chewkw, you’re always full of glib criticism, what better alternative do you propose?

If I understand chekw correctly he’s proposing militarising the police with a shoot to kill policy for such situations when they reckon it’s a good idea.

cynic-al – Member

chewkw, you’re always full of glib criticism, what better alternative do you propose?

Alternative? Death penalty.

In such obvious case shoot then debate later. You really cannot have a person charging at the police with a gun after just murdering someone in the broad daylight, only to get more publicity for what they had just done.

Put it this way, murdering someone in the broad daylight then shouting their religious belief can easily be considered insane, so they might walk free and to murder again in future. If they play their cards right they can claim insanity to walk free. Why take the chance?

wrightyson – Member

@jamj1974
Now you seem a sensible and reasonably intelligent person so I’m sure you can understand I wasn’t suggesting we convict all would be crims on the basis of CCTV.
However in this case even your liberal, to the book mind must be able to see that a plea of not guilty is basically a **** piss take!!!

Yes it would be a piss take and I can’t condone the crime but a failure to use the system properly would take us to a place I wouldn’t want to live in. Trial by your peers is something we should never abandon.

Why not? How would you like to make that decision?

We could take 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years in this case its rather irrelevant as the outcome will be the same. As i said this will be a very small number of cases per decade never mind year.

A pre trial with a jury and say a time limit for each side to present their case. Jury decides if there is any doubt over the guilt and whether to proceed to a full trial? Where guilt is overwhelming the trial is nothing but a show trial- in effect though I am sure it will be fair etc but we know the outcome dont we. Whatever we do the only issue is length and cost in certain cases.

chewkw, you’re always full of glib criticism, what better alternative do you propose?

You still read what he writes 😯

Heh good point junky.

chewkw how would your death penalty avoid the trial?

Or is it to be handed out on the spot by police, Judge Dredd style?

A pre trial with a jury and say a time limit for each side to present their case. Jury decides if there is any doubt over the guilt and whether to proceed to a full trial?

So, like a jury trial, but with an arbitrary limit on how much of your case / evidence you can present? Why is that a good idea?

We could take 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years in this case its rather irrelevant as the outcome will be the same. As i said this will be a very small number of cases per decade never mind year.

Who decides the criteria for your sham trial?

“All men are innocent until proven guilty” surely we all agree on this? Even evil, horrible, murdering scum like those two need a fair trial and a proper defense even if it is just to ensure that everyone gets the same treatment.

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!

The 2nd time I have quoted Sir Thomas More this week!

If I understand chekw correctly he’s proposing militarising the police with a shoot to kill policy for such situations when they reckon it’s a good idea.

Well it worked well in NI. 😕

Well it worked well in NI.

Especially for the IRA recruitment drive.

Why is that a good idea?

Why is that a bad idea?
The whole trial, in this case, is pointless as we all know the outcome.

Who decides the criteria for your sham trial?

The outcome will be the same however long the trial is so you can call any trial a “sham”. CPS recommendation, High court panel of judges decides, Jury decides – that is three checks to its abuse would that do?

All men are innocent until proven guilty”

Off course but it is rather easy to prove it in this case and somewhat problematic to come up with a credible defence so I am not sure what advantage is gained by the length of trial.
Do you think it will affect the outcome?

Junkyard – Please see Sir Thomas More above.

You cannot have different legal systems for different crimes. In principle everyone has to be treated the same.*

*The very rich and privileged who can afford fair better barristers are the exception to this rule.

“All men are innocent until proven guilty” surely we all agree on this? Even evil, horrible, murdering scum like those two need a fair trial and a proper defense even if it is just to ensure that everyone gets the same treatment.

I think you’re missing JYs ( the limp wrested lefty 😀 ) point. These people are guilty. They were FILMED doing it. They have admitted guilt. There really is no question over their innocence. I think that is why he suggested that the trial is a waste of time and money, but we all should and do get our day in court.
Bites a. Little that these two get legal aid, but the a the rules.

One thing it won’t affect, in the absence of capital punishment, is the cost to the taxpayer to keep them safe from the public (or is it the other way round?)
About 30+K a year (todays cat A prices), X 2, X however many years they get.
2 x 9mm rounds wouldv’e been a bit more cheaper-rer.

