Did the Southern Upland Sportive yesterday. What is it with people who ride these events – they will not take a turn on the front and are happy to just let you drag them along into a nasty headwind.

They were worried that if they tried to help you you would hit them.

Two minutes – you're slacking.

What is it with people who ride these events – they will not take a turn on the front and are happy to just let you drag them along into a nasty headwind.

It's because they're all mountain bikers out on a trip to the "darkside", and they're feeling a bit lost and needed a kindly shepherd to guide them home.

🙂

Just for a giggle, yesterdays tactic was to go off the front of my start group right from the start and see how long I could stay away for. It almost worked – 100miles of a 110mile event. Puncture and running out of energy 10 miles from the end is not nice.

First rule of any kind of competitive road riding; let the donkey do his stuff.
If you're daft enough to sit on the front, people will sit on your wheel.

Nice quote the other day; "Do you like fish?" "yes" "well there's a plaice for you up at the front".

You're a big scary lad; get them organised, shout a bit, tell them to come through, I do it and I'm little and inoffensive!

My one and only sportive ended with me towing a long line of roadies on carbon wonderbikes, on my £300 cannondale from ebay, through the last 20something miles (i misstook the sprint for the village sign for the sprint to the finish!).

Ended up calling back ever couple of minutes "are you dying back there or would you like a turn", answer was usual "dying", followed by me picking up the pace a bit further 🙂

Out of interest, do you people wait for someone to accelerate and overtake you to take a pull, or do you move over when you feel you've done your turn?

Perhaps your 'driving school' could also teach them how to ride? Either that, or they'd heard about your tirade about a cyclist slowing you down when you were driving and didn't want to get in your way?

isn't it your job to peel off, rather than wait for someone to power up through?

That would depend on who I was with and how the group was organised. Two lines works much better, but folk dont seem to realise this.

First rule of any kind of competitive road riding; let the donkey do his stuff.
If you're daft enough to sit on the front, people will sit on your wheel.

spot on, why waste energy when some guy who thinks he's stronger and tries to prove it will do all the work for you, he's bound to blow up before the end…..oh you did 🙂

yea, thats how it usualy works, but on a sportive when you pull over and drop down a gear, the guy behind does exactly the same!

then again there were a considderable number of them pushing up hills! Some roadies do have blood in their EPO circulation systems aparently!

Rocketdog – its a sportive it isn't competitive. If folk would work together they'd all get round quicker.

My idea yesterday was to go as fast as I could for as long as I could, just to see how long it would take to blow up. Not blowing up was never going to happen. I'm delighted to have got as far as I did before the wheels came off. 100miles in 5hrs15mins. The next 10 including puncture took 1hr45mins.

Smee you ought to pull off until someone else does the work, or have a proper dig and drop them.

I'm surprised that these events attract so many with this attitude, it would dispirit me for sure, it's not as if it's a race or anything.

I take it this was not the lead group?

Why did you tow everyone along then?

You could have made it much more fun by dropping back and continuously attacking.

Out of interest, do you people wait for someone to accelerate and overtake you to take a pull, or do you move over when you feel you've done your turn?

Last UK sportive I did, we got into a nce 3 (well, 4) up with a tandem. Given the pace that thing could go, when it came to doing my turn I had to batter myself before limply flicking my elbow and then jumping on the back wheel….

On the whole, continental riders are far more organised, disciplined and prepared to work together IME. There, they rely on the usual flick of the elbow and you're through. That said, next Monday I shall be eating wool at every available opportunity…. 😕

Two lines works much better, but folk dont seem to realise this.

Including all those inferior riders doing that insignificant little event in France at the moment.

cynic-al – I was having plenty of fun. Just cranking the pace up slowly until they started dropping back.

It most certainly wasn't the lead group, I am crap on a bike, just love riding the things.

