A clear – to me – attempt to ridicule and thus trivialise this very serious issue. Genuinely depressing. Really extremely depressing.

Not at all – rather an attempt to ridicule and thus trivialise your attitude to debate, which is to grab any issue that seems to cast Labour and JC in a bad light and then distort it to suit your agenda to the point of just inventing stuff.

DrJ stop trying to cast this as a party political,issue, in doing so you are part of the problem

Here are a selection of quotes from Senior Labour Party figures commenting on the issue (Tom Watson and Baroness Royall) and the OU Jewish Society as well as a Parliamentary declaration signed by Gordon Brown – this has been a long standing issue which has gotten much worse under Corbyn for the very obvious reason that his stance on meeting terrorists such as Hezbollah and Hamas as well as his support for the dangerous mish-mash coalition of Stop the War has emboldened anti-semites to be more public, more active or indeed to join the party. Plus of course we have the statement from John Mann Chairman of the All-Party Group Against Anti-Semitism, I repeat it again

John Mann

For those who thought there wasn’t an antisemitism issue in the Labour Party, this report shows there definitely is:

Baroness Royall on her report: “There is too often a culture of intolerance where Jews are concerned and there are clear incidents of antisemitism“

I know that you will share my disappointment and frustration that the main headline coming out of my inquiry is that there is no institutional Antisemitism in Oxford University Labour Club.  

Tom Watson

As Labour’s Deputy Leader, I will fight to ensure that Britain’s Jews always feel safe as a key part of this country and my party. I will fight to ensure that Zionism is not used as a term of abuse. Or as a code word for Jews. I will fight to ensure that the right to Jewish national self-determination is preserved and respected. Jews are the target of antisemitism – but I will fight to ensure that they are not left to oppose it alone. I am committed to that fight. Whatever it takes.

The Oxford University Jewish society said: “We remain concerned at the lack of any specificity regarding the events investigated. Some of these allegations are shocking and severe.

We are deeply disappointed that there have now been two reports into OULC, and both times the Labour Party has refused to publish any detail on specific incidents.

By suppressing these reports, the Party threatens to undermine its credibility when it comes to tackling anti-semitism within the Labour movement.”

2009 London Declaration, signed by the then Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, 
“Parliamentarians shall expose, challenge and isolate political actors who engage in hate against Jews and target the state of Israel as a Jewish collectivity; 

Its a cover-up, the reports have confirmed numerous instances of anti-semitism including by members of Momentum Corbyn’s campaign group within the Labour Party.

jambalaya – Member

I replied as I wanted you to know I’d read your post as a courtesy but I am genuinely too depressed about this situation to continue posting

If only that were true….

The only person you’re convincing is yourself!

DrJ stop trying to cast this as a party political,issue, in doing so you are part of the problem

Yes anyone who is not a frothing RW Zionist labour hater is definitely part of the problem.
For someone who sails very close to the line re Islam* its is indeed depressing you think you can lecture us on tolerance whilst using this non issue as a way for you to vent your labour hating bile,

* anyone who said Jews were our greatest threat and did not have to obey the law would be anti semitic in your eyes – they would in mine to be clear – but you can say this about islam and that’s s fine. Makes you think – if only you would think 🙄

For the record Livingstone appeared before Parliamentary select commitee invesitgating anti-semitism to explain himself

Chukka Umana is on the committee,

In a fractious exchange, Umunna, the Labour MP for Streatham told Livingstone: “By needlessly and repeatedly offending Jewish people in this way, you’ve not only betrayed our Labour values, you betray your legacy as mayor, because all you are now going to be remembered for is becoming a pin-up for the kind of prejudice that our party was built to fight against. That’s a huge shame and it’s an embarrassment.”

Earlier, Jonathan Arkush, president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said that he had heard Livingstone’s comments about Hitler and Zionism with “complete disbelief” and regarded them as “hateful”.

