Perhaps the dog was blinded by his lights?!

Which is irrelevant – as the owner you are responsible for a dog’s actions whether or not you knew what it was going to do.

I’m fairly sure you’d find that trying to make a legal case of that approach would quickly degenerate into judgement of what the owner can be reasonably expected to forsee. Anything else would necessitate having all dogs on leads all the time.
Look at it this way, who would have been responsible if the animal in question was a horse being ridden by it’s owner and the horse was startled and turned in front of the bike? Or how about something else about the size and predictability of a dog, a child?

I don’t see the problem. The current legal default is dogs on leads, if not you’d better have them under control or be liable for any resulting damage. As an owner you are responsible, it makes no difference what you can “reasonably foresee”.

Insert Troll or stupid pic here
We have to warn the dog ?

Well yes, if it’s got it’s nose in something stinky and it’s very clear it hasn’t seen/heard you,it would kinda make sense, wouldn’t it.
Or just slow down…

That’s if youknow the dog is there, of course.

If it’s a path that’s used for walking and cycling, then technically it’s probably denoted as a cycle track, which would be part of the highway network, so there may be a legal duty to report an accident that resulted in injury to the police.

Anything else would necessitate having all dogs on leads all the time.

Dare to dream eh? Then it would be a short step to having them all shot. One day maybe.

If this happened how the OP says it happened (and that is all we have to make a judgement) then the bloke with the dog should pay up for the damaged gear and any other losses the OP suffers. Shit happens is typical dog owner rubbish. OP said it was a shared walking and cycling path not a bloody dog walking alley. How the hell was he expected to see a dog running out from behind another bike in the dark?

I don’t see the problem. The current legal default is dogs on leads, if not you’d better have them under control or be liable for any resulting damage. As an owner you are responsible, it makes no difference what you can “reasonably foresee”.

I’m playing devils advocate a bit but it’s not hard to imagine a dog / cyclist collision which was the cyclists fault for riding into a dog they should easily have been able to see. What if you ride straight into a dog on a lead? Who’s fault now?

I hit a full sized German Shepherd dog while going at speed on a canal towpath. It was daylight and I wasn’t going to slow down to see if it was going to lick or bite me. I accelerated, hit the dog ‘amidships’ and it bounced off my front tyre into the undergrowth. The owners were nearby. As they were a group of at least 5 ‘Pikeys’ currently burning insulation off a large pile of copper wire at the time, I didn’t stop to see if the dog was ok as I wasn’t currently wearing a stabvest!

Moral: go faster and the dogs will bounce off…
I was on my old 26 inch wheel bike. Now, I have a 29er so I expect even greater protection.

My front tyre was attacked last year by an out of control Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I had made the mistake of slowing down…
I regularly get chased by a loose dog on a local ride. I make a point of staying just out of reach for as long as possible in order to lead it as far from it’s home as I can.
I don’t like dogs. I regard all dogs that come towards me unsolicited as I would a mugger approaching with a drawn knife. In my opinion, effectively, they are armed with similar weapons.
Yes, I have been bitten. I was a meter reader many years ago.

Well yes, if it’s got it’s nose in something stinky and it’s very clear it hasn’t seen/heard you,it would kinda make sense,

Kinda makes sense that you warn your dog as you know its there and its spooked by bikes and its your responsibility.

Another in the accidents happen camp. Hope you’re not too shaken up OP and everything is fixable.

As for the people commenting about not needing to slow down or warn dogs (and their owners) you come across as inconsiderate, selfish ****s. Well done.

the only good thing about threads like this is **** self outing themselves

We agree on something!

Tough one really.

I get peed off with people with dogs at trail centres who think their dog should be able to get in the way.

On a shared path at night in the dark, if I had my dog (now departed) with me, I would have made sure she was lit up, and under control when a cyclist came towards me.

I hope the dogs ok though. 🙁

Your fault for introducing a completely unrelated incident. If the dog didn’t run in front of the cyclist, then clearly the cyclist should have seen and avoided it (I’m assuming you’re suggesting a dog under control on a lead, not on the end of a bit of fishing line). That’s not what we’re discussing.

It wasn’t lit, we both had bright lights on but we were both managing to approach each other without blinding each other. I tilted my light down when I spotted him up ahead. His light stayed the same and I just looked at the path ahead to avoid being dazzled.

It IS bad luck but when I’ve got a swollen hand,can’t work because my hand now only closes half way, and I’ve got a big red scuff on my chin thats numb, it’s not great is it? I didn’t do anything wrong to deserve this. It’s a shared walkers path/cycle path. If someone is riding towards me with a slight descent and tailwind on his side, dog in pursuit, I think he should have slowed down. I had the Garmin running, my average speed through the ride was 16kph, I reckon the speed at the accident was around 12kph.

