Thinking about a kayak for local canal and maybe the odd lake or slow river. Not sea.

I don’t want one of those sit on top jobbies. Any recommendations for something not too huge to carry from the car roof but not tiny. Possibly with a cubby hole type thing for stashing food etc.

One I looked at was http://www.venturekayaks.com/kayaks.php?kayak=Flex%2011

Any suggestions welcome. Thanks.

Marsport Laance
Very stable racer/tourer. Can be made nice and light dependant upon construction. Hatch can be fitted to rear deck. Specify overstern rudder if you are thinking about decending rivers with shallow bits!

Thanks. That one is a bit long at 5m and a bit too expensive. Just need something for gentle pootles really. Keeping my eye on evilbay as they seem like the kind of thing people buy on a whim (like me) and then never use again lol.

Anyone else partake in a bit of kayaking?

In after a Canadian

Same reason as you….

Robson Waikiki
Pyranha Master

You can’t go too far wrong with anything from the top 1/3rd of this page.

Though I’m with Duncan above in that there is not much finer than a solo canadian on water such as that. A cheapish one.

For pootling a Canadian would be spot on, less likes to get wet too, as with a kayak you always get dribbled on by your paddles, so you’ll have to get changed to go anywhere. You can potter about in an open canoe in normal clothes and shoes.

I used to race marathon and sprint kayaks, a day out on the canals was lovely, even where I am not far from Birmingham. Quite tempted to get a Canadian to take the kids in when finances allow.

Canoes are great, I am a fan. But they are a balance – heavier, larger to handle off water, more susceptible to wind colder to paddle. But you can carry lots, more variety of seating, take a friend etc.

Canoes – you wont go much wrong with a Hou 13, Apache or the new Silverbirch 16.
Apache are amazing value, and will be lighter than the plastic offerings. Coleman / Pelican will also be cheap, and the one below was wrapped round a rock in the morning (in half!) and we kicked it straight, wedged in some wood for a missing spar and paddled on…
[url=https://flic.kr/p/yE21NN]Royal Dee Canoe[/url] by Matt Robinson, on Flickr
Before you know it, you will be heading off on a trip…
[url=https://flic.kr/p/yE4fJE]Royal Dee Canoe[/url] by Matt Robinson, on Flickr

[url=https://flic.kr/p/yXuG7x]Royal Dee Canoe[/url] by Matt Robinson, on Flickr

Kayaks – I am not much up on touring boats, but anything from a major manufacturer should be OK. They will be smaller and lighter, although you can only ever paddle with you in it. They are great on flatwater, but can also be used on bigger water areas and moving water.

Don’t discount sit on tops as well – a nice balance of simplicity, stability, kayak size and efficiency. They are wetter to paddle.

Finally, inflatables can also work for some folk, although they are wet and less efficient. Storage is easier.
Inflatables can be fun…
[url=https://flic.kr/p/yXrEnX]Royal Dee Canoe[/url] by Matt Robinson, on Flickr

Gumtree can be a great source of old, cheap boats – but be wary of nicked things…Hull numbers are rarely displayed or checked. 😕

papamountain – Member
…I don’t want one of those sit on top jobbies…

Why not? They are not all plastic bathtubs and much safer IMO unless you are a skilled roller. The sit on top, or surf ski can be equally fast and light as a kayak. Try Googling surfski.

This is my old race surf ski, 20 foot long and 30lbs, and it’s still going strong after 40 years.

Personally I think kayaks are the penny farthing of paddle boats and surf skis the modern bike.

When I’m knackered I’d take a surf ski over a kayak any day in rough water (that’s when it’s hard to self-rescue in a kayak).

I’m looking to dabble as well. I like the idea of being able to carry a lot of stuff – load up with camping gear, food, a few beers and head off up the coast, stopping on beaches as you fancy it. I did a couple of hours pootling around the coast with a local guide, on a sit-on-top and enjoyed it. Very easy.

I’m inclined towards sit-on-tops, mainly for the safety thing: I assumed with a proper kayak you need to learn how to get out of it quickly if you roll. I may be wrong though. Not that I’m likely to roll it with what I plan to do. Though we did try a bit of surf-kayaking and it was surprisingly fun (as a surfer).