Accusing Livingstone of bigotry and of being “plainly antisemitic”, he said: “His views are utterly repellant to our community. If Livingstone had made his remarks about any other group, he would be labelled as a political pariah, and that’s what I think he is.”

Guardian Link

Isn’t that supposed to be a forum to investigate what was said and why it was said, not what Chuka thinks personally about Ken?

He sat there and figuratively drove a knife into Kens chest, and twisted it. Oppotunistic agenda?

I can only imagine if he had said, as you did about muslims that jews are the greatest threat to our way of life and they dont have to obey the law

Ken is a dick, his comment was stupid and it gave fuel to false flag fliers like yourself but anti semitism is a BS claim what he said was either true or it was false it was not anti semitic.

OH and for balance the title of the article is
Ken Livingstone: ‘I didn’t say Hitler was a Zionist’

You then ignored EVERYTHING TO CHERRY PICK THe bad bit you big ball of bias you:roll:
the full article to your quote

Ken Livingstone has robustly defended his claim that Adolf Hitler supported Zionism, saying he had been deliberately misrepresented by people who wanted to discredit Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

“If I had said Hitler was a Zionist, I would apologise for that because it’s rubbish,” said the former mayor of London when faced with hostile questioning by MPs.

“If I’d said it, I would agree it was abhorrent. But I didn’t say it. I was stating a simple historical fact.”

But Labour MP Chuka Umunna said Livingstone’s comments had made him a “shame and embarrassment” to the party.

In evidence to the home affairs select committee, Livingstone said that in a radio interview with Vanessa Feltz he had said that Hitler had supported Zionism in the early 1930s as a way of ridding Germany of thousands of Jews. That was not the same as saying Hitler was a Zionist, he added.

He told MPs who are investigating antisemitism: “If I could go back in time and avoid referring to Hitler and Zionism in Vanessa Feltz’s interview, I would. I would go back and remove it because it allowed all the anti-Jeremy people in the Labour party to start whipping this up as an even bigger issue.

“I regret using it because it became this hysterical issue in the midst of our campaign to do well in the local elections and the next day virtually every front page was about me and antisemitism.”

Livingstone’s comments about Hitler and Zionism came amid a spate of suspensions of Labour party officials and activists for making allegedly antisemitic comments on social media. The former mayor was suspended from the party.

Since then, Livingstone told MPs, that “I can’t get down the street without people stopping me and saying we know what you said is true, don’t give in”. Those supporting him were “disproportionately” Jewish, he added.

He conceded that Jewish people had been offended by his remarks “because they have been told a lie”.

He added: “A handful of Labour MPs used this issue, deliberately lied about what I said, and smeared me because they wished to undermine the leader of the Labour party. It’s that simple. And they should be the ones who are suspended.”

Livingstone repeated earlier claims that in his 47 years in the Labour party, he had not encountered antisemitism or racism. “Let’s be honest, if you’re a bigot, the Labour party is not the natural place for you to sign up,” he said.

He had been accused of antisemitism because of his long record of criticism of Israeli government policy towards the Palestinians, he said. “Criticising Israel does not mean you’re a Jew-hater.”

Several times he came close to an apology of sorts. “If anyone’s been hurt by what I said, of course I’m sorry. But I came into politics to tell the truth, and I’ve never knowingly lied.”

Ah, the politicians apology

So if Ken is referring to the Haavara agreement, and this wiki page is accurate :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

where exactly is Ken wrong?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yoU5jNxyKA[/video]

So – He won’t apologise because he never claimed that Hitler was a zionist, he only claimed that Hitler supported zionism 🙄

How many angels can dance on a pinhead?

I haven’t watched it all, because it made me want to smash things:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9gi7ge_JMc[/video]
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgOvyXSe_8w[/video]

He won’t apologise because he never claimed that Hitler was a zionist, he only claimed that Hitler supported zionism

but what is technically innaccurate about that?

from what I can see he supported zionism with that agreement because it was a means to an end, not because he was a zionist. And that’s what Ken said.

ninfan – Member

So – He won’t apologise because he never claimed that Hitler was a zionist, he only claimed that Hitler supported zionism

How many angels can dance on a pinhead?

