Parts you have to buy. Labour you don’t, you’re paying the staff anyway

I suppose you could argue that the parts are already on the shelf & paid for too, Peter

what percentage take is your shop getting after they’ve paid you for an hour and then charged for an hour of your time

How does that compare to sales mark-up ?

Mmm, the plot thickens…

I have used this LBS loads but before they moved to current location. To start with very cliquey but when I proved my self as being not a time waster (this may not be palletable to all but is a fact of life IMO) they were brilliant, nothing was to much trouble. Last time I was in there I only recognised the son of owner and he was his usual sarky self and gave me a lump of discount.

Not apples and apples though is it?

New gear cable £1.99, fitting £10?

New Hope BB £70, fitting £10, (or more likely free if you bought it from the shop rather than for £10 less on CRC). The BB probably made more than £10 margin.

here’s an honest question..

I was told that most LBS make their bread and butter fitting £12 BBs and servicing uncared for bikes owned by people who wouldn’t even be able to contemplate the concept of a £70 BB..

boutique higher end stuff is still a very niche market..

Is that right or bolleaux..?

i cant understand how people can say that this was an honest mistake, if it was why didnt the wheel builder come clean when the op turned up on his shop door way to confront him, he could of just appologised and said it was an honest mistake and gave him back his original spokes and refunded him, he only refunded him? a bike shops rep is only as good as their last job they did for you,if i were treated like the op i wouldnt be using that shop again either, and i do know the shop in question, don skenes mate a better shop by far, if that shop wants to stay open as long as skenes has, its not going to do that by treating its customers like that, ive do doubt the shop owner has got to hear about this by now, so he could do worse than come on here and give the op a further explanation, if only to save his shops rep, it could be quite as simple that it was all a missunderstanding but the wheel builder was to embarassed to own up to only he knows really, but from what ive heard im on the side of the op, plenty of other bike shops around mate

My LBS used to to similar stuff,and they closed down.

I was also loyal to them for years and never even got a jaffa cake even when i had suplied my fair share.

But on the argument of Buying online then taking to the local bike shop,What if i buy it In one shop (say in glentress on holiday) then go to MY LBS to fit it. Surely this is the same as buying online in the eyes of the shop.

PS, I buy on line for everything now, for several reasons.
1. Its Cheaper
2. All my parts are home serviceable (used to be a mechanic)
3. My Newlocal bike shop have all the staff frommy old LBS exceptthe owner.

So this thread has got me thinking.. and I apologise for the slightly off topic nature of my wondering.
Why is it that no LBS have partnered with one or more of the big online stores.? I am thinking of the Blackcircles car tyres model here. Customer gets the benefit of cheap online prices and the LBS gets the labour charge for fitting and the opportunity to diversify their business… As an off the top of the head example, use the space saved not holding large amounts of stock to open a coffee/cake shop or similar with internet facility of course so that customers can be ordering more stuff to be fitted while waiting for their current job to complete.!?!?

Am I mad.? Having worked in the bike trade (many years ago) I seem to remember that profit on parts and bikes was a pittance and only shops that had good servicing trade were able to make any money…

Feel free to shoot holes in my reasoning..

here’s an honest question..

I was told that most LBS make their bread and butter fitting £12 BBs and servicing uncared for bikes owned by people who wouldn’t even be able to contemplate the concept of a £70 BB..

boutique higher end stuff is still a very niche market..

Is that right or bolleaux..?

Pretty much.

Unless they are targeting the super high end build market, which is quite different.

Even then the daily thoroughfare into the workshop of cheap bikes (if they are the only shop in town) keeps things ticking over.

Very few shops manage to target that area effectively though.

I was told that most LBS make their bread and butter fitting £12 BBs and servicing uncared for bikes owned by people who wouldn’t even be able to contemplate the concept of a £70 BB..

boutique higher end stuff is still a very niche market..

Is that right or bolleaux..?

Thing is you have to fit an awful lot of £12 BBs to match the profit you would make selling a £3000 bike .

As someone said above new hear cable and fitting £10.
Is that really what bike shops charge?

If so that is certainly what they want to be selling.

Probably making over 100% markup on the gear cable alone and then another £8 to fit is HUGE profit margins.

£10 sounds ok to suply and fit a gear cable.It cost loads to rent, heat and pay rates on a shop +staff costs.How much is labour an hour £30 or so?

As someone said above new hear cable and fitting £10.
Is that really what bike shops charge?

If so that is certainly what they want to be selling.

Probably making over 100% markup on the gear cable alone and then another £8 to fit is HUGE profit margins.

