You cannot simply twist, distort and ignore facts to support your argument, it really does you no favours.

He really doesn’t care, he’s been masturbating furiously over his keyboard for the last 4 days straight at the thought of Corbyn being in trouble…..

it’s fine to expose another’s argument as weak, facile or incorrect, but resorting to ad hominem attacks to make another look inferior, is the mark of insecurity.

Its the result of long periods of time having to deal with someone who does this

You cannot simply twist, distort and ignore facts to support your argument, it really does you no favours.

Zionism is a movement celebrated by people right across the political spectrum, all over the world, and requires no endorsement or otherwise of the particular policies of any Israeli government at any time.

Utter bollocks or its true and I am a zionist…tough to tell.

“But to those people who have nevertheless sought to redefine Zionism, who vilify and delegitimise it, be under no illusions – you are deeply insulting not only the Jewish community but countless others who instinctively reject the politics of distortion and demonisation.”

Oh the irony he wants to lecture me on the politics of distortion and demonisation.Its not my fault that every time i criticize israel folk treat it as me criticising jews of which this thread has numerous examples.Its just more of the same false argument that to attack zionism – which has been redefined in much the same way anti semitism has been redefined , neither mean what they once did- is attacking jews ;its not its attacking Israel and zionist cannot defend how israel behaves hence they shout racist.

Saudi a nation state and major Western ally benefitting from direct in-country US military assitance

Yep – these are the guys!!

In evidence to the committee, both Harneis and Save the Children’s Grant Pritchard described the bombing they had witnessed on the ground as “indiscriminate”, corroborating careful investigations by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and UN experts, which all described the same pattern.

In her evidence, Josephine Hutton of Oxfam remarked that attacks on hospitals, schools and aid agency warehouses are so frequent that it is now “pretty hard” to see them as accidental. The committee itself acknowledged that the “evidence we have received, from humanitarian actors operating on the ground in Yemen and respected human rights organisations including UN commissioned evidence, unanimously suggested that humanitarian law is being breached”.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/05/saudi-arabia-bombs-yemen-tories-human-rights

Its odd isnt it he spends ages warning us of the threat of islamaphobia ,being exported from saudi, and then he defends them on this thread

http://www.unitetheunion.org/uploaded/documents/(JN7434)%20A4%20Tory%20Racism%20Brochure%20SIN11-26629.pdf

Tories be being racist as well

Cannot wait to hear jamby give them both barrels for their racism it will be deafening wont it.
I mean he wont just ignore it and just attack labour will he

As stated all parties, and indeed STW, has a tiny tiny minority of folk who are racists. It is not the preserve of one party.

Tories be being racist as well

Yeah, but its not like the tories have ever pretended to be nice people is it?

and we haven’t had 20 odd years of the ‘loony right’ running to the press and then social media jumping up and down pointing fingers and shouting words ending in ist and ism and demanding action be taken against anyone they don’t like for some total non event and none story, have we?

Labour party – hoist on their own petard!

What percentage of anti semitism is contained in these words?

“It’s scary to see horrifying developments that took place in Europe begin to unfold here, because if there is one thing that is scary in remembering the Holocaust, it is noticing horrific processes which developed in Europe – particularly in Germany – 70, 80, and 90 years ago, and finding remnants of that here among us in the year 2016.”

“The Holocaust, in my view, must lead us to deep soul-searching about the nature of man. It must bring us to conduct some soul-searching as to the responsibility of leadership and the quality of our society. It must lead us to fundamentally rethink how we, here and now, behave towards the other.”

“There is nothing easier and simpler than in changing the foreigner,”

This passage in particular is interesting, given the recent justified outrage bollocks

“There is nothing easier and simpler than fear-mongering and threatening. There is nothing easier and simpler than in behaving like beasts, becoming morally corrupt, and to act sanctimoniously.”

“On Holocaust Remembrance Day, it is worthwhile to ponder our capacity to uproot the first signs of intolerance, violence, and self-destruction that arise on the path to moral degradation”

Yeah, but its not like the tories have ever pretended to be nice people is it?

So you’re ok with your party being racist as long as they’ve never pretended to be nice people? Sounds about what I’d expect from the likes of you to be honest.

@clodhopper I have in 4 years here never made any personal remarks but in you’re case I’m going to make an exception and say you’d don’t have the faintest idea what you are talking about. In my 35 year career I have travelled extensively and soent a huge amount of time throughout the Middle East and in Malaysia and Indonesia. I have also worked with and for a broad variety of Jewish people of quite baried political leanings. My views are based on that experience.

What I need to do is my business and if I wanted your opinion on it I would have asked. I didn’t ask so you can be assured I don’t give a t0ss about your 2 pence.