It is two different things, to be fair. To give another example, Andrew Wylie started the campaign Tories For Corbyn, he supported Corbyn’s campaign for Labour leader but certainly isn’t a Corbynist, he supported something he completely disagrees with for his own reasons. You can support a cause without being part of it or even identifying with it.

It still doesn’t explain why the hell he started dribbling on about Hitler in the first place mind. OTOH I’m yet to see a compelling explanation of why his comments are deemed to be antisemitic. Chukka’s “It just is, it’s obvious” is no better or worse than most.

It still doesn’t explain why the hell he started dribbling on about Hitler in the first place mind

This, Livingstone is one of those politicians who seem to sometimes forget that there’s a camera pointing at him (perhaps that’s what happens when you’ve been the public glare so long, who knows…), and news editors who will take what he sort of sounds like he’s saying and run with it.

It surely must be covered in “Politician 101” : Hitler- how NOT to talk about him…

sometimes forget that there’s a camera pointing at him

@nick in my view he knows exactly when the camera is pointing at him, in fact he positively courts the attention. He was well aware Labour was embroilled in an anti-semitism row after Oxford Uni Labour Club incidents – he was on the radio to speak about it – and he did all he could to inflame the situation. He intended to be as offensive as he could be in as public a way as possible.

A good summary. Stupid comment he’s a idiot for making – and he should make a proper apology because it clearly is going to offend a lot of people. But not anti-semitic – it doesn’t have to be to be offensive. TBH those making a big deal out of claiming it is anti-semitic are just as big idiots (that or they’re just as publicity hungry as him).

Surprise surprise this thread has popped up again, and surprise surprise; the same certain individuals are back to continue pushing their own agenda on here…

“I haven’t watched it all, because it made me want to smash things:”

It’s ok; Chuka Umunna has that effect on most people. Vile, slimy, self-serving ****. The sooner Labour kick the likes of him and John Mann out, the better. To say that Livingstone is an ’embarrassment’ to Labour; Ken has been campaigning against racism, homophobia and injustice his entire political career. Umunna is a Blairite right-wing ex-City boy who has zero interest in anything other than furthering his own career and lining his own pockets. It’s people like Umunna that are an embarrassment to the Left, not Livingstone.

And what the **** is Jonathan Arkush doing on that panel? The Board of Deputies is a right-wing organisation which presents itself as ‘representing British Jewery’, which is a false and dishonest claim. The BoD supports the illegal occupation of Palestine, and defends the Israelis government and military’s actions. Arkush is a nasty little right-wing stooge who will look for any opportunity to smear the Left, and should have no place in what should be a balanced and open inquiry.

Well, Ken won’t apologise for something he didn’t say. I think all his haters and opponents are simply going to have to accept that and move on. We all know exactly why such a big fuss was made of Ken’s comments, and it failed to cause the damage to Labour that the Right had hoped for.

Meanwhile; Israel has appointed an extreme right-winger as Defence Minister, a vile man who has called for the beheading of Palestinians and for them to be forcibly expelled from their homeland. I don’t hear Umunna, Arkush and co talking about that.

@clod – Board of Deputies – you have deliberately removed the word Jewish from his job title. Quite an important word that Jewish. Whether you consider it a left or right wing organisation is irrelevant. What Ken is going to have to accept is that the Labour Party have kicked him out for his remarks, I see no way back for him ever.

As for the Israeli government’s appointment that’s a side effect of coalition politics, what is true is that very many in the left in the UK have totally confused being against Isreali politics with being anti-semitic. Thes inquiry is not a discussion of what is happening in Israel and neither is Shakri’s investigation (the third one and very likely it will try and be buried by Labour under cover of Chilcott being released)

Northward, I will have a crack at answering that. Livingstone was very much trying to infer that Zionism was aligned with Hitler and the Nazis. That is very offensive to Jewish people and it is offensive to me as well. He has done so by quoting one book fro one author as his justification and source and setting that against the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

what is true is that very many in the left in the UK have totally confused being against Isreali politics with being anti-semitic.