Walkers are allowed,cyclists are allowed, dogs not under control causing all this injury is just not on. He was riding with a dog, if he tried to say it was on a leash then that would be daft as it ran off. Even if it was leashed, how dangerous is this to ride a bike with a dog attatched to it? I was riding on a path I’m allowed to ride on, a dog was out of control, I need a new helmet and I’m supposed to be working for the next two weeks in a shop all on my own,which I won’t be able to perform the stuff my boss is expecting me to do. The scratched light and lever doesn’t bother me.I need a new helmet which doesn’t bother me too much either, I’m glad I’m not killed considering the crack through the forehead area of the Hex, It’s cracked right through to the vent. I have had mild concussion, ligaments thrashed in my hand, various other scuffs and feeling out of it today. If someone chooses to run a dog off it’s leash, beside him on the bike, in the pitch black with blinding lights without slowing down to control the dog like many many dog owners do, then why should I suffer and expect ‘tough luck’? I’m not wanting a new light,lever and helmet. It’s around the figure I said above but I only want the cost of the helmet that I paid. My eVent jacket and gloves are scuffed and holed but I was mountain biking, I’m not wanting to go on a full on claim spree.

I also worry about the dog, it’s not it’s fault, the owners doing. We seen each other for at least a minute and he never altered his riding or tried to control the dog. Now that I think about it, if i owned a dog and was riding towards a cyclist in the pitch black with our lights fairly high powered, I’d not think twice about slowing down to try and control the dog. You just don’t continue with a black dog in the darkness of night at cycling speeds. This is the reason.. and I’ve got this to sort out. I really do hope the dog is ok and they found him but this is entirely his fault. A bike with a bright light hides a black dog running willy nilly behind his rear wheel. Nobody would’ve avoided it. I’m now thinking that my hands never left the bars with the speed I went down. I never got my palms out.

Edit: Yes I know the dog may be injured or dead. My injuries are not my fault. The dog getting injured or killed is not my fault. It’s a result of me hitting it through his choice of actions but I’ve done nothing wrong. If I had a dog and ran it of the leash and caused these injuries to someone, I would expect to have to pay out. I would also accept that my dog’s injury or death was basically my own doing. How can anyone see it from any other point of view?

Alternatively those people who think cyclists should have to do something special when riding on a cycle path because they’ve got their easily spooked dog with them (which they know is easily spooked, but the cyclist doesn’t) appear to be wanting other people to do something to avoid them having to…

In those circumstances, yes, it’s probably the dog owners fault but unfortunately without his good will to help you out you will really struggle to prove it and get anything out of him.

I also worry about the dog, it’s not it’s fault, the owners doing. We seen each other for at least a minute and he never altered his riding or tried to control the dog. Now that I think about it, if i owned a dog and was riding towards a cyclist in the pitch black with our lights fairly high powered, I’d not think twice about slowing down to try and control the dog. You just don’t continue with a black dog in the darkness of night at cycling speeds. This is the reason

Everything you are saying should have happened, should have happened. One guy’s inaction/lack of imagination has resulted in you and his dog paying the price. That is very unfair, and I sympathise with you. He should have insurance…

not needing to slow down or warn dogs (and their owners) you come across as inconsiderate, selfish ****s. Well done.

arse over head logic

You may well need to slow down but now we have to warn the owner as well as the dog that we are on a cycle path cycling towards them. Is this not a bit obvious or are they both distracted sniffing shit 😕

Do i need to warn pedestrians when i walk by shouting loudly I am walking towards you ?

EDIT: or what aracer said

you take a dog outt in public and seem to think it is everyone else responsibility to warn it and make sure it does not “spook” but the owner of said animal who brought it there,

Again not sure if serious or trolling.

On a shared path at night in the dark, if I had my dog (now departed) with me, I would have made sure she was lit up, and under control when a cyclist came towards me.

Sorry to hear it’s now gone :O\

Yeah, this is my thought, if you ride a dog down a path, it’s running along and you have no control of it’s direction. On trails, people that take dogs out you find that they run behind,in front, crossing whenever they please. Some might be well trained to stay to one side but this one just ran from the rear nearside of his bike directly across my path. I had no idea for the 20-40 seconds leading up to the passing there was a dog at all. Just a cyclist.

