I know i need a little more space up top so which way would you do it. What difference does it make? At the moment i have a 70mm stem and a thomson inline post i think i need about an extra 20mm

layback, gives you the extra reach and doesn’t alter your steering

ok might try and sell my thomson then

A longer stem will slow down your steering slightly and a layback post will give you the extra room, but will also put you further behind the bottom bracket. Makes descending a bit more secure, but can also reduce your climbing efficiency. Depends on how you like your bike to feel.

but…

if you climb stood up or “perched” on the end of your saddle you’ll still be able to climb without you being leaning over the front wheel on the descents, that said that can make a bike feel “quicker”

Personally I use a short stem and a layback (both thomson)

I had this problem with a frame once. I fannied around with layback seatposts and longer stems but eventually just sold the thing as nothing really worked that well.

20mm? Put your saddle back by 10mm, then pretend your arms are a bit shorter.

20mm is not really worth bothering about, it’s 2cm, this much[………….], I wouldn’t be buying anything to make that kind of a change.

my seat is all the way back on the rails and silly as it sounds i really do think id benefit from just a little more space. Im pretty sure the frame is the right size its a medium pace 405 and i come in at 5,9 31″ inside leg

frame sounds like the right size.

most frames these days are designed arround a layback seatost, with the exception of tompson ive not seen many inline posts spec’d in years.

moving the seat arround changes the angle of your hips/legs/knees which affect pedling (kneecap should hover over the axel at the 3o’clock position). Moving the saddle can feel like double any movement you make as having a steep seat angle with a horisontal seat pushes your torso upright to keep the pressure even accross the saddle (TT riders tilt it forewards to compensate).

Get the saddle set up correctly wth your knees in the right place while pedling, then see how it feels, once its correct try a longer stem, 90mm is still fairly short, and probably about right for most uses.

Spoon are you saying i should try the layback first then

Wider bar.

Do as Spoon says, I had a similar problem then I learnt that your knee needs to be over the pedal axle when your cranks are horizontal. Once you have done this change your stem to give you the reach that you want. It will be right.