Oh yeh, the £60k thing buys a lot of holidays… Yes it does. Ours was just over £30k which also buys a lot of holidays but looking at prices of vans which aren’t as nice or as low mileage as ours currently, oddly it looks like ours could be worth more than what we paid for it. So potentially its a lot of holidays for free!

Similar sized vans are available from other manufacturers at significantly less cost.

New Transit camper thing is £50k. And I doubt it’ll hold its value anywhere near as well.

I think the problem is that you hired a California. We have a converted T5 long wheel base high top and there in tons and tons of storage. 4 of us went to France for 2 weeks and we had free space in the cupboards. High tops are great as you can stuff all the beading, duvet, pillows, tent, blow up beds, etc, etc up the top and this frees up loads of space from the cupboards low-down. We then have all our clothes in the cupboard above the cab. You then have all the normal cupboards by the folding seat for the food, shoes, coats, camping gear etc.

for those who have hired… where have you hired from? Is there anywhere recommended nearer to London?

We bought a Bongo (not a VW admittedly) with a view to selling on return from a 4000mile roadtrip as they hold their value. Substantially cheaper than renting. As it happens we just never sold it.

We had a full on 6 berth Camper van, proper beast, stand up shower, Oven Fridge Freezer lounge area and in the wet with two kids it was too small!! So I think and smaller vans for more than two nights would be rough! We sold it Trafford our house and We wish we still had it!

For us Two kids massive Dog, we worked out that a Van plus quick up tents and Awning shelter was the way to go, tent up in less than ten min, also be awning the same still have a Kombi van for use on Hols so cart bikes, dog, kids about no worries this is good for long weekends away. We do have a full on tent for a week any but that a half hour up and down Job! Plus I’m not carting about all the camper extras

I do use it as my daily driver, and it’s great, but in the end it’s a van! I went SWB as well it was a good deal at times the Len would be helpful but either are easy enough to to park you’ll get you head around them the more you drive them. Yeah it’s noisier than a car, won’t accelerate as quick but that’s a given the seats in our are really comfortable, we did Southampton to Fort Bill in two stops and I felt better getting out than I would have in the previous cars I’ve owned.

I know it’s not exactly the same but a VW Sharon and a decent tent would do 90% of it and cost a darn sight less.

Alpin: can you send me some more info (email in profile i think – lemme know if not..)?

we are in the middle of considering all of this after 2wks in scotland and we loved it..

looking to buy a panel van and convert – if the swiss laws allow me – how did you get averything passed in germany? here the cost of a base van is almost tear inducing so i’d have to get it right!

My parents have just bought a T5 camper.

Like the OP I always imagined it must be brilliant, but……….

Mehh, it’s no higher quality in the van bit up front than our Fiesta, still just acres of plastic and bits rattle.

The back is functional, but as you say it’s a 2 person space at a push, there’s no way you could do 4 people without guaranteed sunshine or a gazebo/tent (which defeats the objective).

And there’s not enough storage for anything more than a walking holiday unless you take a trailer. TBH, with a trailer it makes 10x more sense, especialy if that trailer was about 7ft tall, had a door & windows, and a bed, and a cooker, and a fridge.

And how much!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could buy a 2 bed terrace in the North Yorkshire Moors for the same as a new-ish T5 camper.

@KingofBiscuits

Chocks, levellers, hook up, etc in the gaps within the folding chairs in the boot/tailgate! Makes it easier for the weedy to close too (unless of course you have a bike rack).

KingofBiscuits
It’s things like this: Although there’s still a requirement to remove the car seat and iso fix base once we arrive as part of setting up. that we hadn’t really factored on storing once we arrived.

I went to have a look at a Hobby 765HFE this morning. £60k, seems like a decent build and ticks every box. The massive downside, is that if we decide it’s not for us after 12 months or if we think we need a different layout then the loss will be about £20k in the first year. I just can’t afford that risk, and it’s not there with a Cali.

I really wish I’d posted this thread before we went away because I’d have bought an awning and emergency toilet to take, knowing that I’d need them both to make the van work for four people and young children. With it, I might have had a whole different experience. I think the disappointment came from many threads (not just STW) saying the van is fine for four people for a couple of nights away without an awning – I just completely disagree.

I’m going to have look at LWB conversions too, but after reading all the replies I’m back thinking maybe I could make a Beach (or SE/Ocean) work for me (with dark upholstery and dark carpets) if we give it more thought and pitch an awning. I still think it’s a disappointment in build, attention and material choices for the money, but when you take the retained value into account you could argue it’s a relatively cheap car/van for it’s purpose.