BTW if someone looks like they are hurting I have no problem towing them along.

aracer – we must be watching a different race.

continental riders are far more organised, disciplined and prepared to work together IME

It'd be interesting to know where that came from. I suspect a lot of the people I see at sportives are not clubmen and aren't used to working in a group at all. The fastest sportive I've done we went a huge distance in a group of Essex Roads boys, who were very well drilled. Part of why it worked I think was that their hard man was willing to peel off and take a rest while I pulled, even though the average speed reliably dropped 2mph while I was on the front. 🙂

Can all get a bit tactical, but the best way is to break up the size of the group instead of towing 10 people along. Also, in a big group, don't go to the back when you've done your turn, just aim to slot in about half way down. Small accelerations can drag the fitter guys out and leave those just hanging on behind, but the best thing to do is sit up after your turn, and shout at the feckers; once you've taken on that gobby leader role it's amazing how the psychology kicks in.

Sitting half way down the group and allowing a gap to form makes people come round you to shut the gap, and is a very effective way of judging who is sitting in and who is fecked.

Use the wind; try to time your turns so you aren't doing too much into a block headwind, and don't be scared to use a mini echelon with sidewinds; another really effective way of dropping the slackers.

Keep a constant speed up any small hills; soon sorts out who can and who can't…

…and as Smee says, if you are a strong lad, there is much fun to be had keeping a group together, shutting the gaps yourself, gentle pushes to keep people on the back, taking longer pulls, we call it 'playing the sweeper'.

Every so often I think about doing an organised road ride but then a thread like this comes along and puts me off. Its not the TdF its a fun ride.

I don't understand this, you said yesterdays tactic was to go off the front of my start group right from the start and see how long I could stay away for. It almost worked – 100miles of a 110mile event. Puncture and running out of energy 10 miles from the end is not nice.

So did you pull people along for the last 10 miles when you were knackered. And surely no one was on your wheel for that horrible descent from Green Lowther.

I did this event too yesterday and about 20 odd minutes faster than you and that included going at my pals slow pace for the first 50 miles. Any group I was in I did my turn, peeling off to the left when I wanted someone else to come through. Of course I had people hanging on my wheel but it doesn't bother me. I'm quite happy if some exhausted rider wants to take an easy ride for a bit. The stretch up the a701 was hard going for some, I felt pretty good so was more than happy to help others along. If I had been bothered I would have asked them to do a turn, did you try that? And if id did start to irritate me I just accelerated away. If you're at the back of a group you don't know what's going on at the front, you could have tagged on with a group of mates and feel you don't want to push in to take a turn – if one clown is prepared to do all the work and not say anything then that's their problem.

Sportives are full of people who don't normally ride in groups and don't know what to do, it's not a problem

What I don't really understand is why anyone would want to sit on a riders whel that had a finishing time of 7 hours as you're clearly not that good.

It'd be interesting to know where that came from.

I don't know. I suspect a combination of more club riding in France, Netherlands, Belgium and Italy (the only European contries I have ridden in) and the fact that cycling is more culturally embedded than over here. The Belgians in particular seem to be uniformly great riders (and live up to their hard man image) – my favourite country for cycling so far.

I suspect a lot of the people I see at sportives are not clubmen and aren't used to working in a group at all.

All the joking aside up there, this is exactly what it is. Sportives are a relatively new invention over here, and so have expanded the "customer" base away from trational audaxers or clubmen out for a tear up in a reliability ride. Many of those who ride sportives are doing so as their first entry into "serious" cycling, and so they have not (or will never) progressed to club riding.

Club riders go through the age old training of learning to ride in a group, being instructed and encouraged (and sometimes shouited at) by the older members, and making the mistake of rideing with the fast boys out of a high paced training ride…. 🙂

I can't say I'm surpised when, during a sportive, people sit on one's wheel. I'm no group engine by any means, but I think that if you ride at a steady pace, you'll attract people who think your wheel is a safe bet. So long as they're not lunatic triathletes (who seem, universally, to be an absolute menace on the road), I have no real objection.

