Likening Armstrong to Jimmy Saville the sound of scraping barrels.

I did not I gave an example of someone else – remember he was knighted so one would assume a “hero” for his charitable works- who was also flawed
Unless you wish to argue that saville is not actually tainted and grubby as the OP describes LA.
I dont really see why the point does not stand but you are free to have your own opinions

Clearly Saville is worse than LA and I am not saying what LA did is as bad as being a sex offender – I think it would be scrapping a barrel to even make that inference or claim i did.

So what were they supposed to do?

Exactly !, which is when you see riders like Millar, who had reached the Pro level, only to be blown away by the EPO brigade.

In his book, he claimed to hold-out and refuse to dope. But if you’re hired to race and race to win. Then what are you supposed to do ?.

Clearly Saville is worse than LA and I am not saying what LA did is as bad as being a sex offender
Yes. I’m, however, slightly distrubed with the JS stuff. I’d ask everyone not to bring him into a debate about LA, but I fear that request will be ignored.
🙁

it’s what makes a winner a winner.

Like those 7 tour titles he won lost

Anyone who thinks that the cancer charity side of Armstrong is still something to admire should have a read of this:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html?page=all

If every rider had been clean on those Tours would he still have won?

But here’s the fundamental issue for me: doping is cheating. In professional sport someone who wins by cheating is basically stealing from anyone they beat who’s not cheating. It’s a form of theft really.

In 25 years of being an avid road cycling fan it turns out that everyone of my ‘heroes’ has been a doper.

yep, mine too. it stinks.
but I understand people’s reluctance to believe it (I felt like that too)

In 25 years of being an avid road cycling fan it turns out that everyone of my ‘heroes’ has been a doper.

Not a Boardman or Obree fan then?

So what were they supposed to do?

Stand up as a decent human being and stand by the sporting principles they claim to follow.

mcboo – Member

Hero

Good Joke. LOLz

Millar admitted what he did (was he caught or test positive?) and has worked tirelessly against doping. Hero.

Millar admitted what he did (was he caught or test positive?) and has worked tirelessly against doping. Hero

😆

[edit]For balance[/edit]

Yeah working against doping is good but he is no hero to me.

Lance is still a hero

Hmmmmm no he isn’t

This is a hero

*swoons*

Even if you can rationalise the cheating I fail to see how you can ignore the bullying and intimidation of whistle blowers, and pressurising young riders to cheat too.

Interesting choice of hero. I hope you’re not telling your kids he’s a good role model.

Not a Boardman or Obree fan then?

Both great cyclist’s but not on my heroes list. Be boring if we were all the same though.

Regarding all the favourite cyclists being dopers.
It’s a real shame, but with a lot of people saying that this year’s tour was ‘boring’, we can expect the doping to continue.

I think that’s ultimately why the UCI left dopers alone, they brought excitement to the sport which brought money and opportunity.

People seem to forget when discussing this, what it takes to become a champion. It takes balls, it takes arrogance, it takes the barking of orders, high demands and just being a bloody pain in the arse.

Nice guys finish last.

The last time I checked, Steve Peat and Tracy Moseley were neither arrogant, nor pains in the arse. Quite the opposite in fact.

In 25 years of being an avid road cycling fan it turns out that everyone of my ‘heroes’ has been a doper.

+1

Probably why I’m no longer really a fan of bike racing.

Didn’t Gilbert ride for Lance as a domestic during one of the TdF?

Wonder if he knew about the doping programme?

Who gives a shit. Heroes are for Hero Worshipers. Honestly some of you folks deserve all you get for investing your emotions so cheaply.
I hope a few people are sufficiently dissilusioned by this racket to take a long hard look at themselves and get bloody real.

[stands up and applauds cheese@4p]

BTW, if any worshipers are looking for a new hero, then I’m pretty awesome.

All professional sportsmen/women will cheat, some cheat big and some cheat small….doesn’t matter what the sport is, if there getting paid to do it, they will cheat. you want to see sport where people don’t cheat…come to think of it there arn’t any.

The last time I checked, Steve Peat and Tracy Moseley were neither arrogant, nor pains in the arse. Quite the opposite in fact.

Wonder what the drug testing regime is like in DH? 😈

Agree about hero worship nevertheless being a good idea.

All professional sportsmen/women will cheat, some cheat big and some cheat small….doesn’t matter what the sport is, if there getting paid to do it, they will cheat. you want to see sport where people don’t cheat…come to think of it there arn’t any.

remove sportsmen/women and replace with any job title where results are what get you paid. The number of reps who manipulate the truth to get a sale is frankly shocking. You only have to think about the cliced doubleglazing salesman…. Then you have the little white lies that get used by the office politicians to remove the opposition.

Life is full of cheats, question is why do you do what you do?

Life is full of cheats, question is why do you do what you do?

It just seems to be in our nature…very few people can say they’ve never lied or cheated.

Weird thing about cheating Neil Back cheated Munster but even the Munster players called in “gamesmanship”

All professional sportsmen/women will cheat, some cheat big and some cheat small….doesn’t matter what the sport is, if there getting paid to do it, they will cheat. you want to see sport where people don’t cheat…come to think of it there arn’t any.

Golf is pretty amazing in that players themselves ask for replays to see if they cheated and they disqualify themselves.

None of my heroes describe old friends as “prostitute and alcoholic” in public. Classy guy.

Arseholes can beat cancer too.

^^^ post of the day 🙂

good call on golf, does seem to be one of the truthful games.

As above ^^^ I don’t really have heros, or owt like that. But I do appreciate a good champion, which is why it has been fantastic to see people like Wiggins, Hoy, Pendleton, etc, etc. win and win well.

I’m sorry if cycle racing has been ruined for some folk, by LA’s actions. But consider the good guys out there who are doing there best to adhere and abide by the highest principles of sportsmanship.

For example, in the TDF, when Wiggins held the peloton back for Evans, after the tacs issue. For me, that spoke lots about Wiggins as a competitor and as a sportsman and while he might be in a minority, I’m sure he’s not alone in wanting to win, the right way.

So, for me, there is hope, that things will improve after all this LA business. That there are sports people who while possibly seeing an opportunity to “cheat”, refuse to do so, in order to maintain the integrity of their sport and their successes.

He still won 7 Tours

No he didn’t

All professional sportsmen/women will cheat, some cheat big and some cheat small….doesn’t matter what the sport is, if there getting paid to do it, they will cheat. you want to see sport where people don’t cheat…come to think of it there arn’t any.

There’s a few cricketers like Sachin Tendulkar who are known for walking if they know they’re out, even if the umpire hasn’t given it.

good post Solo:-)

“Wonder what the drug testing regime is like in DH?”
Seems to be similar to road racing. Podium finishers get tested, plus random riders, plus out of competition tests too.

Is that checking to see that they’re taking enough drugs? I’d need lots and lots to give me the balls to do that.

what drug would improve you going downhill faster?
that is a serious question are there any?
nothing recreational worked for me 😉

Steroids and HGH for building strength, EPO for endurance (try racing downhill for 5 mins its bloody knackering) and beta blockers to help stop you overcooking on your own adrenaline.

Of course he’s a Bully, manipulative, single minded, win at all costs……This is a criteria for winning. Many, many business people have the same mentality. What..do you want all your champions to be virtual mates, to be people to have a drink with? To be nice

The reality is that people who have achieved a lot in life are not particularly likeable.

reality is that people who have achieved a lot in life are not particularly likeable.

Not sure that being likeable or not has any link to either morality or winning. If you are immoral you have option of cheating, of course.