I’m doing hill sprints on the bike which take about 40s or so (with a kick at the end) and I go all out, so I feel sick and in pain at the end. But I still feel somehow like I can’t sprint as hard as I feel I should be able to. Almost as if I can’t activate the muscles or something.

So is there any point in trying to develop absolute maximal sprint power? I feel as if it would make longer sprints easier/faster, but I have no idea really.

So I was thinking – maybe really short sprints like 10s or so; or maybe squats or some kind of heavy weight or something.. Is that something that cyclists do? Or am I talking arse as usual?

Do cyclists squat?

Yip get some squats and deadlifts done.

Goblet squats are a personal favourite of mine.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJHvu_hC9rg[/video]
If only to freak out other people at the gym…

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZeV6W1VEoM&spfreload=10[/video]

I like goblet squats, I do them with 23kg but I think a heavier kettlebell with a normal squat might be better.. dunno.. I think I could do more. Last time I was in a hotel gym there were 25kg dumbbells and I did squats with one in each hand. Easy compared to the goblet squats.

I could probably persuade my kids to let me carry both of them upstairs repeatedly, they love that. 48kg between them 🙂

Ride singlespeed in an inappropriately high gear; I did 12 x .5k climbs on Sunday, this weekend I’ll aim for 15. After that I’ll be dropping the ratio for more of a speedy climb instead of grim gurning.

I also do lots of box jumps, squat jumps & pistol squats in the week.

I’ve spent the last couple of months doing squats and deadlifts twice a week + some low stroke rate rowing on the Concept 2. It seems to have made a big difference to my leg power on the mountain bike.

You do these deadlifts in a gym? Most hotel places don’t seem to have suitable gear.

Not many hotels have decent free weights, I use the local sports centre gym for mine.
You can try bodyweight exercises. One legged squats are pretty effective I’ve found.

Why 40s sprints? What are you training for?

Friel suggested a 10s sprint (I think), 5 x 5 of those has me on the floor.

40s because that’s how big the nearest quiet hill is 🙂

How much rest in your 5x5s?

Friel suggested a 10s sprint (I think), 5 x 5 of those has me on the floor.

I’ve suffered the grimness of tabata running many times; tried it once on a spinning bike and couldn’t do the 2nd sprint :/

Fartlek

I would say your body is used to operating at a constant pace but not so good at the short intense bursts. Fartlek will help with that, we sued to train like that when I was playing reasonable level sport. Lots of weights will give you power (good) but you need to improve your fast twitch muscle too and your bodies ability to sustain sharp bursts.

Do cyclists squat?

Hoy not even trying there. IIRC he had a 250kg max.

If you’re short on kit, pistols are good. If they’re too easy, do them with a couple of dbs or kettlebells. Aussie track team used one leg squats quite extensively I think.

I used to do the old school favourite of 20 rep squats done in rep/pause style. Set length (2 minutes or thereabouts) works out at a good time to help with hill sprint efforts. If you can work up to something like BW x 1.5 for 20 reps, you will laugh in the face of a short hill sprint.

Googled pistol squats – they look like a fantastic hotel room exercise. Although adding 50% of my bodyweight in a hotel room won’t be easy 🙂

Leg strength is aided or supported by core exercises……abs and lower back so you need to add these in.

Leg strength

Squats with a barbell or dumbbells by the side
Lunges, walking or stationary
Leg Press…machine
Calf Extensions…..
ab exercises….crunches, birddog, plank, google ab exercises
hip flexibity exercises

Box jumps as above
Jumping from a standstill to a point
squat and the jump up
burpess

all of these with body weight

then add
hill climb intervals
fartlek
intervals 20 secs flat out and then 20 secs rest

as with all weights form over weight, do the exercise correctly so no injuries

Last summer I did a few weeks of force intervals (low cadence, high gear) along with starting a core strength regime (from Tom Danielson’s Core Advantage book). I found myself able to push a couple of gears harder as well as being able to spend longer before shifting down. Felt pretty awesome on the hills. Strava says I was getting faster.

My entrirely subjective feeling is that the core exercises had more effect than the force intervals – I could just feel more of my body going into each pedal stroke.

The exercises in the book I mentioned are designed to be hotel-room-friendly (no equipment required) and are cycling specific so if you don’t already have some kind of core routine then it might be worth a look.

According to Dan John (a personal favourite coach), strength standards are:

For Men:
Push
Expected = Bodyweight bench press
Game-changer = Bodyweight bench press for 15 reps
Pull
Expected = 5 pullups
Game-changer = 15 pullups
Hinge
Expected = Bodyweight to 150% bodyweight deadlift
Game-changer = Double-bodyweight deadlift
Squat
Expected = Bodyweight squat
Game-changer = Bodyweight squat for 15 reps
Loaded Carry
Expected = Farmer walk with total bodyweight (half per hand)
Game-changer =Bodyweight per hand
Getup
One left and right, done with a half-filled cup of water

Strength Standards…Sleepless in Seattle

I can manage all the expected targets.

Hmm, good set of goals there ^^^.

Just looking at that, I am nearly at expected for the press, at expected for back squat, but ahead on dead lift and pull ups (edging for game changers on both as it happens).

I love Crossfit.

My bench press is **** rubbish! Just hitting “expected”.

My current 2015 targets are bodyweight overhead squats and 2xBW Deadlift (can do 1.5 for reps at the moment).

I don’t have heavy enough dumbbells for the farmers walk, although last time I was in a gym which did have, I could do 1/2 BW in each hand for 30m.

