Somewhere between spending £1000 on a brand new, current geometry hardtail and spending £1 on a beautifully maintained, faultless 8 year old hardtail there’s a point at which the older bike would still be considered better VFM.

Wonder where that point is though?

As the fortunate owner of both examples, for me the line is drawn on what you might call traditional XC riding. On open moorland, fireroads, fields and doubletrack the 8 year bike is fine but the newer bike is better on more challenging terrain.

There is a simple truth here.

If you put a pro level rider on any of our bikes they will make the majority of us look silly irrespective of wheelsize, geometry, equipment, gearing or frankly any of it.

Buy what you like, can afford and enjoy. I like bikes and enjoy shiny new things so new is better for me but it still won’t mean I can pull a decent manual.

I would say they have massively – wider bars, bigger wheels (whichever size you go for), dropper posts and various changes in geometry make bikes much more capable. Or at least they feel more capable, which if it gives you the confidence to ride more stuff is the same thing.

If you put a pro level rider on any of our bikes they will make the majority of us look silly irrespective of wheelsize, geometry, equipment, gearing or frankly any of it.

But what happens when you put another pro on a modern bike to race the first pro?

Eh? Eh?

There is a simple truth here.

If you put a pro level rider on any of our bikes they will make the majority of us look silly irrespective of wheelsize, geometry, equipment, gearing or frankly any of it.

Not a very helpful observation though is it?

If you put yourself, with your own fitness and skill on two different bikes, they will perform differently. Whatever pros do has nothing to do with it.

At this point last year i was riding a cobbled together mongrel HT 26er and loving it. I sold a bunch of stuff (mostly guitars) and raised enough money to buy another bike.

I set a budget of 500 quid. after trying out a battered spesh epic and a few other things i got a mint 2010 santa cruz superlight (2007 frame, but built later) which after knocking the guy down a little I got for 500 on the nose.

I still don’t see them come up that cheap a year later. I’ve added a dropper, got rid of the rapid rise, put on the biggest tyres it’ll take (2.3s), and its awesome. Goes up well, and down is faster than my mates on HT 29ers (who magically think they’ll be faster on their new big wheel bikes ;)).

I love it. Its not perfect.

Next bike I want is almost the exact same. Slightly slacker, stubby stem, 2×10. and 650b, maybe a touch more travel. (I’ll make a post once i’m shopping…)

– I can see how being slacker will help.
– Wheels, maybe a bit. will go tubeless.
– 2×10. if I get the gearing set up maybe. I can run out of gears in the middle ring on some descents. So I hope that’ll help?
– i’m happy with 100mm.. but 120-130 is enough for most I reckon. I truely believe many people are overbiked.

But IMO, overall there’s bugger all wrong with 26 platform. the small things I listed add up to a general trend and not a huge leap.

Dropper and bigger tyres have been the biggest revelations and “Moar gears” seems like the innovation i’ll benefit from most.

(oh while i’m on my high horse, and e-bikes suck balls if you’re capable of riding a normal bike and being a lazy ****)

The Boardman (was I right?) is a bit of an outlier these days though. Shame they don’t do an 853 or carbon version, with a slightly longer front end.

Yes spot on! Really like mine.

What wheels did you upgrade to, if you don’t mind me asking?

But you’re not suggesting that all 29ers handle identically?

I was responding to a comment that 29ers were better. I can only say that my own experience is the opposite. This was a Scott Spark 29er compared to my Giant Anthem X 26er. The Scott was more stable on rocky boulders, but I prefer the Anthem for everything else.

Geometry changes simply change the focus of the bikes preferred terrain nothing more. 20 year old HT were fairly okay on the road (which was handy when you rode a few miles to the trail head), but they were far less capable on steep descents, new bikes are way more capable on the downs but pretty sluggish on the road.

Dropper posts can be retro fitted. Likewise different gearing.

Wider bars aren’t really a thing, bars have been getting wider for the last 25 years.

Yes spot on! Really like mine.

What wheels did you upgrade to, if you don’t mind me asking?

Race Face Turbine – got an unused set a guy had taken off a new bike with an XD driver for £170. About 1800g IIRC and nicely stiff.

Only other changes have been tyres and a 760mm flat bar and Reverb that I already had.

Gears working good on yours? I’ve had to do a LOT of faffing to get them working smooth.

Long story short compared to my 08 sx trail, lots of small changes, suspension, geometry, wheel size, bar length and stem length have made the bikes considerably more forgiving. They’re still bicycles though and thus still confrom to bicycle physics.

although, i’d present the specialized sx trail/enduro, as an example of how *little* has changed in the last 8/10/11 years.

2005:

i even had a go-go-gadget seatpost on mine.

Only other changes have been tyres and a 760mm flat bar and Reverb that I already had.

Gears working good on yours? I’ve had to do a LOT of faffing to get them working smooth.

I swapped the tyres and went tubeless. Swapped the bars for 740mm Easton carbon and fitted a slightly shorter stem.

I had real issues with the gears dropping into the smallest 10T sprocket, but once I figured out it was badly set up B-tension on the mech they have been spot on

The bigest change is how well the bike industry has leant to play the punters.

Bikes have changed and riding has changed. What was considered downhill a decade ago is classed as trail or XC now. The changes may be subtle, but generally they are there to make things better and make more challenging riding easier/more fun.

Saying that my FS is 4 years old, and is decently usable and I will carry on doing so until the urge to replace (which is niggling away) becomes unavoidable.

Bikes have changed and riding has changed. What was considered downhill a decade ago is classed as trail or XC now. The changes may be subtle, but generally they are there to make things better and make more challenging riding easier/more fun.

