I personally think he’s done more for cycling ‘in general’ & certainly more for cancer funds than any individual!

Recent cinema documentary was excellent & gave a frank view of cycling in that era…

Bully and a liar. Nice guy

strong & charismatic would be an alternative view?

Total karnt.

Oh no……..

I know I should just leave this alone, but:

FTFY

inspirational in his era? just look at the wet blankets of today… froom? & omg ‘wiggins’

armstrong turned over £30 million via livestrong… what an impact for cancer research!

Research? Or cancer ‘awareness’?

The none cheating, none bullying wet blankets of today?

I feel sorry for him.

He faced a very tough situation…

He trained hard all of his life to be a professional cyclist and when he finally made it he found that he was expected to cheat and take drugs or lose any chance of winning EVER.

He made a choice that, in hindsight, helped no-one. He has my sympathy and I wish all those that forced this choice upon him as much misery as they’ve brought him.

Can you point to any significant research funded by livestrong?

they were all ‘doing it’ back in the day ferv, he was pretty much made a scape goat, sad stuff really… doc well worth a watch, eye opener…

He is a lying, cheating, thieving see you next tuesday.

FTFY (I can do this all night)

Yeah, just like Chris Boardman, which is clearly why he didn’t win anything EVER.

aracer… well done, crosssing out stuff like a propper grown up? ha

doc… defo worth a see, a different perspectice for sure!

strong & charismatic would be an alternative view?

He is undoubtedly that, but he is also a liar and a cheat, and cheats should have no place in sport at any level. So I’m glad he got found out. What I don’t like is the way he is treated as the devil incarnate whilst all the other cheats and liars are treated as poor misguided souls that were victims of cycling’s PED culture. Treat them all the same, life bans, 2 years, 4 years? whatever the punishment for cheating should be, it should be applied evenly and universally.

Livestrong is his pension. He’s the biggest beneficiary by way of appearance fees for cancer ‘awareness’ events. Not too shabby either at a $500m pension fund!

mw… perfect overview! love it

& ‘6 month ban, out of season’ was the general punishment for dropping la in dock!

all about money, everyone wanting a bit back… very sad

I thought Livestrong booted him out?

Fantastic, haven’t had a good troll thread on here for ages. 😀

You’re suggesting that all of those he coerced into doping (because those who didn’t found they no longer had a place on his team, with its carefully coordinated drugs programme headed by him) should be treated in exactly the same way as the bully/ringleader/drugs pusher? The thing is, there is a lot more to this than him just having taken drugs, and it’s all those other aspects of his personality (bully, sociopath etc.) which makes him so much worse and so deserving of any punishment which comes his way. There’s a pretty clear case that he helped to perpetuate and increase the use of drugs in sport in a way which wouldn’t have happened without him, and that’s certainly not something you can say about the vast majority of the other drugs takers. Happy to accept the concept of Ulrich being a victim, but it just doesn’t wash with somebody as manipulative as LA.

after watching doc, got to love him, all his opponents back in the day did & they were all ‘at it’… at least it was exciting times! unlike our gb wiggins… dour

I felt let down. After years of thinking what an inspiration he was and hearing how he was the most tested athlete in history, it felt like an utter betrayal in my faith in him to find out he was lying/cheating the system all that time.

I get that a lot of people were doing it at the time, but to me that’s not the point. It’s a kick in the nuts for everyone who believed in him and supposedly what he stood for.

The bullying just made it worse.

Cancer awareness does save lives in the here and now. Much of what Livestrong does is in America and doesn’t really come up on our radar. Stuff like dealing with insurance companies can mean life or death in the US. Pretty much agree with the “level playing field” argument as well. What completely sets Armstrong apart was his rabid attacks on people who dared challenge him. People who were as it’s been proved were telling the truth. Untill he can personally reconcile himself with these “victims” there’s no way back IMHO.

they were all ‘doing it’ back in the day ferv, he was pretty much made a scape goat, sad stuff really… doc well worth a watch, eye opener.

Yes, but I don’t understand your reasoning that it makes our most recent champions ‘wet blankets’. Are you suggesting that the sport is now lacking without the cheating, lying, manipulating, bullying, controlling and vindictive behaviour of Armstrongs like?

I can accept that Armstrong has been made an enormous scapegoat for the sports past ills but Armstrong was the enormous star with the enormous global following and the enormous bank balance as a result. His fall from grace is entirely of his own making and is only as spectacular as it is due to the fact he had such a high place to fall from. I have no sympathy.

aracer.: I think my post may be in danger of being misconstrued.

I don’t buy the idea of any of them as victims, Ullrich, Pantani, Riis, Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis etc. All liars and cheats, all should face the same punishment.

It’s widening the debate a bit but I also think that punishment should be universal to anyone that makes their living from any sport not just cycling. The idea that cycling should push for 4 year or life bans when rugby, tennis, football, baseball, ice hockey etc are apparently making very little effort is a disgrace.