Gary_M you would appear to have missed the point, and half of my posts, completely.

aracer – we must be watching a different race.

Either that or you're watching the wrong bits – try looking at the TTT or a breakaway, or even the main pack when the hammer's down.

I'm always humbled by how much faster than me the average STWer is, just one of those things I guess. I'd never dare try to hang with you guys on the road. I've done a couple of sportives this year – Whitton and Dragon Ride – and was mildly amused by the number of people who seem to be under the illusion that they're taking part in the Tour.

yesterdays tactic was to go off the front of my start group right from the start and see how long I could stay away for

Suggests you rode on your own for 100miles. Are you saying the group you set off with stayed together for 100miles then caught you. Out of interest what time did you set off?

Difference is at race pace the effort is so high and there are relatively few rider so that you spend little time on the front and two lines don't develop.

In a club ride/chaingang two rows is optimal.

I dont know – Is it because you cant read?

In a club ride/chaingang two rows is optimal.

Optimal because you can chat to the bloke next to you, not for any other reason.

Difference is at race pace the effort is so high and there are relatively few rider so that you spend little time on the front and two lines don't develop.

On the contrary, with a properly working rotating double line (as opposed to a sociable club ride double line), you spend less time on the front than in a single line. Surely though we're talking about people trying to get round a sportive as quickly as possible, in which case it is "race pace" in the context.

Sorry but comparing a sportiv to the tour is comical.

If you have say 20 riders then a second line shields the slower riders from the wind and so they have less of a jump to make back to the fast line.

I'm confused about this though. If you rode to Elvanfoot in 5:15 then you must have passed me. If it then took you 1:45 to do the next 10 miles then I must have passed you. Now I rode to Leadhills with 2 other guys and we didn't pass anyone either fixing a puncture or totally bonked. I did pass a guy on the a701 who I saw stopping behind me at Elvanfoot then didn't see him again – was that you?

So purely out of interest what time did you set off and where did you get your puncture.

Gary_M, you're over-analysing this. Smee is writing a dissertation on "Fabrication and Abuse as Triggers for Irritation in Internet-Based Communities" and is simply gathering material. 😉

As soon as the Tour comes on everyone thinks they're some kind of pro in some kind of race…

You are in a Sportive, it's not competitive. If some tired riders want to sit on your wheel then what is your problem. You will be going quicker with them on there than without. If it really bugs you drop back then accelerate fast, but why would it bug you?

I think you are getting confused with races, in which case if a rider can sit on your wheel to win then they will.

BigDummy I need some facts cleared up, I hate being confused on a Monday. I was also going to ask what he was wearing and what bike he was riding but I thought that was pushing things too far 😉

Completely agree traildog.

Does this explain all the dust I got in my eyes yesterday? 🙂

I agree about people at this sort of event not knowing how to ride in a group, because I'm one of them. Only my second ever sportive and I'm not in a club, so no surprise there. It is a sportive though, not a race, and I think more experienced guys have to allow for this – how else are novices like me supposed to learn?

I did 30-odd miles with a fast group of four (before mechanicals broke us up) and I think I pissed them off a bit to start with – I wanted to do my fair share at the front but didn't realise I had to ease off when I hit the front to stop everyone else needing to sprint. They kept me right after a while and we settled into a cracking rhythm. Most enjoyable!

The end was brutal, although I've done most of the route before I didn't acknowledge quite how steep the end was. Ended up a whisker under 6 hours – was happy for a minute until someone told me someone had posted 5 hours 6 min!

5h 6mins – thats an incredibly time in those conditions.

I set off between 9:15 and 9:30, not entirely sure exactly as I just went when I was ready to avoid getting cold. Got puncture just after the start of the red tarmac stuff of the climb to Leadhills. Decided to shelter out of the wind after a couple of mins as i was snapping tyre levers trying to get the tyre off.

Was riding a Bianchi 928 and wearing a black gilet.