a while to become familiar with your hip and back position when squatting. Front squats are much better to start with although they are tougher than back squats (no big deal, just lower weights) and some people struggle with shoulder mobility in the front rack position. If you can’t manage the front rack position you can squat with the bar atop folded arms.

A good book on all this is Starting Strength: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/starting-strength-review-of-mark-rippetoes-barbell-bible.html

With squats the key things are
1) Braced core, huge deep breath in at the top before lowering
2) Not leaning too far forward, staying upright with weight through the heels
3) Not going too deep too soon, you need to be able to maintain a neutral lower back through the range of motion (this really needs someone else to watch you)
4) Not going too heavy too soon, technique over weight every time

NB The Dad Strength Article: http://danjohn.net/the-overhead-squat-article/

Molgrips, apologies, personally yes I would be in the hotel gym with some dumbbells doing

squats
lunges
core exercises….
calf raises
some flexibity exercise… no weights

swiss ball are useful for exercises and stretching.

Good luck

then build up the weight if you need to and want to.

felt that Crossfit was too broad and ineffective and looked at individual target based programmes on the needs and requirements of the individual.

Good article on this by Mark Rippetoe (author of the barbell bible, Starting Strength): http://www.t-nation.com/training/crossfit-the-good-bad-and-the-ugly

Again I was trying to question who ‘experts’ are…….and what makes an expert.

Easy one to answer, degree in sports science as a basis then an apprenticeship as a SCC, followed by accreditation by the relevant SCC body. BWL qualifications or national equivalent. Then a few years training at Elite Athlete level, e.g. Olympic Development squads. All my coaches have met all these and more.

Anything less and they’re not an expert.

It is a good article especially

exercise versus training

stress and adaptation

From Gym Jones

The Gym Jones Philosophy: 10 Basic Tenets

1. The mind is primary

2. Outcome based training (train for an objective)

3. Functional training (high degree of transfer ability)

4. Movements not muscles (transferable training doesn’t isolate muscles)

5. Power-to-weight ratio (must carry the engine)

6. Train all energy systems (emphasize the important but not at the expense of others)

7. Training is preparation for the real thing (train FOR something)

8. The mind is primary II (eat for an objective)

9. Nutrition is the foundation (eat for an objective)

10. Recovery is more than 50% of the process

also

1 . Don’t train to muscle failure 2 . Intensity isn’t usually the answer 3 . Don’t rely on circuits 4 . Don’t rely on stopwatches

This was a big starting from what Cross-fit instructs . Twight said , “You can’t throw individuals into intensity that rapidly .”

All I suggest works for a lot of folk who go to work out

I personally like the idea of functional gyms allowing people to train to there abilities and allow specific progression.

Just need to book mark this thread.

Problem with front and overhead squats for ‘normal’ people is that we lack the basic flexibility or its more a case of ‘we have lost’ the basic flexibility.

I can squat 1.5bw x4 at the moment but I find front squat the .5bw very difficult

What can you recommend to get the flexibility back to progress to a OH/Front squat?

Earl – yoga

I’m doing hill sprints on the bike which take about 40s or so (with a kick at the end) and I go all out, so I feel sick and in pain at the end. But I still feel somehow like I can’t sprint as hard as I feel I should be able to. Almost as if I can’t activate the muscles or something.

40 seconds is a long interval for 10/10 absolutely on the nail sprints, you only buffer lactic or whatever to around 20 seconds, so the second half of the interval will kill you regardless of leg strength – if you expect to be able to sprint flat out for 40 seconds and feel good to the end, you’re being unrealistic I think. Also a session like that is going to be quite hard to recover from, so I wouldn’t be surprised if your legs feel heavy for a few days afterwards.

I’d be doing 30 seconds sprints – start with 20-second ones for a few weeks maybe – and genuinely flat out for the whole effort and maybe a set of 10-second phosphate sprints once a week as well.

What can you recommend to get the flexibility back to progress to a OH/Front squat?

Well, that depends.

What’s your specific flexibility problem?

Most folk can’t bend their ankles sufficiently, which ends up putting knees back, arse back, and torso tilted well forward, consequently the bar falls off position.

But you may also be lacking hip flexibility as well.

Oh, and then for overhead squats, shoulder flexibility required for the low position is not always there.

So in short, lots of

ankle stretches
leg stretches focussing on hip & glute area rather than calf & quad
shoulder stretches

YMMV

I can squat 1.5bw x4 at the moment

ATG?

if not, theres something to work on right away

Why do people insist on telling people to stretch? There is no high quality evidence to support stretching. How about you simply do your weighted exercises through full range rather than thinking you can lift hunners but only in the middle range.

There is no high quality evidence to support stretching.

Stretching for what purpose?

Something to do with being able to increase range-of-motion without weight before trying it with weight, I expect.

Stretching for whichever purpose you feel the need to stretch for.

I have to say I get confused with cycling fitness/ leg strength .I started to doing squats and presses last year but stopped as I was getting knee pain when riding ,not sure what’s the best way-just get fit by cycling or use other means.does it depend on how often you ride or are there other factors ? I’m an old gadger at 60 but have ridden for yonks.