EDIT:

after watching doc, got to love him, all his opponents back in the day did & they were all ‘at it’… at least it was exciting times! unlike our gb wiggins… dour

I also think that is bullshit propagated by the liars and cheats to win public support and ease their consciences. I don’t doubt that it was rife and that a high percentage of riders undermined their sport and their supporters by cheating but somewhere in every race there would have been people riding clean. Sadly we’ll never know who they were or how good they were because we can’t ever be certain of having seen a fair fight. It may be that given a level playing field the Pantani’s, LA’s and Ulrich’s would have risen to the top anyway or maybe someone we’ve barely heard of should have been one of the great cyclists of his generation.

Yup , liar , bully , manipulative , arrogant etc etc. That said (and Im not a fan) he probably did more for cycling and cancer awareness at the time than anyone in history.

I watched ‘The Armstrong Lie’ and have read every book on the subject but couldn’t help but almost feel sorry for him even knowing he has the ability to avoid the truth at every cost. He was still with or without PED’s the greatest grand tour cyclist for a decade.

Name more than 5 clean cyclists in Armstrong’s time. ?

It wasn’t just the fact he was a cheat and a liar. It was that he had the legal clout to ruin the lives of anyone who dared to challenge him. That’s why he is seen as worse than others I think. No pity for him at all.

tenfoot – Member
I felt let down. After years of thinking what an inspiration he was and hearing how he was the most tested athlete in history, it felt like an utter betrayal in my faith in him to find out he was lying/cheating the system all that time…

+1

I’d like to go through this forum and delete the posts in which I defended him up to the bitter end.

Life bans for all drug cheats. No redemption, no weaselling back in.

A cheat, plain and simple.

Anyone who thinks livestrong wasn’t about lance, for lance, needs to take a long hard look at their lpersonal assessment criteria.

Maybe the world needs to be grateful he found cycling to express himself in. Otherwise it could have been politics.

And, if his PR machine gets enough momentum, could still become one.

Considering the depth of Chemistry in the field, I reckon he did fairly well!

I’ve got mixed feelings about this.

I’m completely with the ‘no place for performance enhancing drugs’, but as various have posted, if you’re going to bring the ban hammer down, then it has to be even or else it’s not justice, it’s bullying in itself. The singleminded pursuit and takedown of Armstrong felt just like he was personally being removed because someone wanted it done as opposed to any high and mighty reasons of fairness.

Take Mercxx. Greatest cyclist ever etc. Except out of several dope fails he even held his hands up at one, and the first was popularly blamed on a scam to help the Mafia win a bet. Lively life, domineering, attacked on Tour, politely asked not to race one year … it goes on.

Armstrong is a product of our system. Give it 20 years and see what happens. Possibly his biggest mistake after starting doping was not owning up soon enough when the strident voices began.

Maybe it’s time to really get the brush out and clean up all the questionable activity (not just doping) in sport – but at least be even handed about it.

Godwin incoming…

You might as well say Hitler did more for the founding of the State of Israel than any individual.

This is not meant, in any way, as a direct comparison.

I don’t buy the idea of any of them as victims, Ullrich, Pantani, Riis, Hamilton, Hincapie, Landis etc. All liars and cheats, all should face the same punishment.

Bllx. Each individual should be punished relative to the scale of cheating, their influence in that cheating, and the level of reward gained. And finally, the last factor to consider. Did they admit what they did, apologise, and how much time did they take to do so.

Are you new here OP?

Do the “right” things we do in life mitigate the “wrongs”? Not really in my opinion.

I don’t think any one who is competitive at a world level is a nice person. Every action is calculated to increase their chances to win. Armstrong did this better than the rest.

Cheater/liar/inspiration/hero – it’s a fine line between them in an ultracompetitive world.

Funny thing is we would never even hear of this if the cycling was organised like every other professional sport (with the teams controlling the money rather than the organisers).

I personally think he’s done more for cycling ‘in general’

I wish he’d chosen to stick with Tri.

Lance didn’t advance cycling, he advanced Lance. he just happened to be a cyclist. The media were obsessed with the cancer survivor-comeback to glory story and the UCI let that happen, and too many people who made too much money from that story chose to look the other way as well.

Like all sociapaths, he could be generous and affable, and could at the same time behind the scenes be bullying conniving and manipulative and more importantly probably still is. I think one should view any report/documentary/article that attempts to reconstruct him with a measure of perspective and scepticism

I’ve not seen the film as I don’t want to add to his ego/pension fund in any way, but does it cover his bullying of Frankie and Betsy Andreu? His destroying of Emma Reily? His public humiliation and career ending of Christophe Basson? His public abuse even of Tyler Hamilton?

These acts are what sets him apart from the other drug cheats of the time and the reason why he has been treated differently.

And as for raising money for cancer, well I think that has now been shown that a substantial proportion of that money was paid to LA for appearance fees for after dinner speaking etc. Not what most people thought their money was going to when they bought their yellow wristbands…

He should go to prison then live out his life in obscurity and poverty.