wolves are pack animals and behave very different from feral domestic dogs and even the current thinking of a rigid pack heirachy in wolves is largely dicredited as it was based on studies of captive wolves

I haven’t heard anyone agree with that, ever! How do you work that out?

They are not pack animals in the same way as Wolves, they will come together though to work as a group but then will separate and go their own way. It’s never been particularly proved either way though.

They do listen to Alphas though it’s in their nature but this crap about door ways, feeding them first and not allowing them in the panic room is bollocks. I’ve never ever done that with any of my dogs and never had an aggressive dog in fact they’ve all been the opposite soft as clarts.

I think it depends on how you define ‘pack’ animals. Dogs are highly sociable and like others comfort whether it be humans or other dogs.

I think it moves away from the point that kicking a dog is a stupid thing to do.

I think it depends on how you define ‘pack’ animals. Dogs are highly sociable and like others comfort whether it be humans or other dogs.

That is true, they are social animals for sure though.

LOL!

We tried the going-in-through-the-door first and pretending to eat her food before we fed her thing for a while – TBH, I’m not sure it makes ****-all difference – any of it. She never tries to dominate us or other dogs for that matter.

Reward good stuff.
Ignore bad stuff.

She’s not allowed up on furniture or upstairs. We’ve never had to do anything specific to stop her doing this – so I think it must have been body language/tone of voice when she was a puppy. Fair dues to her though, she has to look at the cats having free reign and she still doesn’t try it on.

However…stopping her saying “hello” to someone in the park if she decides she wants to? Bloody nightmare. Thankfully, because she’s small, very cute and has a “how could you not love me” face, we get away with it. It would be a different story if she were a “big” dog – we’re working on it though. It’s getting better.

EDIT: And thankfully, she’s not likely to come across TeeJ 🙂

to be honest some one would have to be borderline suicidal to kick my dog for pulling on a lead and i doubt that is what really happend

TBH I’ve never given actual ‘training’ much thought. It’s all about attitude and showing the dog what is good/bad/acceptable/unacceptable. I have never bothered about the door/food/sleeping arrangement thing as there is no question as to the pecking order in the house.

IME dogs respond much better to praise for ‘doing well’ than they do to being chastised for any misbehaviour. Tone of voice is usually all that is required.

Should’ve just shown him the bombers.

IME dogs respond much better to praise for ‘doing well’ than they do to being chastised for any misbehaviour. Tone of voice is usually all that is required.

Pretty much all I’ve ever used, the Lab was easy the Border Terriers took/take a bit more telling but as both Borders and Labs are clever dogs they soon learn.

Labs are clever dogs

😆 😕 😯 😉

Talking of training dogs into a pecking order, we’ve just brought our newborn boy home this week and our Irish setter found it bizarre at first but he quickly got used to where he stands (or sits!) in the hierarchy.

some of you really are talking shite. kicking a dog is never justified

No, you’re talking shite. I’ve had to kick a couple of dogs in my time to stop them from attacking me. Swift boot to the face stops a snarling aggressive dog in it’s tracks. Not really something I wanted to to, but at the time was the appropriate course of action to prevent injury to myself. They were clearly badly trained dogs which should not have bin allowed out in any open public area without leads.

I don’t advocate any actual ‘cruelty’ to any creature. There’s no need for it. But there is a need for discipline in certain situations. Don’t sound like the OP is talking about the use of proper force here, just a little tap. Not surprising some folk get all wound up though as usual; stop, think, chill.

Have you seen what dogs do to each other to assert pack heirarchy? I could post pics if you like…

Have you seen what dogs do to each other to assert pack heirarchy? I could post pics if you like…

No doggy porn thanks.

A snarling brute after being disciplined by Elf

I would of kicked the kennel owner if they had kicked my dog.

Oh please. Have a word with yerself…. 🙄

What if the kennel owner was Chuck Norris?

And it’s ‘would have‘, not ‘would of‘. HTH.

When’s the Grand Prix on?

It’s not just going through doors first, it’s everything you’ve else too that makes the difference.
For instance my dog now understands that it’s not allowed to poo on the trail before I have. This means I now have control over which bits of the golf course it shits on.

😆

Oh please. Have a word with yerself….

What if the kennel owner was Chuck Norris?

And it’s ‘would have’, not ‘would of’. HTH.

When’s the Grand Prix on?

And it’s “been“, not “bin”. HTH.

😆

😀

It does not in any way help btw…

Woody – very cute picture and very funny caption 😆

I’ve grown up with dogs, had them all my adult life, and worked with them when I was younger. Personally I think dogs can be the bee’s knees (and mine are obviously the best!), but I also treat any dog I don’t know with a fair bit of respect. If challenged by an aggressive dog then I would repond, but quite often the best way to deal with that type of situation is to back away, give the dog space or a clear escape route.

