for the sake of a few pence or a pound why not just buy from the LBS?
Why not buy it cheaper online, and then set light to a diver, then you could have the lbs experience without leaving your sofa. Well minus the disinterested staff inreraction bit.
Bike Forum
LBS - Dont they want customers?
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Posted 4 months ago #
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So I am not the only person who has been surprised by All Terrain Cycles attitude.
As to those saying I should subsidise my local LBS why the hell should I, they are just a business like any other...
Ok they may be working to a business model and thats all very well and good for them. Obviously they are wanting internet businesss and local passing trade ie not regular repeat customers, again fine by me. However I am surprised that they want to turn down the opportunity to get local riders in to their store because it doesn't fit their business model.
Shame really because now I probably wont bother even checking their website, let alone visit the shop. Appears to me they are dismissing a whole customer section.
As to when I need work doing on my bike, well I think I will just nip over the hill to JD's
Posted 4 months ago # -
Just march into the shop website print off in hand and demand they price match their online sister business....
Or don't and just order it from CRC, nowt wrong with them really...
The only issue I can imagine they have is that the two separate businesses are totally separate entities with separate stock holding, separate trade accounts and everything, but even that seems a bit tenuous...
Posted 4 months ago # -
So I am not the only person who has been surprised by All Terrain Cycles attitude.
Not at all. I was too.
I saw they had something I wanted at a very good price on-line and was passing reasonably near by, so made a detour, hoping to pick it up. The shop price was much higher and I was given the same line about different businesses. I asked if I could order on-line and take the stock there and then, saving them picking, packing and posting, but no joy. Strange.
Other shops I've been in have similar pricing strategies have happily met their own (or other) on-line prices following a simple friendly request.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I can see this from both sides.
Sticking a label on a jiffy can be done at any hour of the day and takes seconds.
Taking money in the shop will always involve a few minutes of banter, staffing, opening up etc etcI like the banter, but if you are running a tight business model banter costs time.
But it also takes time explaining why you have two prices.
How about a turnstile in the shop entrance with two options:
1) free to enter but not allowed more than essential chat such as "one water bottle"... "10.99" with grumpy (ex prison warden) staff.
2) £3 entrance fee with upto ten minutes of banter with jolly (ex lap dancing) staff.Over the phone... Press one if you actually have some money and want to buy something.. Press two to warble on about a 1935 nurgley wretchins and ask questions about things you are not going to buy, starting the conversation with "I doubt you have a twanny spring for a nurgley wretchins. I've been looking for one for 10 years.." and when the shop guy says yeah sure we do it's £1, you can then say "ok I will have to think about it and call you back.... I once cycled with bill waters, you don't him, he has a beard and two arms... We rode to summerbuttcome from worbledrover... That was something special....
Would an 0898 cycle chat line work...
Are you bored and lonely want to talk bottom brackets and nipples with like minded men in your area..( Me in a leotard doing a sexy dance in background) Call 0898 853 853 .... Etc
Posted 4 months ago # -
I have been in Charlie's shop, and all of the above is true. Worryingly.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I own an LBS and saw one of my customers shopping in Tesco.
Charlie, that's genius!
Posted 4 months ago # -
I went to Leisure Lakes because I wanted to try some shoes on for size before I bought them.
I mentioned they had a 10% sale on on line at the time and asked if he could match it with the in store price.
He said no, so I said that now I know what size I want, I might as well go back home and order them on line, although I would have preferred to buy them there and then.
He thought about it and said "OK, we'll match it".Surely selling a pair of shoes at 10% off is better than having them sat on the shelf at full price.
Posted 4 months ago # -
If you dont waant to buy from your LBS thats fine just stop coming on here bleating about how expensive they are as if they are pesonally trying to rip you off. It just shows you lack of understanding.
Posted 4 months ago # -
If you dont waant to buy from your LBS thats fine just stop coming on here bleating about how expensive they are as if they are pesonally trying to rip you off. It just shows you lack of understanding.
Good Lord! Some intelligence at last, internet retailers work on volume/lower overheads, it's simply not possible to price match this in the high street. If all LBS went to CRC pricing most of them would be closed within months!
Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here.
Posted 4 months ago # -
"Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here."
But thats the sort of ludite attitude that will see LBS going to the wall.
From reuters "Capgemini and consultants IMRG said on Friday online retail sales rose 25 percent year-on-year in December to 6.8 billion pounds, taking the total for 2010 to 58.8 billion pounds, up 18 percent and far outstripping an original forecast of 13 percent."
So I think you will find more and more of the population are prepared to shop around online and get a good deal.
All I was ever suggesting is that maybe my LBS might wasnt to try and encourage my custom, not give me reasons not to shop with them...
Posted 4 months ago # -
Of course owning a proper, functioning internet shopping site costs peanuts.