Just not true what has happened is that RW zionist realise they cannot morally nor legally defend what Israel does so they shout racist whenever anyone criticises Israel

Again imagine if a left winger described Jews as you describe islam those espousing questionable and racist views are not on the left they are in the mirror.

Your false flag operation ,on here, has failed no one has fallen for it

He intended to be as offensive as he could be in as public a way as possible

He was quite shit then as there are literally thousands of ways to do that more effectively than he chose such as actually being anti semitic…or possibly what you said is wrong.

“you have deliberately removed the word Jewish from his job title”

No I haven’t.

“what is true is that very many in the left in the UK have totally confused being against Isreali politics with being anti-semitic.”

No they haven’t.

“Livingstone was very much trying to infer that Zionism was aligned with Hitler and the Nazis.”

No he wasn’t, and you know this. So stop trying to claim it as fact!

“Thes inquiry is not a discussion of what is happening in Israel”

Well it **** should be, because innocent people are being forced from their homes, being falsely imprisoned, and being tortured and killed. Which is what angers many people, myself and Ken Livingstone included. That’s what Ken’s comments are all about. We’re fed up with Britain etc turning a blind eye to Israeli government and military oppression of Palestinian people, and as long as that continues, we’ll continue to oppose and be critical of Israeli government policy. Bleating on about non-existent ‘anti-Semitism’ the way you, Arkush and others are, is to deliberately distract people’s attention from what’s going on. Well, sorry, but we can see what’s going on, and your attempts to create a smokescreen aren’t working.

Junky Ken is trying to be smart, say something offensive but have a defensive. He is very deliberate in his actions.

Clod. It’s called the Board of Deputies of British Jews. Just maybe we may get a decent review from Shamri and get to see it in full but I doubt it. I’ve seen first hand examples of how campaigners on the left have been anti-semitic. Britain, the EU and the US do no such thing as turn a blind eye to Israel. What they do is understand and support Israel’s right to exist and its right to security. This isn’t a thread about Israel,mwe have had plenty of those. This is a thread about anti-semitism in the Labour Party and Ken Livingston is particular. What you are suggesting Clod is that investigating and exposing anti-semitism should be secondary to critising Isreal and by suggesting such you are attempting to brish over what is a very seriois and imo material issue

Just to be clear I don’t care where this anti-semitism exists, there is no left/right agenda here whatsoever. Remember it was John Mann’s reaction which really brought this to the public’s attention

“Clod. It’s called the Board of Deputies of British Jews.”

I know. I’ve already mentioned this on page one of this thread:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ken-livingstone-steps-in-to-calm-antisemitism-row-in-the-labour-party#post-7668380

So, please explain how I’ve ‘deliberately removed the word ‘Jewish’ from his job title’ (which is ‘director’, surely?).

“Britain, the EU and the US do no such thing as turn a blind eye to Israel. “

Wow.

“What they do is understand and support Israel’s right to exist and its right to security desire for expansionism and the massive market for weapons, which benefits western economies by billions of pounds, which in turn benefits politicians/shareholders in those industries.”

I believe that’s called ‘Fixing It For You’.

“This is a thread about anti-semitism in the Labour Party and Ken Livingston is particular”

We’ve already established Ken said nothing that is actually anti-Semitic. What you’re ignoring, is the root of criticism of Israel/Zionism, stems from that nation’s horrific and disgusting treatment of innocent people.

‘Defending their right to exist’ my arse. Tell me what this has to do with ‘defending their right to exist’:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-cuts-water-supplies-west-bank-ramadan-160614205022059.html

Ken is a dick who said something stupid. End of Everything else is about you are your loathsome agenda of hate.