Israel stands on the threshold of a materially stronger relationship with the US, Obama has never been “a fan” as he’s found the Israelis don’t care for his desire to “leave a legacy” as seen by his idiotic deal with Iran. If Trump wins he’ll effectively reverse it btw. Jews are leaving Europe in their 10’000s as they don’t feel safe, most are going to Israel where despite the Hamas attacks they know they will be protected. They’ll pay their taxes there and strengthen the Jewish homeland with their talent and expertise,

This thread was about anti-semitism in the Labour Party, something I have seen first hand on many occasions and something I have commented about on here months if not years before the story “broke”. Finally the press have taken note and moved to publish what many of us have known to be the case for many years and a situation which the election of Corbyn and his terrorist apologist tendances have only inflamed, he’s an (unintentional) recruiting sergeant for anti-semites and extremists.

I see the usual suspects are doing all they can to avoid discussing the real issue of anti-semtism in the Labour Party including the list of senior elected officials who have been suspended. As the Chief Rabi said himself, thise trying to distract attention from the real and severe issue are part of the problem

😯

I cannot discuss it as one post tells me they have all joined recently because corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and then the next post says that they are all senior and presumably been there for years

No jamby folk are reluctant to indulge in your anti labour bigotry because an actual rational debate is impossible and your contradict yourself, fact dont matter and you just keep saying things – Any evidence to support the thousand fleeing due to fear? I am getting sick of asking you for a csource on this point,

All partied have a very small number of members who are racist neither party is racist in any real degree and anyone who says otherwise is putting their own politics before the facts which is pretty tragic

I despise the tories I think they serve the rich and the powerful but I am not as daft as try and characterise them as racists as i am not irrational

you can type toss btw where as trying to avoid the wear filter is an actual offence

The real problem is that Zionists have decided that anyone who criticise israel is a racist they are now trying to suggest that anyone who does not agree with them is a racist. Its a pathetically weak argument.

There is no anti semitism anywhere on this thread just he usual suspects who cannot defend israel engaging in name calling and shouting racist as even they know they cannot defend israel on any moral or legal basis.

EDIT: too late to edit, @clodhopper but you should read some of the Israel related threads including those around the time of the 2014 Gaza war, this one is positively polite by all parties in comparison

Junky you’ll have to be a bit more specific

Know you love the IDF Jambolocks:

IDF military chief backtracks after appearing to compare Israel to Nazi Germany

‘It’s scary to see horrifying developments that took place in Europe begin to unfold here’, he said

What percentage of anti semitism is contained in these words?

“It’s scary to see horrifying developments that took place in Europe begin to unfold here, because if there is one thing that is scary in remembering the Holocaust, it is noticing horrific processes which developed in Europe – particularly in Germany – 70, 80, and 90 years ago, and finding remnants of that here among us in the year 2016.”

“The Holocaust, in my view, must lead us to deep soul-searching about the nature of man. It must bring us to conduct some soul-searching as to the responsibility of leadership and the quality of our society. It must lead us to fundamentally rethink how we, here and now, behave towards the other.”

“There is nothing easier and simpler than in changing the foreigner,”

This passage in particular is interesting, given the recent justified outrage bollocks

“There is nothing easier and simpler than fear-mongering and threatening. There is nothing easier and simpler than in behaving like beasts, becoming morally corrupt, and to act sanctimoniously.”

“On Holocaust Remembrance Day, it is worthwhile to ponder our capacity to uproot the first signs of intolerance, violence, and self-destruction that arise on the path to moral degradation”[/quote]

Here’s some pictures of the IDF to cheer you up:

ultimately, there are many good people on both sides, whose lives are being degraded by the aggressors in the conflict… however, things get trickier when the aggressors in the conflict include the government themselves and a program of indoctrination:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1wEszQYEzg[/video]

about what?

EDIT: too late to edit, @clodhopper but you should read some of the Israel related threads including those around the time of the 2014 Gaza war, this one is positively polite by all parties in comparison

Yeah, well if you insist on attempting to justify an overwhelming miitary force resorting to napalming children, you can’t expext to maintain much in the way of courtesy or respect.

Be fair he does not defend Israel he blames the Palestinians for “using civilians areas”

Be fair he does not defend Israel he blames the Palestinians for “using civilians areas”

I think Assad uses a similar logic.

Seems like there are anti-semites high up in the IDF too. Hiding in plain sight obviously.

Seems like there are anti-semites high up in the IDF too. Hiding in plain sight obviously.

I blame the Labour party.

Sorry, I felt I had to say that before jamba does.