Ideally I’d get a longer touring boat for longer solo trips and a smaller more “sporty” (if that’s the right term) boat for messing in the surf and shorter trips, and for the gf when she wants to come along. This seems a more flexible solution than a tandem (though a tandem would probably work as a touring boat too).

Our posts crossed epicyclo, but I think you’ve confirmed my view.

I’m inclined towards sit-on-tops, mainly for the safety thing: I assumed with a proper kayak you need to learn how to get out of it quickly if you roll. I may be wrong though. Not that I’m likely to roll it with what I plan to do. Though we did try a bit of surf-kayaking and it was surprisingly fun (as a surfer).

You would fall out. It takes effort to stay in, and modern kayak cockpits are massive.

What you can do on a sitontop is get back onto it again from the water – that is the bigger advantage.

matt_outandabout – Member
You would fall out. It takes effort to stay in, and modern kayak cockpits are massive…

I never noticed any greater propensity to fall out of my surfski than the kayak I used to have (Nordkapp). Re-entry was much much quicker on the surfski, and once you’re in you’re ready to paddle full steam – no refitting skirts, or bailing, or sluggish boat while the self-bailers slowly do their job. If you fit knee straps you can brace yourself to the extent you can do a full roll if you want.

I may be placing too much emphasis on re-entry but it was critical in the waters I was paddling in. We had box jellyfish, and contact with one of them is painfully fatal if you are not close to medical facilities. The other thing is that coming off the ski, I rarely got submerged – the tendency is to grab the side as it goes and often it’s only your legs that end up off the boat.

A surfski is wetter, and you should dress for being in the water, which means immersion is no big deal. If you get a bit hot, then splash water on yourself. Every year experienced kayakers die out of their boats in cold water because they are dressed for the boat not immersion.

Edit: I should point out that my experience is all 15 years out of date now. However I have paddled long distances offshore – we used to paddle out towards the Barrier Reef to play in the waves when a cyclone was coming (not immediate!).

I have been looking at sea kayaks since going out on a friend’s 3 person boat. I’ve been thinking a 1 or 2 person craft but thought they were a bit wide.
I had never seen surf ski before. That looks fantastic. epicyclo, can you recommend something for long distance/ training?

I’m not strapped on to my surfboard and I usually (OK sometimes) manage not to fall “out”.

I have a grand idea of taking a ride up river and a paddle back down (ie have a boat that deflates and packs into a big bag and that still takes a bike if carefully stored), but no idea where to start on looking for the kit!

Anyone done anything like that?

roper – Member
I have been looking at sea kayaks since going out on a friend’s 3 person boat. I’ve been thinking a 1 or 2 person craft but thought they were a bit wide.
I had never seen surf ski before. That looks fantastic. epicyclo, can you recommend something for long distance/ training?

I’m out of the loop now and not familiar with UK stuff. I always preferred a low set seat though.

I found skis were a bit like saddles, wide and comfortable looking wasn’t necessarily so. You really need to try one out first.

timP look up packrafts

I saw a guy with a plastic sit on thing that separated into two halves for easy transport at the weekend down in Exmouth. Possibly not the most high tech thing but might suit those who just want something easy to transport for gentle use.

I have a grand idea of taking a ride up river and a paddle back down (ie have a boat that deflates and packs into a big bag and that still takes a bike if carefully stored), but no idea where to start on looking for the kit!

Anyone done anything like that?

I have the same grand idea. Have looked into buying a packraft but spendy. It’s the only way to go really though. Some cheaper (relatively speaking) options available now. See: http://www.packrafting-store.de/Packrafts/Nortik-Trekraft-no-deck::598.html

OP – any ‘cross-over’ or touring kayak will be good.
If you only intend on doing lakes/canals, then a tourer will be suitable, but they are slightly longer than other kayaks.
Cross-overs are a mix between whitewater and touring – they are longer than WW boats, with a waterproof storage hatch, but the hull shape allows them to be used on whitewater, with little penalty on gentle waters – mine has been down Matlock bath loads of times now, it isnt much harder to get down the rapids than my WW boat, but, the WW boat, being shorter, and ’rounder’ manouveres better, albeit less stable at times.
Price wise, I’d be wary of anything below £200 2nd hand, and anything more than ~8 years old. Modern kayaks are a totally different thing to 10 years ago, so I’d definitely get something modern, though 2nd hand.
I’ve got a Pyranha Fusion, my GF has a Wavesport Ethos, they are both great cross-over boats. I paid £300ish 2nd hand for mine last year, she bought hers new at around £550.
I’ll be selling mine in a few months, probably asking £200 for it (this is not a sales pitch!).