I’ve seen first hand examples of how campaigners on the left have been anti-semitic.

No you have not you have erroneously interpreted criticism of Israel and her policies as this whilst expressing islamaphobic beliefs yourself that you would be livid about were they said about jews

No one on the left has been anywhere near as offensive about Jews as you have been about Islam Heal thyself of thy on hatred it I starting to consume you.

“What you are suggesting Clod is that investigating and exposing anti-semitism should be secondary to critising Isreal and by suggesting such you are attempting to brish over what is a very seriois and imo material issue”

That’s completely untrue, anyone on this forum can see that, you are just making shit up to support your own pathetically weak argument. That’s actually offensive.

jambalaya – Member

Northward, I will have a crack at answering that. Livingstone was very much trying to infer that Zionism was aligned with Hitler and the Nazis.

Thanks for at least making the attempt- but you must be aware of how weak this argument is? Saying “Hitler supported zionism” simply doesn’t infer that Zionism was aligned with Hitler- support from someone doesn’t align you with them. David Cameron supports Villa, that doesn’t mean Villa are aligned with the Conservative Party. OR West Ham for that matter.

Incidentally, Jonathan Arkush is on record on behalf of the Board of Deputies that the definition of anti-semitism should include anti-israel sentiment. That’s a big deal- and relevant both when considering what it really means when he says someone is an antisemite, and when considering his personal position and the position of the Board of Deputies in the wider debate.

Oh, on that note,

jambalaya – Member

@clod – Board of Deputies – you have deliberately removed the word Jewish from his job title. Quite an important word that Jewish.

You may just not be aware of this but they generally refer to themselves as the Board of Deputies- take a look at their website if you doubt it. (I used to deal with the Board of Deputies Charitable Foundation). Might be worth considering just how quickly you leapt to this conclusion…

Northwind one of the recommendations of the first Labour report into anti-semitism is that the Party adopt a definition of anti-semitism based on what the recipient feels. So its not up to Ken, its up to what Jewish people think as to whether there is an accusation to answer. Labour thought so thats why Ken’s suspended. This plus he has long term “form” here.

Anti Israel sentiment including BDS is absolutely anti-semitic as it lumps in all Israeli’s (80% being Jewish) together. Its like seeking to discriminate against Brits/UK because you don’t like one specific government.

Board of Deputies of British Jews – thats what is says on the website, each member being put forward by their local synagogue. Cross Party. Seems like the pefrect representatives on a Parliamentary Committee investigation anti-semirism

[video]http://youtu.be/KAxdor7KqHc[/video]

“Anti Israel sentiment including BDS is absolutely anti-semitic “

You seem incapable of answering questions put to you, regarding your absurd and offensive statements, yet come up with even more rubbish.

BoD, as I’ve already pointed out, is a right-wing organisation which supports Israeli expansionism and the continued oppression of the Palestinian people. I know many Jewish people, and most of them are deeply critical of the BoD, and angry that this organisation claims to represent all British Jews. It doesn’t. Why haven’t other Jewish groups been asked to attend? Don’t they have an equal voice?

You seem incapable of answering questions put to you, regarding your absurd and offensive statements, yet come up with even more rubbish.

I believe the answer to all ‘awkward’ questions is “you are being anti-Semitic”…..

So its not up to Ken, its up to what Jewish people think as to whether there is an accusation to answer.

Cool I know a muslim who thinks what you said about islam was nothing short of racism. its not up to you to decide if it was or it wasn’t you just have to accept it was and apologise

Will you ?

I feel certain you wont be racist and say only Jewish people can do this and you will accept all faiths can do this and therefore now you are a racist…its a compelling argument isn’t it

Anti Israel sentiment including BDS is absolutely anti-semitic as it lumps in all Israeli’s (80% being Jewish) together.