I think he did that as part of the husting to join Labour after having been inspired by the terrorist sympathiser Corbyn the old and tires

Anyway I suspect he will be busy today pillorying the tories for rampant Islamophobia as he is nothing but even handed in his approach to either religion or partyie so today he will be dealing with the fallout from the Tories ” dig Whistle” campaign as honestly as he was with labour and anti semitism……just watch this space

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/06/zac-goldsmith-attacked-by-senior-tory-over-tactics-in-london-mayor-election
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/zac-goldsmith-attacked-by-senior-tory-over-outrageous-london-mayoral-campaign-a7016001.html
oh and he seems to like Owen jones and he certainly wont stoop to cherry picking his appeals to authority and will be appalled by this 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/03/tories-party-islamophobic-london-mayoral-campaign-sadiq-khan

Both parties have fringe racist nutters only those so devoted to their own political bias they dont need nor respect facts argue otherwise.

What I see is a group of people who have invaded another’s country bleating that they are being hard done by when anyone voices a complaint against their aggression.

Invaded? Palestine stopped belonging to Muslim Palestinians after they waged a terror campaign against Palestinian Jews in the early 20th century – followed by people like Amin al-Husseini getting in bed with the Nazis, encouraging the Holocaust and blocking Jewish refugees to the middle east.

Is it any wonder that Palestinian Jews invited their mates over to help them, to carve themselves out a piece of land where they felt safe?

You see, that’s why you’re anti-Semitic. You buy the line that Israel was formed by an invasion hook line and sinker, it was a civil war with international backers on both sides and the Muslim side lost – the downtrodden ethnic minority won.

You see, that’s why you’re anti-Semitic. You buy the line that Israel was formed by an invasion hook line and sinker

Since when is historical ignorance the same as racism?

Being that ignorant is as bad as being racist.

Since when is historical ignorance the same as racism?

“anti-Semitic” hasn’t been used in it’s literal meaning for decades, it’s just a proxy for ‘you’re not a friend of Israel’.

Being an ignorant cockwomble

Don’t be so hard on yourself bwaarp.

Being that ignorant is as bad as being racist.

In some ways, yes.

But that point of view makes you anti-Israel, doesn’t it, rather than anti-semitic? Would a person with such a view hate a British Jew?

Being that ignorant is as bad as being racist.

Really, well that’s a an interesting perspective…

When the Racist slur isn’t working, you just try something else and then say ‘it’s as bad as’?

I’d argue that saying that the Israelis “invaded” is inherently prejudiced, along the same lines as saying that gay people have something wrong with them.

You don’t excuse that by saying “oh he’s scientifically ignorant”. You massive idiot.

I’d argue that saying that the Israelis “invaded” is inherently prejudiced

Israelis =/= Jews, no?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

Using the term “invaded” shows a prejudice towards those Jews who fought for their own safety in the country they were born in.

So yup, sticking with the racist label.

Tom_W1987 – Member
…You see, that’s why you’re anti-Semitic…

I’m anti the Israeli govt, not Israelis. To be antiSemitic, I would also have to be anti-Palestinian who are also of the Semitic group.

And I’m pretty sure none of the Palestinians who are being persecuted had anything to do with what happened 100 years ago.

If the Israeli govt wants to claim the moral high ground then first they must act morally.

Nahhhh, they just continue using exactly the same language that people like Amin Al-Husseni did. But that’s alright.

You’re just trying to obfuscate the fact that you’re prejudiced against Palestinian Jews now.

Nah I’m prejudiced against any government and army that have a policy of targeting civilians ,collective punishment and sending death squads to murder “friendly” policemen as retaliation. Try reading what IDF troops think of their orders on “breaking the silence”

So now you’re rationalizing your prejudice, by using valid points about completely different issues.

You can’t deny that Israel had to forcibly eject several thousand Arabs to create their state as it less now

There was a really good bbc4 Storyville a while back about the 6 day war using testimony from Israeli soldiers, some felt they were on the side of right but some began to realise that as they arrested (and executed) the young men and forced the women, children and old people at gunpoint to leave their homes forever that creating the state of Israel as it is now would require them to commit their own holocaust (the soldiers words not mine)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06s0g85

http://www.veoh.com/m/watch.php?v=v98349470dMBgk5Mh

No it I’m not it is not even a prejudice it is a rational judjment based on evidence I was very pro Israel not withstanding its foundation on terrorism and murdering British troops until their government went completely rogue and abandoned all respect for international law and the Geneva convention.
I work with and am friends with followers of all three abrahamic faiths and disrespect their beliefs equally.

Nah I’m prejudiced against any government and army that have a policy of targeting civilians ,collective punishment and sending death squads to murder “friendly” policemen as retaliation.

So, you’re opposed to the Palestinian (Hamas) government of the Gaza strip then?

(Edited to be more specific)

Yes I am but I recognise that right now they are the only thing holding the place together . If they were removed it would either self destruct and or the Israeli government would roll over the place and either displace on effectively eliminate the population. What needs to happen is a deescalation and a way of transitioning Hamas out. That won’t happen while Hamas can legitimately claim to be the only thing that stands between the Palestinians and either ethnic cleansing or becoming the Israeli’s Helots.