Where are you based?
You really want to try some boats out first, what may look similar on land, behave totally different to each other on the water. MY Fusion has poor ‘initial’ stability, in that it wobbles quite a bit when leant over at low angles, but, on leaning more (secondary stability), it gets more stable. Her Ethos is probably a little better in both departments there, but I didnt get on with that when I tried it.
If you are near the Midlands, then Leamington Boat Centre have a lot of demo boats for trying out. There are multiple other dealers around the Country who keep demo boats in.

TNW – getting out isnt a problem, once you are upside down, you soon get out! I’ve never managed a roll yet – tried loads of times, but just cant get it, but it’ll come.

I have a grand idea of taking a ride up river and a paddle back down (ie have a boat that deflates and packs into a big bag and that still takes a bike if carefully stored), but no idea where to start on looking for the kit!

Anyone done anything like that?
It can also be done as tracking a canoe:

Great if you are on a longer trip, and have loads of gear. Can be done with a kayak as well.

But a packraft is probably best… 😉

So will a simple 2 man inflatable kayak not do if you only put in 1 seat?

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-782277-kayak/N-142316-kayak-type~inflatable

Still expensive though!

Also, don’t limit yourself to flat water, we intended to do local canals and rivers, we’re doing this next month:

So will a simple 2 man inflatable kayak not do if you only put in 1 seat?

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/C-782277-kayak/N-142316-kayak-type~inflatable

Still expensive though!

I think the main difference is in the material. Your normal inflatable is PVC, whereas packrafts are polyurethane. Much more durable.

They’re also much lighter (maybe better design, maybe because PU is more durable so can be made thinner, and maybe because they have one or two chambers and still keep their shape when inflated – not sure). Single person inflatable in your link: 11kg. Cheap-ish packraft in my link: <3kg. Ultra-light packraft from the same place: 690g 😮

I see. So 15-20kg of gear (with paddle, bags, lifejacket etc) will somewhat limit my cycling enjoyment going for the decathlon one, to the point of probably not enjoying that bit of the trip, but the packraft will be a remarkably expensive option in comparison!!

Pretty sure I know what the Ministry of Fun will have to say about it all…

Thanks for the reply epicyclo. I have found a club near by so will try them out.

This pair manage with bikes and blow up canoes:
http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?48951-River-Tay-Two-Days-in-May

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?48883-River-Clyde-Glasgow

I mostly paddle sea kayaks but also have a Dagger Alchemy. This is great for stuff like going to the lakes, and Scotland. It’s at home on the river on the canal and on quite interesting sea trips and even some rock hopping and surfing.

Have you thought about going on a kayak course this will handy training and allow you to try different types of kayaks and different type of paddling.

Have a look at something like Plas Y Brenin’s Introduction to Kayaking.

where you can experience different sort of paddling.

Well you’ve found the right button to press there 😉

My SOT is one of these:

Which is great on the sea where I need the stability* and ability to cope with rough conditions, but on flat water it’s cumbersome and heavy compared to the kayak I usually use instead. Which is the penny farthing? Well neither really, each is perfectly suited to the conditions it’s used in.

Of course it should also be mentioned that most people’s idea of a SOT isn’t a surfski.

Personally I’d not choose a SOT for anything other than use on the sea where surfskis are the F1 cars. For everywhere else, for my skill level, kayaks are better. Which isn’t to say that is the case for everybody – for most people a surfski is likely to be a good choice for use on flatwater if they’re after something which goes fast (though they’re not a beginner’s boat), though they do still tend to be heavier than kayaks if you’re lifting it around a lot.

If you’re seriously interested in a ski, roper, then assuming lack of experience/ability the new Epic V7 is getting rave reviews. Though as always with this topic, my advice to new paddlers is to get yourself down the local club where you can get some training as well as more direct advice on boat choice.

