Any Disadvantage If you know you have a 51 – 49% left right power split?

I’m considering getting a power meter and would like a duel sided but I really don’t want to spend duel sided prices at the moment as I’m being forced to save for a new kitchen. I have been looking at the stages and like how neat and compact it is but its left side only. I have also looked at the pioneer which is up-gradable in the future but the small amount I have read it seems a bit unproven.

I have done various tests in the past and never really drift further than 1% out of left right balance so my thinking is that a left only will be perfectly fine.

My cranks are The new Ultegra.

Any Thoughts?

Andy

I don’t think it’s a big deal for the amateur. You’ll get consistent results to train off.
I looked at the stages recently and they would have been fine for me, but decided to save a bit of cash and got a bepro left pedal instead – pedals are obv simpler to upgrade to dual-sided than a crankset, but that was only a minor concern for me, it was more because the bepro is (relatively) cheap and reliable.

I think you’d have to be fairly serious for a dual sided system to make much of a difference over left only. I went with the cheapest left-only option (the 4iiii precision) and find the info from that useful enough even if I don’t have any details of any left/right differences.

Yep, left only is fine to train to for most of us. If the Pioneer PM’s were available at the time I bought them without hesitation, but the Stages I went with have been faultless

Surprised no one has been along to say how a left hand side only PM could be way out if you have a left/right leg imbalance. But the reality is, it will get you in the right ball park and is good enough for an amateur. So many other things that an amateur could improve upon before worrying about whether their power meter is dual sided or not.

I have a G2 stages and also a Pioneer single leg. I wouldn’t buy another stages when both Pioneer and 4iii are now way cheaper. Plus the pioneer can be upgraded to dual side.

Cranks strike me as a bit more durable/crash proof than pedals but would a scraped pedal really affect the probes inside??

Any Disadvantage If you know you have a 51 – 49% left right power split?

Most people have some sort of imbalance. And that imbalance is usually not constant. It’ll often vary with levels of effort, fatigue and types of riding (e.g. imbalance could be different on flat than when going up a steep climb.) Sometimes the range of imbalance can be quite large.

If you just have the one PM and are not super serious then it’s probably not a big deal. If you have multiple PM and some are dual sided and you’re comparing efforts, then it can be a pain.

Personally I’d get one that you can upgrade to dual sided, at least you have that option later.

A friend has the Bepro pedals and really likes them. I’m put off by how many road pedals I seem to get through though. I haven’t looked at them properly though and I know they do full rebuild kits so it may be an option. The other thing that puts me off is the price of potentially upgrading the single to a double. Its a lot more than if you buy the double from the off.

How does the stages g2 compare to the pioneer taking cost out of the equation ?

How does the stages g2 compare to the pioneer taking cost out of the equation ?

more Stages in use so far more reviews out there, but reliability issues with Stages (G1 and 2) are well documented, there’s a huge thread on here about them that’s worth a look. I’ll be probably be buying a 4iiii when they are back in stock.

Also isnt the pioneer duel function only available with the pioneer head unit which I definitely dont want.

While the Pioneer can be set to ANT+ protocol and be used with a Garmin, Magellan or similar, its true strengths are only evident once linked with the new Pioneer SGX-CA500 (US$300 / AU$349) head unit, using its own wireless protocol. It’s in this combination that the Pioneer measures separate left and right force direction and power at 12 points every revolution, or every 30 degrees.

Can’t imagine buying a stages after reading so much negative feedback online

As I said, my Stages has been faultless but I would be all over the Pioneer if buying now. The dual power is fine with a Garmin headunit- the Pioneer one just opens up things like showing at which points in the cycle you generate what power… nice but no-one no what do to with the data really (same goes for Vector pedal data etc). You’ll still get a dual total power and the more normal functions AFAIK.

Rotor and P2M would also be up there with Pioneer and it would come down to cranks available and price for me

Most people have some sort of imbalance. And that imbalance is usually not constant. It’ll often vary with levels of effort, fatigue and types of riding (e.g. imbalance could be different on flat than when going up a steep climb.) Sometimes the range of imbalance can be quite large.

The change in imbalance isn’t super well documented but very plausible. For the average person though, if there is a change in imbalance with effort then it is plausible this is consistent ride to ride which means your effort zones as measured by one leg may be a touch out but nothing that affects ability to train effectively.