You cannot have different legal systems for different crimes. In principle everyone has to be treated the same.*

I am arguing the law be applied equally to all but its a nice attempt to avoid answering the question

Do you think the length will affect the outcome?

They do deserve their day in court but, as they have no actual defence, I am just suggesting those days are somewhat shorter. Its not going to be hard to weigh up the evidence of the video, the eyewitness accounts and the confession and work out what happened.

I oppose the death penalty for wrecker is correct I am a limp wristed leftie tree hugger

cynic-al – Member

Heh good point junky.

chewkw how would your death penalty avoid the trial?

Or is it to be handed out on the spot by police, Judge Dredd style?

In this case on the spot by the police. Yes, Judge Dredd style so no big deal really.

Life is too short trying to be whiter than whiter, being anal and by proclaiming the god like law (not much different from the God’s law).

Trying the system out then you have forgotten about being human (oops … should be classed as maggots).

🙄

chewkw are you really this guy?

They won’t last long inside..
Hopefully.

A fitting punishment.

The should be hung drawn and quartered live on TV.

Using modern medical technology it should be possible to ensure they die in indescribable agony.

I wonder how much MI5 will be scrutinized during the trial:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

I’m also curious as to why this is such a high profile case… when a Muslim Pensioner was killed a couple of weeks prior to this incident in similar circumstance, there was no national media coverage; what could the agenda be?

Using modern medical technology it should be possible to ensure they die in indescribable agony.

Would that be with, or without a fair trial?

Would that be with, or without a fair trial?

Yes i assure you the show trail live on tv will be completely fair..

Queen Elizabeth I must be rolling in her grave.

wow medieval torture, sounds like you are a fan of extreme sharia law 3dvgirl, whats next on your list?
how about

Many scholars[23][153] claim Shari’a law encourages domestic violence against women, when a husband suspects nushuz (disobedience, disloyalty, rebellion, ill conduct) in his wife

or perhaps the death penalty for homesexuality etc etc

its laughable how the most rightwing posters seem to have more in common with the terrorists than the victim

wow medieval torture, sounds like you are a fan of extreme sharia law 3dvgirl, whats next on your list?

People like me remind me of the fools that appeased Hitler before WW2

3dvgirl, there may be people who think you are filth.

What then?

🙄

3dv girl I really think you should move to Iran or maybe North Korea, your ethics seem to be well matched to their legal systems

3dvgirl, there may be people who think you are filth.

Yes, many do these many of these people think i should die and i think many of them should die,I think Darwin wrote something about it.

I reckon they’d probably benefit most from a bloody good cuddle

They won’t last long inside..

They probably will actually, as the prison service & It’s employees have a duty of care to these creatures. They’ll be very high profile for a long time & there’ll be balls rolling if anything ‘untoward’ happens to them.

3dv girl I really think you should move to Iran or maybe North Korea, your ethics seem to be well matched to their legal systems

I assume you’re the sort of guy that keeps a jar of Vaseline next to you’re bed, in case a burglar breaks in to you’re house and wants to **** you up the ass.

bit o spits fine for me!

😉

Wow.this went from 0 to 100 pretty quick!

If these two could do what they did to Lee Rigby, theyr’e gonna be a right handful in jail, believe me.

[video]http://vimeo.com/58518067[/video]

Hey 3dvgirl, how about it, I’m the kind of guy who’d protect you… I swiftly kneecap everyone I meet to give me the upper hand should they ever wrong me… anyhow, while you’re down there…

Hey 3dvgirl, how about it, I’m the kind of guy who’d protect you… I swiftly kneecap everyone I meet to give me the upper hand should they ever wrong me… anyhow, while you’re down there…

lol..

Only for personal safety you understand… can never be too careful 😉

Hey 3dvgirl, how about it, I’m the kind of guy who’d protect you… I swiftly kneecap everyone I meet to give me the upper hand should they ever wrong me… anyhow, while you’re down there…

I have the strangest……

3dvgirl – Member

A fitting punishment.

The should be hung drawn and quartered live on TV.
Using modern medical technology it should be possible to ensure they die in indescribable agony.

I say this without humour or irony – 3dvgirl are you actually human?

kimbers – Member

chewkw are you really this guy?

Who is that person? I really have no clue who he is. ❓

Should I know who he is?