Utter nonsense its not anti semitic and it says nothing about the make up of Israel or its people – you overestimated the Jewish % btw it 75%
China repressesses it people and does not allow them freedom I deplore the way they treat their citizens
Did i just “insult” all chinese and be racist?
To claim I did is idiotic and you really should be able to work out that deeply complex question

Its like seeking to discriminate against Brits/UK because you don’t like one specific government

WTF are you on about with discrimination ? Its about expressing views about countries actions. A person can criticise say the foreign policy of this country or our actions without
1) discriminating
2) being a racist

YOu have to be trolling with this it is an argument that makes no sense

you criticised israel,so you criticised all jews, so you are racist because one Jew said so.
Its BS

jambalaya – Member

Anti Israel sentiment including BDS is absolutely anti-semitic

And there we have it- a very overdue admission from you of why you see anti-semitism everywhere.

Especially ironic considering that up the page you were accusing “The Left” of confusing the two, now you say they’re the same thing.

Its about expressing views about countries actions. A person can criticise say the foreign policy of this country or our actions without
1) discriminating
2) being a racist

Just yesterday you seemed to be saying pretty much the opposite about Labour party members who expressed concern over immigration policies

The Board of Deputies – use the definition of anti-semitism which has been asopted by the European Union

There is quite a lot here in the evidence from Arkrush and from Angus Robertson I watched the first 1.5hrs

Robertson and the SNP believes Livingstone’s remarks who wholy unacceptable and had he been a member of the SNP he would have been expelled. (Robertson appears after around an hour)

From Arkrush

With regard to Livingstone’s remarks around 11:40 @Northwind althugh there are numerous QA throughout

There is also extensive comment on how with Corbyn being leader there has been a draw for those with anti-semtic views to either join the party or to speak up publically when previoisly they would have kept quiet. This is due to Corbyn’s support and leadership of Stop-the-War for example and him inviting Hamas and Hezbollah to Westminster and describing them as friends, something the Board have repeatedly asked him to step away from and that he has refused to do so
The board also hold reservations about Chakrabatis decison to join the Labour Party and her clear objective to work in the interests of the Labour Party (creating a question of impartiaility)

All of these are issues I have raised previously on STW

Parliamentary Commitee – session 2pm – 4:45pm

It sort of travels from making yourself look really desperate and silly to vaguely insulting to everyone that you think might believe any of this stuff jamba. Anyway, I thought you were too depressed to talk about your failure to expose endemic anti-semitism anymore. What happened?

the definition of anti-semitism which has been adopted by the European Union

Google this phrase
Does not exist nor did it ever include criticism of Israel

In 2005, the EUMC[ European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia] published a working definition of antisemitism, whose stated purpose was to “provide a guide for identifying incidents, collecting data and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism.” In November 2013 the definition was removed from the organisation’s website in ‘a clear-out of non-official documents’. A spokesperson stated that the document had never been viewed as a valid definition and that “We are not aware of any official definition”.[19][20]

The working definition stated: “Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_Rights_Agency#Report:_Working_Definition_of_Antisemitism
this thread is not a debate its just a place for you to air your prejudice.

Northwind just so its absolutely clear the European Union thinks BDS is anti-semitic, it also has in its definition of anti-semitism the broad critism of Israel – ie without explixitly differentialing specific government polcies from the state as a whole.

We see anti-semitism being increasingly prevelent not least in the use of the word Zionist as an attempt to conceal, eg zionist media, zionists control the government etc. To be clear a Zionist simply means believing the right of Jews to have their own country.

@clod I interpreted your post as deliberately excluding the world Jew or Jewish for a reason. If that wasn’t the case then I retract that. I thought I had answered your questions but if not feel free to repeat it again. What I wouod ask from you is you really need to stop seeing this issue as an attack on the left by the right, thats being in denial.

also has in its definition of anti-semitism the broad critism of Israel

It has no definition and it never included criticism of Israel – its quoted above for you to ignore and plough your own indefatigable stubborn furrow.

Very interesting thread.