Saying that my FS is 4 years old, and is decently usable and I will carry on doing so until the urge to replace (which is niggling away) becomes unavoidable.

Bikes have changed and riding has changed. What was considered downhill a decade ago is classed as trail or XC now. The changes may be subtle, but generally they are there to make things better and make more challenging riding easier/more fun.

Saying that my FS is 4 years old, and is decently usable and I will carry on doing so until the urge to replace (which is niggling away) becomes unavoidable.

In answer to your question, nah, not really.. I’ve still got all the bikes I had from then(& before )to the newer ones I have now & ride them all fairly regularly.

One thing is different – Dropper seat posts are great, but a quick release clamp is cheaper & more reliable 🙂

I started riding modern full suspension mountain bikes in 2008. Hardtails are hardtails and haven’t really changed as much as full suspension over the years, the changes are largely in the full suspension category. That first full suspension bike in 2008 has not changed much compared to todays bikes in terms of technology, it’s mainly the geometry differences – wider bars, longer travel, slacker head angle etc. The differences in full suspension bikes from early 2000s and 1990s is absolutely huge compared to that bike in 2008. If you look at some of the weird and wonderful designs from that era (Whyte PRST for example) There must have been a watershed moment at this transitional period. Was it standardisation of components or did the sport suddenly take off? I don’t know what’s changed, I only came back to riding bikes in 2005 ish, there was a long gap since I cruised the streets on my Raleigh Chopper.

I started riding modern full suspension mountain bikes in 2008. Hardtails are hardtails and haven’t really changed as much as full suspension over the years, the changes are largely in the full suspension category.

I’d agree with that. my last FS was 2008, currently building another one and the difference is marked. lighter, better climber, better descender. definitely a better allrounder.
My XC bike is a 2009 29er hardtail. current XC bikes are 20 mm longer in ETT/ front centre. maybe a degree slacker. not a huge difference.

Stuff has changed….
Wheel sizes are the most obvious but aside from that some other stuff has around gears, bars and posts.
For XC my 100mm Full Sus with 1x transmission (not overly expensive as it’s a 10sp expanded) full remote lockouts that keep working, bolt through both ends so it’s not flexing all over the place, carbon, full tubeless with regular weight tyres not UST, 125mm dropper post etc. That bike wasn’t there in 2008.
Lighter and Stronger have got cheaper.
Shock tech has got better, we have nearly seen coil finished off!
The angles on the XC bike are great for uphill but also very capable down with the strength to survive a hammering.
It’s been years since I cooked brakes
1x is coming to the masses and despite the expensive tag it’s not really that far out from other top end groupsets with the price filtering down as we go.
These days it’s not that hard to spec a 30lb DH bike or a sub 22lb XC bike both of which will probably last a season better than their 2008 rivals.

For general riding I have a bike that can take a battering, uplifts and heaps of stuff that I can still ride all day up and down whatever I want and be happy. Components are lasting longer and reliability on most stuff is up.

Wider bars
Droppers
Tapered headtube

Are the main ones

1x is coming to the masses

Whether or not they want it…?

for an old school natural xc orientated rider like myself who likes riding uphill does it matter a toss?

Probably not. I’ve recently been following a little project, linking up the Welsh Trail Centres via ‘natural’ trails, riding a 10 year old hardtail (with bikepacking luggage attached in some cases). I didn’t meet anybody riding the ‘natural’ stuff but, so far, I’ve overtaken 29 people on WTC Red Routes, mostly on current gen FS bikes – and been overtaken by one. It’s mainly, not exclusively, the climbs where I’ve been passing the other riders.

The trip has killed any great urge I had to ‘upgrade’ to a new bike before the current one breaks.

Whether or not they want it…?

Not really, just prices are falling.

Well my bike that was the dog’s danglies in 2008 may as well have square wheels now, given that it’s 26er (with innertubes), 27.2 seatpost, hardtail, 3×10 with a wider range of gears than 1x, 1+1/8th straight steerer, a whopping 120mm fork, 740mm bars (that was an upgrade).
A bike that’s was aimed at fast flowy twisty techy singletrack, with a bit of air time, now probably classified as a fireroad bike, grassy double track bike, etc. where 29er would be better.
And I’ve ridden Morzine twice on that bike, shed loads of trips to Lakes, Cairngorms and the rest of the Alps.

Well my bike that was the dog’s danglies in 2008 may as well have square wheels now, given that it’s 26er, 27.2 seatpost, hardtail, 3×10 with a wider range of gears than 1x, 1+1/8th straight steerer, a whopping 120mm fork, 740mm bars (that was an upgrade).

But none of those things make that much difference do they, angles etc will do and fork/shock tech do too.
Edit I really didn’t expect the current nomad to be as different as it was compared to the old 26 ones but it was. It doesn’t make what you have crap just not as good as what is available now.

Also 8 years is a decent life! Wish I could get one to last that long

But none of those things make that much difference do they

nope.
most of the changes are fashion and marketing.
but then perhaps incrementally they add up to something.
might have to try the latest 650b version, although if I replaced it, I’d be seriously considering the 29er version anyway (that can also take another fashion… 650b+).

might have to try the latest 650b version, although if I replaced it, I’d be seriously considering the 29er version anyway (that can also take another fashion… 650b+).

My simple advice will be to go and ride some new bikes on a demo day (if your considering upgrading) forget 650 vs 29 just ride them and see how they feel.
As for the usual fashion and marketing quip…
I can finally use bars that suit my wider shoulders.
I much prefer 1x gearing despite living somewhere hilly
120mm forks could be perfect depending on the bike