Yeah that’s a massive £1 profit on the gear cable and £8 for 15 mins labour which works out at £32 per hr inclusive of VAT which is hardly HUGE.

£1 on £1 is a lot. Sell a lot of gears cables and your quids in. Easy money.

What expensive bike components are 100% markup?

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

So this thread has got me thinking.. and I apologise for the slightly off topic nature of my wondering.
Why is it that no LBS have partnered with one or more of the big online stores.?

Evans? Pretty much online prices. I suspect the real reason is the kit to fit tyres is £100’s and only need using once every other year.

A BB tool is £10 and is needed every 6 months.

As someone said above new hear cable and fitting £10.
Is that really what bike shops charge?

If so that is certainly what they want to be selling.

Probably making over 100% markup on the gear cable alone and then another £8 to fit is HUGE profit margins.

Doubt it makes them huge amounts, the mechanics productivity is unlikely to be 100%, and even for an office job a rule of thumb is it costs 3x more than the wage to get something done (rent, rates, cleaners, energy bills, supervision etc), a bike shop must surely be much less efficient.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

Reckon you could fit 30 gear cables in an hour, and set the gears up, explain to the irate commuter why a bit of wire just cost them 15% of his whole BSO, greet the next customer, diagnose the problem with their bike as stuck gear cable, and run it through the till?

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

If you can fit a gear cable – properly – in two minutes then you’re a far, far better mechanic than me. And I’ve been doing this for 20 years.

If, in those two minutes, you can also book the bike in, chat to the customer, book the bike out, take payment and move onto the next job, then you must be a time traveller.

Yeah fair enough when you take all that in to consideration I see your point.

Being as I do all my own work I didn’t see all the extra faff.
I do genuinely fit gear cables to my own bike in next to no time.

^^^Agreed.

It is very obviously that some of you guys have never worked in a service industry or have any idea of whats involved. That said some shops make a right pigs ear out of it whilst others really deliver

That’s said it doesn’t mean bike shops should be refusing to take on jobs because the parts didn’t come from them.

I’ve bought car tyres online before and then taken them to a local fitter. It’s work, it’s what they do and it keeps them in business.

On the topic of the original story have we heard from the bike shop to get their end of the story?

That’s said it doesn’t mean bike shops should be refusing to take on jobs because the parts didn’t come from them.

I refuse to take on work all the time. The Porsche garage near me refuses to fix my old Smart car. Every business makes decisions all the time about the work they want to do, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Where did you get the wheels from Ant? forgetting the mistake with the hub, happy with them out the box?

If LBS’s are that flush with cash they can down simple repair jobs fair play to them but I didn’t think that was the case.

I’m sure Porsche would service your car if you asked them to. At their usual crazy rates of course.

And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.

One of the most predictable posts ever 😀

Ramsey Neil – Member
And 15 minutes to fit a gear cable? More like 2 minutes so again. £8 for 2 minutes work is easy money.
One of the most predictable posts ever

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we’re really simple 2 minute jobs.

This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.

Really.. dt spokes cost that much? I paid 17 for 32 dt spokes when built with hubs and rims supplied by me.

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we’re really simple 2 minute jobs.

This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.

But gear systems haven’t really become more difficult to change cables in over the last 10 years and we aren’t disagreeing about overheads just about the time taken to change a gear cable and set the gears up .

Quick read through this and I cannot see how people can jump to the LBS’ defence. Seems like the mechanic tried to use longer spoke nipples an hope the customer wouldn’t notice. Got found out and deserves to be named and shamed.
It the mechanic had been honest an charged purely for work then non of this would have happened.

For the people who think that bike shops make much of their money on labour, how many shops are there that are repair only? There are around 70 bike shops in the area that I live, and I can think of maybe three repair only shops, and two of those have some sort of niche (offering storage, mechanic clinics etc).

My local specialist bike shop in Matlock have told me many times they make most of their money on repairs.

Reading between the lines I wonder if there is some kind of history between the OP and the LBS?
Also the OP was ringing everyday about a wheel build that wasn’t exactly an urgent job:

so are the carbon wheels any good
where you riding with them this weekend?
Yes – look good enough.
Still on winter bike. So wont be using them for awhile yet.

I’m not saying that excuses the rip off/misunderstanding (delete as you see fit) but if a customer is constantly on your case for a non urgent job you may be tempted to cut corners/get confused.

Regarding the “Which makes more profit, parts or labour ?” question;
The customer pays for the labour, the mechanic gets paid the following week.
The shop buys the parts, they then sit on the shelf for hours/days/weeks before being sold.