It’s the change with fatigue that could be more detrimental. Consider a time trial effort where you are 50/50 at the start but drift towards 55/45 towards the end, at this point you’d be reading 10% over or 10% under based on which leg the PM was measuring.

Only a really serious issue for an amatuer if you’ve only got one leg, but I guess you’d think about that first.

But you’ll see that as a changed in measured critical power for those time durations. It won’t be the same as the “actual” power and your CP curve may look funny if the imbalance gets huge but I would have though it is consistent ride to ride at the very worst (hope that makes sense).

Where are people finding 4iiii’s and pioneers “cheap”?

Stages Ultegra are £445 from Merlin at the moment: Use LOVE10 code

That code doesn’t work on that power meter. Shame.

Does, you just need to be logged in.

I have a stages, its been fine.

Only issue with left side only is that if your right leg is stronger you’ll find yorself at a disadvantage when it comes to racing on Zwift. I reduce my weight by 20 kg to componsate..;-)

If you’re looking at singlesided powermeters as a budget option then a Powerpod could potentially be much more accurate than a singlesided dfpm depending on your left/right imbalance and would also allow for analysis of pedal stroke, riding style and CDA. (CDA in real time following an update I believe?)

As far as I’m aware training terms there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that knowing your left/right imbalance actually helps you though, other than providing a baseline to get back to following injury.

I’ll give an example;

Start a ride at 250 Watts with an even split so L=125 R=125.
As the ride progresses your left leg weakens and your right leg starts to pick up the slack so now running 47/53 in favour of the right leg.

Power meter now reading 235 watts even though total watts remains the same.

If your FTP is 250 and after 35-40 min your power meter is telling you that 250 watts is 235 watts you have a massive problem. If you dont understand why that is a massive issue and the implications that has on your PMC, CTL etc etc then you probably dont need a power meter.

Power meters are one of the best training tools but they rely on accuracy and consistency. If you dont have that you would probably be better to not have the information at all.

As a stop gap whilst you get the funds by all means buy one you can upgrade to dual sided.

Final thing, there is a reason Sky have been running prototype dual sided stages since they were paid a shedload of cash to use them.

Love my Stages XTR that I swap between bikes.

It can drop out and I did nearly kill it when it did so 15minutes into an FTP test. However for a MTB and for training ito neat and good enough.

Balance may well be an issue as my stages power is considerably up on Power tap but as I only ever use stages and only pay attention to it for training I don’t care.

Pretty sure that your body straightens itself out under a period of duress, rather than makes itself wonkier. i.e. an imbalance will be less pronounced when pushing hard.

Something to bear in mind.

I check my balance on a Wattbike occasionally. It has never failed to be perfectly even circles of power. I ride at least 100km of my weekly total fixed. If you ride fixed you will have an even pedal stroke.

In reality I think it really doesn’t matter in the slightest. But it is an extra selling point. Overall power output is what matters. In the example above, if you are dropping to 235 watts, you need to work harder, not worry about your balance.

Pretty sure that your body straightens itself out under a period of duress, rather than makes itself wonkier. i.e. an imbalance will be less pronounced when pushing hard.

When pushing hard and fatigued is when your form starts to go and that can cause any imbalance to be exaggerated. Probably depends on the cause. I know that’s when mine is most pronounced.

TiRed – Member
If you ride fixed you will have an even pedal stroke.

Nooooooooppe. I’m a big fan of riding a fixie from time to time for other reasons, but there’s no evidence they give you a smooth pedal stroke, they may well even be detrimental to ‘smooth-ness’. Personally I think riding a mountain bike over varied and difficult terrain is the best thing for smoothness of power application, as that’s where it’s genuinely useful, to help with grip and stuff. On a fixie the bike actively helps you over the dead spot, so you can be as choppy as you like and it smoothes out for you.

I wouldn’t buy another Stages, great support but dire product.

You might be okay if you keep it in a warm and dry place, but if you keep your bike in a cold garage after wet rides then forget about it.

When pushing hard and fatigued is when your form starts to go and that can cause any imbalance to be exaggerated. Probably depends on the cause. I know that’s when mine is most pronounced.