My current 2015 targets are bodyweight overhead squats and 2xBW Deadlift (can do 1.5 for reps at the moment).

What’s your current max on OH squat?

sorry not convinced by any of that or some of the website…………….

the standards make some assumptions, factors of age and previous injuries and so on not to mention correct form and technique

ever seen someone ‘inch worm’ a deadlift? yes they are hitting the standard but at what cost.

Could Froome Contador/Wiggo meet those standards? There is something to be address relating sports specific functionality.

Could Froome Contador/Wiggo meet those standards?

No, but I reckon Hoy could (or could have).

Horses for courses.

What’s your current max on OH squat?

3x60kg (arse to grass) but it’s limited as much by stability as actual glute strength at the moment.

sorry not convinced by any of that or some of the website…………….

fair enough. Dan John is very good though, I’ve read a lot of his books, seen his DVDs and he is a very good coach.

Most of his work is with collegiate athletes rather than any old bloke off the street (he is an athletics coach at a Uni in Utah and retired competitive Olympic Lifter / discuss thrower). However, I’m 44, not an athlete in any real sense of the word, and can meet all the ‘expected’ so they’re not that OTT.

bodyweight overhead squats and 2xBW Deadlift

Sheesh. Shows how we’re all strong in different ways!
I can dead 1.5x BW for 10, but a BW OH squat? That’s 92kg for me.

Googled pistol squats – they look like a fantastic hotel room exercise. Although adding 50% of my bodyweight in a hotel room won’t be easy

It’ll be a while til you can add any weight.

Or do them without falling over

Could Froome Contador/Wiggo meet those standards?
No, but I reckon Hoy could

And I should have clarified – I’m talking about XC MTB racing, really. That’s what I aspire to. Not mountain marathons, and not track. Although I may want to do more track later in life 🙂

Or do them without falling over

Hey I just did one now to try it out, and didn’t fall over. It was hard mind.

but a BW OH squat?

I’m 80kg.

The OH Squat requires much more stability / balance than a normal squat so it’s a very different exercise, but a real test of all over strength rather than raw glute / quad strength.

A good pre-cursor to doing any attempts is to load a bar with more than you’re going to squat, and dip jump/press it over head, hold it locked out and then slowly walk 5m with the bar in the OH position. That really pre-loads all the muscles and makes OH squats a lot easier.

E.g. I’d do 65/70 overhead walk before trying a set of 60 OH squats.

3x60kg is a fair effort. What’s BW? 80kg?

FWIW I got up to 85kg snatch without any coaching but don’t really have the time to do olympic training justice. Its just too much skill to learn, whilst keeping the regular strength training going at the same time. I’d pretty much stalled at that weight and would need my technique fixing to go much of any further. And I didn’t quite manage BW overhead squat though (~95kg) although I might put that back them back on the routine. I always did the olys first then moved on to overhead squats and some kind of press, followed up by regular back squats. Skill first moving to plain strength last.

TBH I currently find better value in regular (relatively low skill) freeweight lifts with the limited time I have down the gym. If I had double the time I’d love to keep up the olys.

Although I may want to do more track later in life

Start squatting now then, you need to get to 2.5x BW to catch up with Chris Hoy!

I can read/see he is strength throwing coach and I have seen articles from him in the past re Crossfit and Olympic weightlifting, I have no doubt he is a articulate coach good points on body postion especially on kettlebells and squats.

Strength is variable on age and injuries plus other variables especially flexibility……….BW OH squat is a great example.

In the dangerous world of the internet I will give the example of a late 40 yrs male, he could do press up especially elevated easily and amrap massively could no way bench press his body weight due to nerve damage he was about 95kgs anything upto 60 or 70kg again massive reps and okay.

Strength standards are okay but it is horses for courses, sport functionality and lots of cross over in terms of strength for the sport…….throwing is different to cycling….. good discussion though.

Problem is with the squats – don’t want to sign up to a gym, don’t want to buy (or have room for) my own weights. KBs I have, that’s about it.

OH squat is a great exercise for sure, I can’t think of a better core exercise. It doesn’t test the legs like normal squatting due to all of the other limitations. I’ve done 10 at 65kg but a 30kg jump is a bit much!
Maybe like mrmonkfinger, I’ll start doing them again.

BTW, Dan John is one of the worlds most respected strength training experts (along with Rip and a few others). I wouldn’t question him personally.

Hey I just did one now to try it out, and didn’t fall over. It was hard mind.

All the way down? I mean deeeep

If so – nice one! But not something I’d engage in without a decent warm-up. i’ve found it actually put more potential injury type strain on my straight leg than the bent one due to inflexibility.

For some reason I can do more on my left leg than my right, which might not sound strange, but I’m pretty much totally right-sided.

I have been trying to do this a couple of times a week since the turn of the year:

Link 1

And you can progress to this:

Link 2

I got into OH Squats via Dan John. He raves about them (and farmer’s walks) as being two great ‘Dad strength’ exercises. He refers to another US coach (college athletics) who has 15 OH BW squats as a bench mark to make the team. Hence I’m seeing if I can achieve that for no other reason than it’s a good thing to have a go at.

Dad strength? The kind of strength you develop carrying two kids up stairs?

But not something I’d engage in without a decent warm-up. i’ve found it actually put more potential injury type strain on my straight leg than the bent one due to inflexibility.

Time has demonstrated for us, that Man has devised any number of ways to damage and hurt himself. I put it down to some folk being easily bored, combined with a lack of imagination.

Carry on.