JY, you didn’t warn me you were going to reply to that, you inconsiderate, selfish ****

If it was my dog.. (this would be a possibility as I take her down a path where we’ve met many people on bikes (none of them crap enough riders to have run into her, and maybe her not stupid enough to get in their way), then I would accept liability and my household insurers would take care of it.
If I ran off and left someone injured by my dog, then I would expect the police to come looking for me.
If the police couldn’t find me, then.. well, what’s done is done eh?

Alternatively those people who think cyclists should have to do something special when riding on a cycle path because they’ve got their easily spooked dog with them (which they know is easily spooked, but the cyclist doesn’t) appear to be wanting other people to do something to avoid them having to…

Cycle path is quite different to a shared use path which I thought was being discussed. Depends on location our local riding (Malvern Hills) is all shared use and I’ll happily say hello, slow down and give space to everyone out walking with or without a dog. Everyone has to get along at the end of the day, in all my years riding I’ve never had a problem.

It does sound like it was unavoidable for the OP in this case, irresponsible and stupid to be taking a dog out in the dark without lights or lead IMO.

Sorry, Willjones. I wrote

Now that I think about it, if i owned a dog and was riding towards a cyclist in the pitch black with our lights fairly high powered, I’d not think twice about slowing down to try and control the dog.

I meant ‘I’d not think twice about slowing down.. as in I’d slow down each and every time as It’s just too dodgy to risk it.’

Even without other cyclists around, why do people risk themselves in the dark doing this?

You say the dog was not under control OP.
The dog was running with his owner in a non confrontational none aggressive manner. That doesn’t sound like a dog out of control. But how would you know as you never saw it.
You didn’t see it, you hit it, you went down.
Again, if he was blinding you should have slowed or possibly stopped.
What if he was riding past a walker at that time.
You would have crashed into the pedestrian and it would be your arse getting taken to court.
This is not taken as a “I love dogs” point of view. It’s a “common bloody sense” point of view.

I don’t like dogs. I regard all dogs that come towards me unsolicited as I would a mugger approaching with a drawn knife. In my opinion, effectively, they are armed with similar weapons.

Stop it my ribs are hurting, that kind of hyperbole isnt good for my still aching stomach muscles…i go into peoples houses all day (and night) and come across all breeds of dog and have never encountered an aggressive one….likewise when cycling the odd one comes over out of curiosity and seeing as i like them i often stop and talk to the owner and give the dog a little scratch and play…again, never been attacked.

One can only imagine the joyless, soulless existence of many on the STW forum as they militantly cycle about their area looking for examples of bad driving to rant about, killer dogs, poorly signed cycle routes etc etc….there’s a reason i dont cycle in groups, i love cycling but i hate cyclists….generally they’re all pricks!

Taking the dog loving/hating element aside for a moment, and I am sorry you’re hurt OP, but what exactly are you asking? Your first post asked

Has anyone had any experience of this? I’m not sure how to go about it all.

The detail about speed, lights, scuffed XT lever, slight incline and tailwind in favour of the other person, just makes you sound like you want some advice on how to extract as much money as possible out of the other person.

If I’m wrong then I apologise, if I’m not then just be honest about what you’re after! The rest is really just noise and fodder for the usual argument about dog ownership and the responsibility it brings.

If you want to get some money out of the dog owner and the police aren’t interested then I would guess you’re looking at small claims court. Otherwise track the dog owner down and ask him for some compo.

Depends on location our local riding (Malvern Hills) is all shared use and I’ll happily say hello, slow down and give space to everyone out walking with or without a dog

Yeah, James. I’m the same. I often come to a complete stop on the path in the daylight if someone is trying to control their dog and bring it back to them. Riding in the blackness, with only one cyclist approaching, you pretty much continue at the same speed if there’s enough room for upto 3 bikes on it. Dark dogs, dark nights, not a good combo!

My local spot too, james. I agree with you about slowing down and giving space to anybody walking up there – I’m fairly sure JY is with us there as well (though it’s not his local, but the principle applies anywhere similar). Those riders who don’t do that when passing walkers (or hooning round blind corners not anticipating the possibility of walkers) are indeed ****s.

However that doesn’t mean there is any particular need to warn dogs or owners on paths which are wide and well surfaced enough that you don’t need to slow down to safely pass pedestrians – which is what we were discussing rather than the Malverns.

Do you think the owner “controlled” the dog to run in front of the OP? Because that’s the only scenario I can see where it was under control.

@martinxyz of course, that’s how I read it. Get well soon.

ooh some right “opinions” here.

Ill declare one thing first. My other half screws dogs (and other things) back together. Considering what they get brought in for if a dog bounces off anythings its bloody lucky. The vet bills for stuff like this are generally large (5k as a starting point) so please don’t go thinking that animals will learn or whatever from being hit by a bike.