Guessing at the numbers, but I suspect that, for a small business, cash flow is as important as profit and 5% profit hand to mouth is better than 20% profit with £5000 for stock up front.

I used that same shop as the op did years ago , haven’t been back since .

what percentage take is your shop getting after they’ve paid you for an hour and then charged for an hour of your time

How does that compare to sales mark-up ?

Labour margin is waaaaay huger than on parts. Which is why I said what I did in the first place!

Dan – got wheels off ebay. Chinese import. Email if you want link.
Very impressed with to be honest. Very tight & smooth.
They were a few grams over 1500grms.
I not used them yet because I still waiting delivery on new bike.

As for me hassling LBS for whees.
Maybe that was the case.
But, as said. He said spokes were due in that day. And he would ring me back later that day.
Each time he didnt ring me back … so i rang him next day.

On the shops website it says they are happy to build bikes bought elsewhere online.

Finally …

Wheres LoCo to explain why he uses two different accounts on here?
Amusing really that he also claims to know me too … Space cadet obviously!
And lets not forget – i was happy to pay for 12 spokes at £2 each off him ..

Where is the shepleg/loco connection being made (and where’s the proof)? If true then yeah that’s pathetic and certainly lowers my opinion of him, if it’s just speculation then you should say so.

Ramsey Neil – Member
And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we’re really simple 2 minute jobs.
This was a shop with 2 staff though so I can see how in a bigger chain there are more overheads and paper work.
But gear systems haven’t really become more difficult to change cables in over the last 10 years and we aren’t disagreeing about overheads just about the time taken to change a gear cable and set the gears up .
POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

I’m trying I think how much we used to charge back then. It feels like a long time ago so apologies I can’t quite remember the exact figure.

I’m sure it was in the region of £5/6 to supply and fit a new gear cable (inner only).

The shop is still going today so it must have worked for them. I dont know how much they charge now though.

Have look on Sheplegs previous topic history.
He gives email as Simonpowdrill@etc..
From cwmcarn he adds ..

On locotuning site .. His name is revealed.

2min detective work.

Interesting to read diff attitudes he has to same topics whilst using diff accounts.
Take a look.
A strange fella for sure ..

Rockhopper – Member
My local specialist bike shop in Matlock have told me many times they make most of their money on repairs.
POSTED 4 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

My local, good shop Stanely Fearns. I try to use them where ever possible.

Might see you on the trails Rockhopper, look out for an old black Cove Stiffee. What do you ride?

And I have actually worked in the bike industry many years ago for a small bike shop. Back then (10 years ago) jobs like that we’re really simple 2 minute jobs.

Oh sure – on a gear system where the cable is clean and new, and the gears are perfectly set up, fitting a new cable is very quick. Snip it, thread through a new cable, tension, clamp and cut the end. I can do that in two minutes too.

But those aren’t the usual cases – usually, you have to factor in time to remove the frayed bits from inside the housing, time to check the housing and lube it, time to free up the stuck barrel adjuster, time to adjust the gears again and work out that the owner has screwed the limit screws right in, stuff like that.

A common mistake by amateur mechanics is to think that the average bike shop repair is as simple as their average home repair. It really isn’t 😉

IF everything the OP has said is true, there is no defense for the LBS

If I posted up here saying my local garage charged me for parts and labour to fit new oil filter, then I discovered they used the old filter, I can guarantee nobody would try to defend them. Why do people get all misty eyed when it comes to a LBS?

They charged him for new parts that they didn’t to fit, it is ridiculous to claim it was a mistake.

If the LBS did what the OP said it did, its an absolute shame and they do themselves no favors at all. When you use one you put your trust in them and expect a certain level of service not to be ripped off.

So how much cash does the LBS make on parts and repairs. Well, repairs are a double whammy, as they will charge you for both.

Now why is OP using 2 accounts? Every time i see something posted that remotely looks like its criticizing an LBS or even someones favorite band, there are some individuals who automatically will turn on the OP and suggest that he as an ulterior motive and then will proceed to try and discredit him with whatever means. This is more so if the individual has not posted before. This is unfair and plain mean in many cases, some individual may be happy lurking and enjoying reading the posts and may only be motivated to post by a negative experience which they want to vent. Seems to Happen a lot here, I think its because certain individuals may feel like fools for either buying a criticized brand or cant face up to the fact that they may have themselves been subject to poor service or a rip off but cant face up to being stupid and not understanding.

Anyway, that aside, and given the responses the OP has had so far, I’m not surprised that he would use a second login to make a complaint.