But most domestic dogs aren’t aggressive and don’t need to trained by using things like choke chains. And I guess it depends on whether the OP is referring to a ‘kick’ or a ‘tap’ (although hands are better than feet for that). Should someone decide to kick my dog in a situation that I considered unnecessary (and I can’t imagine any time when that would be required), then I would give then a right earful! (couldn’t possibly try and hit anyone – I’m far to titchy 🙂 )

Interesting mix of replies, some of you have interesting views thats for sure.
Our dog has been continually trained since we got him, he is generally very good, but still being very young he does get excited when meeting other dog when on lead, just wanting to play.
As my wife is pregnant, I made the comment about controlling the pulling a little better to save him pulling her.
Whatever you view, hitting a dog is never going to get the correct results when training.

You just don’t expect your dog to get booted in the ribs by some **** crazy old woman when you go to pick him up.

Nice dog motorman, collar and head line up nicely but the grass could do with a bit of a trim and a bit of re-seeding is required too.

I can’t be bothered to read the whole thread but a few posts in and it reminded me of an article in yesterdays Independent;

Independent link

Who could kick a nice looking dog like that. 🙂

We have a 14 month old chocolate lab and he can be hard work. Wants to play with everybody and every other dog. Will come back unless he see’s another dog the you’ve no chance. Its a pain but things are improving but we didn’t get him from birth. He’s still a pup and as someone said out and about you’ll miss his daft behaviour when he’s old. Work in progress is how I see it. He ran over to a staffie on the golf course a few weeks ago who was on his lead. The chav on the other end tried kicking scoob but missed so I ran over and invited him to try again 👿

Dogs are animals – they should not be treated like people.

People are animals too, each just needs a bit of understanding to work with. Fairly sure kicking either isn’t the right option. And regardless of whether it’s right or wrong to do it, as the dog is not his he should be treating it as the owner treats it (assuming the owner doesn’t abuse it!).

Earlier this week my mother (68 yrs old) was attacked by a Rottweiler whilst in Southport. The owner was nowhere around*. She got cellulitus as a result of the bite and needed medical attention for 3 days. In response to PPs

you don’t kick dogs. Not ever

if I had been with there with my mother I would have kicked the dog for all I was worth.

* no doubt due to not knowing about the attack the owner would think his/her dog is perfect and describe it as ‘friendly’ and ‘it never bites’

It does not mean we live like monkeys

speak for yourself.. 😐

if dog not show lespect – eat him with the sweet & sour.
den – buy new dog that show lespect.

I’d happily see dogs banned, or at least VERY strict control over who has a dog. Too many are abused, too many kept for the wrong reasons and too many are ill controlled and it makes a normal suburban village a hellish kennels-like aural nightmare on a summers day starting at about 6am and ending at about midnight – every sod has their dog out in the garden barking at a ball, barking at other dogs, charging you when you walk past the fence, getting loose and pooing on your lawn. Possibly the most anti-social pet I can think of.

Sometimes the dog gets their own back though!

http://tinyurl.com/dogkicker

Sometimes the dog gets their own back though!

woof woof

Grim168
I’m sorry to say but the chav was in the right. If I had my dog on it’s lead and another dog came running up to him I would do the same. My dog has just turned two and I spend 5 minutes everyday training him so episodes like that don’t happen. I cannot stand owners of badly trained dogs because they give the owners of well behaved dogs a bad name. If an owner can’t control his/her dog they should either keep it on a lead or don’t have one at all.

I didn’t say he ran over barking and growling in an agressive way just sniffing and playing. Plenty of dogs run over to us when he’s on his lead and if they’re friendly theres no problem. You have to let them off to run off some energy ( i can’t be doing with fat labs ). Thats why I walk him on a disused golf course and not the local park, where there is only really only other dog walkers. He stays on his lead on the park for now.

He ran over to a staffie on the golf course a few weeks ago who was on his lead. The chav on the other end tried kicking scoob but missed so I ran over and invited him to try again

IME avoid dogs on leads as owners tend to do it because the dog has “issues” when off the lead. I used to do whatever the other owner did. there dog on a lead I called mine back,they let there dog wander over I did etc.
Perhaps their dog would have just reacted with aggression and your dog was foolish. the kick may make it think next time and was more gentle than a staff “nip”.

This thread is like the parenting threads in microcosm. People think they know how to deal with dogs and telly you so in simple terms are just lucky in that they have so far not had a dog that didn’t respond.

Social animals are not like people. I am fairly convinced that violence does not mean the same to them as it does to us.

And this argument is a bit pointless because we don’t know if the kennel owner gave an authoritarian tap with a shoe or attacked him viciously.

ernie_lynch – Member

” TandemJeremy – Member

Love the attacks on me.”

If you’re going to behave and not become a nuisance, we’ve got to assert your position in the pack. If that means treating you a little roughly from time to time (the equivalent of a hard nip) so be it.

You know that a good kicking every now and again does you the world of good TJ.

Yes massa

*tugs forelock*

I’ve kicked a dog so hard in the head, it flopped over KO’d on the floor.

Hopefully it will think twice before attacking someone again.

I have zero tolerance for dogs (and their owners) who can’t control them properly.

Wouldn’t hesitate to do it again.

Probably upset a few sensitive people now…

Love a good dog thread on STW – if you want pay me I’ll kick your dog for you. 😛

Love a good dog thread myself, it’s a really good cock-indicator.