Personally, I’m uncomfortable with some of the attacks on Israel, both on the forum and elsewhere, which can sometimes come across as an attack on the people of Israel, rather than an attack on the current government and those who support it.

Just occasionally mind, but it is there, as it is in many other threads concerning other countries.
We often don’t seem to be able to distinguish between a country, it’s government and it’s people.

However.
We have the right to criticise the Israeli government, or to discuss Zionism without being called anti Semitic.

Expressing revulsion at the actions of a government does not imply prejudice against the faith of the majority of it’s citizens.

Jambs, I’ve met many of the posters on this thread.
If any of them are anti Semites I’ll eat my Surly.

jambalaya – Member

Northwind just so its absolutely clear the European Union thinks BDS is anti-semitic, it also has in its definition of anti-semitism the broad critism of Israel

You brought up BDS seemingly at random, I’ve made no reference to it so why you point to it as if it supports your argument, I have no idea. Though since you mention it, I can find nothing to support your claim that the EU considers BDS to be anti-semitic. Anyway, it’s a random tangent.

For the rest, no, that’s just an outright lie. The EU’s working definition of criticism can be found here: http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/ and inevitably does not say what you pretend it does. In fact it takes great pains to make that clear.

Criticism of Israel can be founded in anti-semitism and can contain or conceal anti-semitic sentiment- but the attempt to label all criticism of Israel as antisemitic is an attack on legitimate discussion and free speech. It is cowardly, cynical, anti-democratic, and an open admission that you choose not to make a counter argument using facts or debate.

It’s also offensive to me personally- as a critic of Israel you have now declared me an anti-semite, and to make it simple, **** you.

It is, ironically, also damaging to the campaign against genuine antisemitism, as is the frequent connection with anti-islamic racism. You can’t fight injustice with injustice- many fools have tried, it only breeds more.

“Robertson and the SNP believes Livingstone’s remarks who wholy unacceptable and had he been a member of the SNP he would have been expelled. “

Ooh, then I dare say he’ll find this a bit embarrassing:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/143628/scottish-mp-paul-monaghan-apologises-over-antisemitic-tweet

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-politician-apologises-unreservedly-for-anti-semitic-tweet-a6732756.html

Both are still members of the SNP.

But notice how no-one mentions this. Interesting. It’s almost as though they aren’t actually all that bothered about anti-Semitism, and just want to attack Corbyn and the Left…

“It’s also offensive to me personally- as a critic of Israel you have now declared me an anti-semite, and to make it simple, **** you.”

You see, jamba; you can’t just invent your own rules to suit your own argument. It doesn’t work like that. You’ve attempted to present yourself as some sort of ‘impartial’ commentator without an agenda, but you’re so piss poor at actually doing this, that you’ve actually only made yourself look like a reactionary rabid anti-left right-winger. Your claims of having no agenda are absolutely laughable. You’ve singularly failed to sufficiently answer a single question put to you. You can’t even do your homework properly on the info you present to support your own views. You are rapidly becoming a laughing stock. Then, you insult people by making offensive claims that they are anti-Semitic and/or condone anti Semitism.

Time for you to withdraw from this thread, I feel. Your continued input can serve no purpose unless you are prepared to accept that you don’t have the last word on things, and that your views are simply opinion, not fact. And that others might actually have a more objective, balanced view than you.

I began here feeling that the treatment you get from others was unfair. I now take that back. I hope you can go away and become better educated on this issue, and less narrow-minded. I really do.

Criticism of Israel multiculturalism can be founded in anti-semitism racism and can contain or conceal anti-semitic racist sentiment- but the attempt to label all criticism of Israel multiculturalism as antisemitic racism is an attack on legitimate discussion and free speech. It is cowardly, cynical, anti-democratic, and an open admission that you choose not to make a counter argument using facts or debate.

For balance, you could also replace with immigration, Islam, the EU or ‘black youth’ – yet look what happens whenever anyone tries to discuss any of those issues.