* it’s a relative thing – non-paddlers would probably find it horrendously tippy as it looks

I use a Pyranha Fusion which has a rear hatch and small deck pod as well as lines to stash stuff with. Pretty limited carrying capacity and I wouldn’t want to go anywhere for more than a couple of days but ok on canals, lochs, rivers with light white water (grade 2/3, unloaded). Done some puttering about off the beach not out into open water.

On canal you can use just about anything, on a river you’ll want something shorter for maneuverability which would rule out anything over about 12′ IMO.

Longer trips and not on open water, I’d go with a canoe for carrying more. Matt-oab seems to be the man for advice there.

This pair manage with bikes and blow up canoes

Well, packrafts. Important distinction. Alpackas to be precise, which are THE packraft, I understand.

Well that depends on what sort of river you’re talking about, and indeed what you’re intending on doing on one. The OP did say “slow rivers” – I do most of my paddling on a river in a 17′ boat, and I have also taken something very similar down the river in Matt’s pictures up there. Took a 20′ boat down this:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbZPM9udew[/video]

Can’t youtube at work but i’ll have a look at home.
OP did say slow rivers, but even on a slow river IMO you limit what you can do in a bigger boat due to it’s maneuverability (and I have a 17′ boat that I do odd river trips on). BUT bigger boats = more storage so a multi day trip is more practical.
It’s all pros and cons and I’d probably recommend the OP to do one of the 2 day intro to paddle sport courses that the likes of Glenmore Lodge run (other outdoor centers are available) giving him the chance to try different boats on different waters.

aracer – Member
…My SOT is one of these:

…Which is the penny farthing?…

* it’s a relative thing – non-paddlers would probably find it horrendously tippy as it looks

That’s a lovely looking boat.

I also had a short surfski (now called a wave ski) for inshore stuff, more like a slightly short longboard with a moulded in seat. Its primary stability was high but it could be leaned over to carve a turn in a steep wave, it was a bit of a rocket. The amount of times I got pummelled headfirst into the seabed is one of my happy memories. 🙂

The Penny Farthing comment wasn’t related to performance but to safety. Anyone who’s ridden a good Penny Farthing knows they are performance bikes, but when things go wrong it can be disastrous.

As far as stability is concerned, my ski was quite tippy as well – it used to be the personal race ski of Hadyn Kenny who was a well known name in surf lifesaving circles in Oz many years ago. However stability was instantly achieved at rest by dangling my legs overboard and it was more stable than most paddle boats then. If you embrace the wetness, surfskis are great.

I hate paddling in flat water, it feels lifeless. Like running in blancmange.

Just spent the last 20 minutes browsing the Epic site.

The V7 looks ideal for poking around West coast rocks. 🙂

Lol, so I saw the first reply and assumed there wern’t many of you on here!

Yep general pootling, no whitewater, 3-day excursions etc. Mainly the odd few hours on the canal I would imagine.

Still fancy my original choice and the Pyranha ones look very similar so those too. 3m seems about the right size. A spray deck should help with paddle dribble and generally getting wet right? A backrest sounds like something I would like too hence the not sit-on-top types.

Basingstoke canal around here has quite a few locks so would be hauling it out quite often.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions chaps. Will have a ponder and maybe see if there is a shop around here to look at a few.

I very much fancy a Venture Kayaks Easky 15 for what you are describing…

Mrs rkk01 hasn’t yet accepted that n=n+1 might apply, and I wouldn’t want to get rid of the Dagger Axiom

ETA – wouldn’t fancy hauling a loaded boat out at lots of locks 🙁

Plenty of us on here – I was just staying out of it until epi poked hard enough!

For the sort of thing you’re looking at I think you’re right to be looking at a conventional kayak rather than a SOT – not because there is anything inherently wrong with a SOT, but for what you’re wanting the kayaks available are better options. Some good suggestions I can’t add much to, though I’d re-emphasise my suggestion that you should look at getting some training – matt is right that you tend to fall out of the big cockpits in those sort of boats, but it’s still not a totally risk free thing, and you’ll also have a lot more fun if you know what you’re doing.

Not sure exactly where you are, but Basingstoke Canal Canoe Club were very friendly when I was down there 20 odd years ago!

And just to remind myself of the joys of paddling on the waters of Northern Australia