Yes you can start from your home, employing your girlfriend or Nan to answer emails and packaging.
If you want to attract business, satisfy customers and carry on you need to do abit more..
Business premises. Yes you can use a Unit/large lock up but these also attract rent, business rates, heating/lighting, packaging and corporate tax etc.
Your Mum wont know about compatibility of products so you need to employ someone who understands the products to be your customer services. Plus you can talk/take up someones time on the phone/email just as much as in a shop. Then there is the aspect of orders going missing, damaged goods, misdescribed, online content managed, staff for this and to your hosting company etc etc.Lets also be honest, from my experiences of most bike shops - the quality of the staff isn't **** great. So that cup of tea you offer, you know cost you 10p but you expect me to drop a few hundred out of my wallet at the end of it? Come on.
You'll also have to pay these people wages, NI contribution etc etc.
Then there are the two biggie's:
- Stock availability, you need to receive, store and HOLD quite a large selection. This takes staffing, square footage (extra rent costs), lighting etc. Comparable to the actual store space (the shop floor) of a LBS.
- Price sensitivity to the vast array of other online competitors.So what really are the cost differences? To me, shop glass and maybe slightly higher rent. Yes you have display costs but lets be honest, LBS's take advance sales don't they on shop display model bikes so they win win on that part.
On the high street retailers in general- its only the shit ones that go under.
Plus I love the way some folk bang on about 'timewaster' customers. Smell the coffee, in the business world you can run through a huge tender, spend many man hours on it to be told 'nope'.
Quit **** moaning.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I rang the same shop to see if they had the tyres I was after. Got the same advice, I'd be charged more if I went in there! Ordered them off Next Day instead.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Retail rent is about 2-6 times warehouse rent. Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week (a warehouse you can get away with much lower staffing levels for the same volume of sales, and staff are ££££), so the cost isn't the same.
However having a shop website, and not offering a click and collect service is plainly stupid! You can have the item in the shop prices at RRP for jonny punter who doesn't spend 27hrs online to save 3p, and have it online at a price which is competitive in that market and not lose either customer.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Shop's need to be open 9-5.30 6 days a week
Do you really think that a properly run online operation is run on less hours than this?
In the early/expansion days of a website/shopping portal I bet the owner(s) and staff(s) will be replying to order questions etc longer than office hours...
Sorry I'm not having a go. I just don't like the fairy tale view of LBS's.
One last thing. Do you think as a loyal and regular customer you'd still be welcome if you walked in and said 'hey I no longer have any money'.
Its a business that schmooches you. Just like any other. It just happens to be attached to a hobby.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hora, I speak from 10 years experience of running an online business(non bike), and 3 years experience running an LBS. Trust me, staffing levels and costs for online are a LOT lower than for a bricks and mortar shop, so much so that when I'm in the office I have plenty of time to post sh!t on STW, but when I'm in the shop I don't have time to have a sh!t!
Very few people actually phone up, that's the whole point of online. The warehouse staff can pick and pack a lot of orders in 4 hours per day. For the same staffing cost you can probably cater for 3-4 times the turnover, and hence allow your margin to slip.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I remember the last time I used my local bike shop, which I had been using since a kid (MK Cycles in Bolton). I nipped in to ask them if they could tighten my BB cups up on my new bike I was building as I didn't have the correct tool. The guy behind the counter got stroppy calling me cheeky as its a business and they cant be doing all these things for free!!?? I never said I wasn't going to pay!! So I bought the right tool off him and left and have never been back - probably been a customer for 15 years previous to that.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I can't speak for a 'LBS' but I too have experience from both sides of the fence.
Posted 4 months ago # -
hora - Member
Amen
I can't speak for a 'LBS'Posted 4 months ago # -
Druidh, retail industry in two sectors with lower price points.
Plus if someone wanders in on a Sat morning for a chat, just to hang round and browse. Whats wrong with that? Do your staff have somewhere better to be?
Other customers?
'Hang on a min Sir I'm just going to help this person'
Posted 4 months ago # -
Would hora like to remind us what he does for a living?
The point is if you have a bricks and mortar shop and you price at online prices it would not be financially viable unless your turnover was huge. (£millions)
He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.
If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was. Because ultimately your geographical location is irrelevant - hence the Guernsey mail order tax scam. So you might as well pay next to **** all!
If you want to set a shop up, you need to be in a prime location. Did you read anything about Blacks/Peacocks/La Senza etc etc etc. Why they went into administration? Rents - thats why. Rents in prime business locations are absolutely extortionate!
Posted 4 months ago # -
binners - Member
Actually, I'd probably find out where I was going to get the largest council/government start-up/relocation grant. There's nowt like getting the tax-payer to subsidise my future profitability.