Secondly i do a run like the OP’s on a regular basis. Many people have thir digs off lead and just smile when the god goes snapping at your heals, runs infront of your bike etc. I dont like this and consider it inconsiderate. I slow down, warm people and pass quietly. I consider this to e showing consideration to others and i would like dog owners to do the same. Many are very good (holding onto their dogs or tightening the lead when they see a bike. Some are not.

The injurys you sustained could have been a lot worse. We had one member of our group ended up in hospital with a broken back due to a dog running out in front of him. This is how serious it could have been imo. I would attempt to swap details with the guy and face the possibility of a counter claim of large vets bills. I would then look at taking him to court after taking advice from a solicitor.

Isnt the dog only deemed to be under control if it is on a lead? i know that insurers will only pay out if it was on a lead at the time of an accident!

I used to run my dog with my bike off the lead before the traildog fashion thing took hold. I was very aware that he was off the lead and knew the limitations. i.e. if you are on foot or on a bike if your dog is off the lead and causes an accident then the dog owner is at fault as the dog was off the lead and not in proper control.

So OP- you are in the right. The dog has injuries caused by his owners negligence. So why was he aggressive to you?

Again, if a walkers dog OFF THE LEAD ran into a cyclist- we’d all agree it was the dog owners fault. So why should it be any different with a bloke on a bike?

If I was on a trail at a trail centre and a dog was also on the trail I’d ask him/her to put a lead on it and walk it elsewhere.

Iolo, his light and my light would have illuminated a walker between us. His black dog was running on the beach side directly behind him or to his left. If I saw a walker ahead of me on a path riding at 7-10mph into a slight headwind, I’d see them. Re-read before coming back at me with faff. The dog ran out from behind the bike across my path. The path was clear one minute, the next a dog appears from behind the brightly lit bike. If you can’t picture the scenario, head off to another thread.

you didn’t warn me you were going to reply to that, you inconsiderate, selfish ****

Blame whomever let me off the lead

i go into peoples houses all day (and night) and come across all breeds of dog and have never encountered an aggressive one

Yes and every single cyclist I have met was just lovely and every car owner ah you get the picture.
Even if I believed you anecdote is not evidence.
Ah just seen the rest of your post and obvious troll is obvious

As aracer notes shared use paths* are that shared use and they require some sense on both users. I see no way of making other folk responsible for the animal you brought with you but they do need to be considerate of any other trail user but that does not mean they can predict yor dogs reactions or its their responsibility to do this.

* I dont ride anywhere that is just for cyclists so everything i ride is shared with something,

Just looking at it from another side based on all information you have provided in this thread.
I’m sorry for your injuries but seriously, get over it.We all fall off bikes all the time (or at least I do).
EDIT: one thing I don’t get on this story. The dog was behind the other bike so you didn’t see it. Why would it suddenly decide, at the very last minute, to launch itself kamikase style at your bike? Or was the dog just always there and you just didn’t see it?

So OP- you are in the right. The dog has injuries caused by his owners negligence. So why was he aggressive to you?

I mumbled something on the ground about the dog being off the lead. I can’t remember what it was,Hora. When you face plant with only having a split second of the view of the dog before you’re on your knuckles and face. It’s unreal. It leaves you pretty peeved off. I lay there not saying anything or moving with the bike on top of me for minutes. I knew what happened but I couldn’t do anything else. His dog ran across my path and I hit it, I hit the deck and said something about the dog being off the lead or whatever and it pissed him off. His attitude and the way he walked over to me was with a ‘what did you just say?’ attitude. I then said ‘I’ve burst my chin open’ and he changed his tune.

However that doesn’t mean there is any particular need to warn dogs or owners on paths which are wide and well surfaced enough that you don’t need to slow down to safely pass pedestrians – which is what we were discussing rather than the Malverns.

Good to see another local. I agree if there room and and it’s safe then there should be no need to slow down but if theres a dog off the lead (rightly or wrongly) I’d rather ease off the chance an otb!

I just read the opening line “I was riding on a path that’s used for walking and cycling last night.” and (probably wrongly) imagined a similar situation to round here.

Just looking at it from another side based on all information you have provided in this thread.
I’m sorry for your injuries but seriously, get over it.We all fall off bikes all the time (or at least I do).

The accident wouldn’t have happened if the dog was under proper control. Is that hard to accept?

he did not fall of his bike a dog that was not under the control of its owner caused a crash.
IMHO you need to try really hard to not see the distinction