Yeh, makes sense when you think about it. Mine seems to be the opposite though; i.e. doesn’t feel even when pedalling slowly, but when going hard my legs seem to even out. Can’t remember where I read it, will try and find a link

If you’re really interested in L/R balance then this chaps blog is worth a read…

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/left-right-out-of-balance.html

He has more reason than most to be knowledgable about it!

Haha, yeh TBF I thought it was him that said the imbalance becomes less pronounced when going hard

I’ve noticed since getting a dual sided power-meter that I’m slightly right leg dominant (52%) during intervals and when climbing, then slightly left leg dominant during the recovery period. I think this is a psychological thing, due to my weak left knee, but it’s not a big enough deal to warrant looking into further.

Anyway, one sided power meters are just fine, so long as they’re consistent little else matters.

TiRed – Member
I check my balance on a Wattbike occasionally. It has never failed to be perfectly even circles of power. I ride at least 100km of my weekly total fixed. If you ride fixed you will have an even pedal stroke.

In reality I think it really doesn’t matter in the slightest. But it is an extra selling point. Overall power output is what matters. In the example above, if you are dropping to 235 watts, you need to work harder, not worry about your balance.
IF you ride fixed will have no effect onwhether you are balanced or not.
You have missed the point entirely re dropping to 235 Watts. The point is that you havent dropped 15 watts but the power meter will tell you that you have and you have no way of knowing. If you were doing 2 x 20’s at FTP the second interval would be way off. Your TSS would be off. Your FTP would be off.

Re balance in legs it varies between people and in the same person depending on power being put out and state of fatigue.
I know one person who at low power is left dominant, at FTP is even and at high power is right leg dominant. The transition from one to another changes in time and severity depending on a number of factors.

A seem to swap side to side by 2% from one ride to the next.

End of the day you can train very effectively without a power meter. I believe it is easier to train without than it is to train with one that isnt consistent. YMMV.

Where are people finding 4iiii’s and pioneers “cheap”?

My 4iiii (a 105 one) was £350 from Evans.

padkinson – Member

TiRed – Member
If you ride fixed you will have an even pedal stroke.

Nooooooooppe. I’m a big fan of riding a fixie from time to time for other reasons, but there’s no evidence they give you a smooth pedal stroke, they may well even be detrimental to ‘smooth-ness’. Personally I think riding a mountain bike over varied and difficult terrain is the best thing for smoothness of power application, as that’s where it’s genuinely useful, to help with grip and stuff. On a fixie the bike actively helps you over the dead spot, so you can be as choppy as you like and it smoothes out for you. There’s a ton of anecdotal evidence that fixed is good for a smooth cadence – roadies have been training fixed for a 100 years with that in mind. They could be wrong of course – received wisdom is regularly over-turned in sports biomechanics. But you’d need to come up with something better than ‘you can be as choppy as you like’ riding fixed as the dogma-killing observation. Come on now.

Argh, so at merlin:

105 5800 Stages PM: £364
Ultegra 6800 Stages PM: £445

Worth the extra £81 for a matching one? 😆

Nice bike, definitely. Winter bike, no. 🙂

I wouldn’t pay £81 for a matching arm! In fact when I got my 4iiii one it’s on a black 105 5800 arm and I initially had it on a silver Tiagra chainset (although it’s now on a black R500, which is sort of 105, instead).

Argh, so at merlin:

105 5800 Stages PM: £364
Ultegra 6800 Stages PM: £445

Worth the extra £81 for a matching one?

And those of us with 6750 are screwed cos they changed the colours for 6800 😡

My Stages is 6700, and it has been run on a nice shiny 6600 Ultegra crank. Forget matching.

And when riding fixed, smoothness is a given as my cadence is consistently geared for 90 rpm. If you mash, you can expect some imbalance.

But I really don’t think it matters Train to a consistent number and know the that number – as per heart rate really. When fixed I use speed, and mentally adjust for wind and slope – since power = speed after adjustment.

There’s a ton of anecdotal evidence that fixed is good for a smooth cadence – roadies have been training fixed for a 100 years with that in mind. They could be wrong of course – received wisdom is regularly over-turned in sports biomechanics. But you’d need to come up with something better than ‘you can be as choppy as you like’ riding fixed as the dogma-killing observation. Come on now.

The plural of anecdote is not data.