Hora. Use that bowling ball on your shoulders for once.If I was setting up a large online retailers, the first thing I'd do is find out where had the cheapest warehousing in the country was.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Location. You need to attract decent staff anywhere you locate and that they can commute to.
Being on a high st means your customers...and your staff can get to you.
How many bikeshops do you know that are in prime retail positions? The likes of Evans, not small LBS's for the main.
Peacock went bust before.
La Senza sells poly bra's and cheap tat. M&S and many many others do it better.Yes these retailers ARE in prime City/Town locations. They are big chains.
Funny how the retailers who are doing well are also in the big locations
Posted 4 months ago # -
Well as an LBS owner in Leeds, Ive seen the Internet change everything in the last couple of years.
Its just the ease of shopping on the internet not just the prices.
You can compare prices from a dozen sites in minutes, but you can do this whilst on a coffee break at work.
I read somewhere that 80% of internet sales are made at 2 in the afternoon.
Could be wrong on that one.But running a friendly shop, trying to be fair on price, service etc etc.
Just isnt enough to be successful.
Ive seen a couple of well established bike shops in Leeds go to the wall in the past year.
For this industry at least IMO, its about online sales, and to compete in that you need a start up of about £180millionPosted 4 months ago # -
Had the same with the same shop.
Find item on line mmm thats a good price lets see how much postage is ?
Oh hang on it's now not such a good price factoring in postage.
I know ill ring them up as I live a mile up the road.
Hi would you be able to offer the same price for xyz that I have seen on - line if I pop down (ill no doubt have a browse round whilst there and buy something else I didnt know I wanted)
Shop - No web side is a different business - ok how about if I order it now on-line and then pop down would save you having to post it out ?
Shop - No we cant do that either.
Ok not quite getting this now it would appear for the sake of you not having to post it and me using my time/fuel to come and get it you would rather me not buy it ?
Got you ok will keep shoppig else where thanks .
Great business sense - live long and prosper
Posted 4 months ago # -
charlie thanks for that, made me proper lol
Posted 4 months ago # -
To be honest, I'm actually surprised you've not been barred from most bike shops anyway Hora.
I bet their hearts sink when you walk in. I'd like the moon on a stick please. I'd like it to preferably be free. And I'll be back in next week to make a warranty claim for some perceived/imagined/non-existent problem as my new forks have not miraculously transformed me into Steve Peat
Anyway.. interesting article for you...
wiggles turnover = £86.8 million
Posted 4 months ago # -
Your such a naughty wind up binners
He also forgot rates, which is often the biggest killer on the highstreet.
What about other non-high st businesses, don't they pay that?
Then theres Corporation tax and audit of accounts?
My point is its the customer who is squeezed most. Yet we are vilified if we try to make the most of our money.
We are talked about in a generic-derogatory way yet we are expected not to make our wage go as far as possible.
Rule one in business, don't insult your Customers.
Posted 4 months ago # -
This thread has been rather derailed - it's not about whether it costs more to run a normal shop than an internet business, and that normal shops have to charge more in general (anybody with sense can see that
).Also why would you want to sell something cheap when the vast majority of customers are happy to pay RRP? There are alot more cyclists in the world other than the niche mongers on here.
But why would you want to not sell at all rather than sell a bit cheaper to those customers who will otherwise just go online? Especially if you're prepared to sell at that price to somebody who goes to your own website. That bricks and mortar shop is sitting there running up overhead whether or not you make that sale, and you're not even making more money if they use the online part of your business rather than the shop.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Aye soak up all the sales. Better to take some margin than no margin at all sometimes.
Posted 4 months ago # -
ARacer, Hora +1
Obviously I dont want All Terrain to do this as its good for us that they are upsetting potential customers.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Sancho are you crosstracks, or are you not at liberty to say on here ?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I am yes.
Posted 4 months ago # -
This'll upset the apple cart. Good service from All Terrain.
I bought a set of forks and new brakes front & rear from them online.
There was a problem with the forks' delivery to them. So the bloke from the shop rings me up the same day.
Short conversation later a different fork is arranged, at a lower price than on their website. About £30 less,
Whilst on the phone the bloke mentions that I'm local and asks who's fitting the bits?
I say yes very local, about 10 mins ride, plus my Mrs works in New Mill, the other side of the canal.
He offers to fit the fork and brakes for me, as he has the items in stock in the store.
How much?
£10.00 for the fork and the brakes he'll do for free.
I say yes please when could you do it?
"If you drop your bike off today I'll do it tomorrow for you."
Took my bike down, dropped it off at 17:40. 10 mins after they shut, he waited open for me.
Got a phone call the next morning to say it was ready for me.
A most pleasant surprise as I'd expected to have to wait then do it myself.Not had a bother with ATC and will happily spend money in their shop if I need something in a rush or online if not.
Posted 4 months ago #
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