I’ve got a daft little 135i at the moment which I drive like a knacker, and I thought I’d hate pottering everywhere at 60mph, but the truth is I didn’t really enjoy getting back in the car today. I think I might be finally ready to grow up.

@Dragon
A car and a tent would work, but I like the idea of all of us being asleep in the van and everything else (bbq, hob, food, tables and chairs and so on) being outside the van in the awning. Plus, in an emergency of no suitable spots and very bad weather on arrival, we could all sleep in the van and live in it for 24 hours if we really, really had to.

The kids will only like it their mum hasn’t killed me in the middle of the night after listening to me behave like a 14 year old with every inconvenience… So another hire, probably a Beach, and we’ll buy an awning before hand…

Had my Cali 5 years now. For 2 of those its been our only vehicle.

It is our (Me and the wife’s) 4th camper van. The previous being a couple of type 2’s and a T4.

Decided to buy a Cali as we had babies on the way and wanted the secure rear seat and heater and fridge.

We hired one and did 1000 miles over a fortnight in campsites in England, bit of wild in Scotland and a festival.

Being already used to the space of a smaller camper van we found it great and bought one as a result. 3 years old, just out of warranty so its 8 years old now.

before spending this amount on the Cali we did have a good long hard look at ourselves. Is it what we want?

Going bigger would offer more comfort and convenience and be cheaper. But where would we put it? We have no offroad parking. The inlaws had a bigger ‘motorhome’ and found the size restrictive even in Cornwall.
Buying a ‘cheaper’ conversion we considered, however once we added all the requirements we had it was not much cheaper than a good second hand Cali. Also, conversions don’t come with blinds, deck chairs and outdoor table hidden around it.
Neither of us are afraid of a feral poo.

In short, we love ours and don’t regret getting one. Our kids love it and see it as home from home, Thomas was 4 weeks old on his first camping trip and Alice was 3 months old.

I can certainly see why people couldn’t justify the expense, it is a huge commitment, (it is our holidays period, when we plan a holiday, we drive and camp) for what is a, to most people, a van conversion. Except they’re not. They are built by VW as Cali’s from the ground up even fitting them with different suspension. I am always too embarrassed to tell people what I paid for it too.
However, its a keeper as far as we are concerned. No plans to upgrade or upsize or buy newer. Its part of the family in the same way as our well loved Type 2’s were, it just gets there more reliably and a lot quicker.

We’ve got a converted LWB T30 which suits us as 2 adults. I can;t imagine having 4 in it, but then we like a bit of space.
We’ve done quite a few trips down to Dorset and up to the Lakes and into Yorkshire – its great just being able to turn up at a small site, park up, plug in the power (hopefully), put the roof up, get the pillows out and put the front screens in – we’ve got this down to less than 10 minutes now…
In the last 15 months we’ve done 2 trips down to Ital – one to the Dolomites and the other to Tuscany. It cruises at 130kmh easily, although long drags are a bit of a struggle, and it was absolutely fine up in the Alps and Dolomites going over passes.
Our main thing now is to get a wind-out Fiamma side awning which will make life better for inclement weather as we’ll be able to keep the NS sliding door open.
In the end its horses for courses, as a weekender vehicle it suits us, and although a sub7.5t AC or OC van would be nice we just don’t have anywhere to keep it and we’d lose some of the day-to-day practicality of the T5.

Based on you can hire a 6-berth motorhome for a week for less than £1k, and I’m pretty sure out-of-season you’ll be able to get them cheaper – I’d be hiring one rather than pay £60k for one that is too small and where you also need a tent.

Mehh, it’s no higher quality in the van bit up front than our Fiesta, still just acres of plastic and bits rattle.

Yes – its a van. Staggering I know. If bits rattle then something is wrong though.

The back is functional, but as you say it’s a 2 person space at a push, there’s no way you could do 4 people without guaranteed sunshine or a gazebo/tent (which defeats the objective).

2 adults, a 3 year old and a 6 year old sleep in ours quite comfortably. Had all four of us downstairs last year when the weather was so bad we couldn’t put the roof up.

And there’s not enough storage for anything more than a walking holiday unless you take a trailer. TBH, with a trailer it makes 10x more sense, especialy if that trailer was about 7ft tall, had a door & windows, and a bed, and a cooker, and a fridge.

I’m not sure you get it. People have choices of caravans or camper vans. You don’t think people buy a T5 camper expecting the space offered by a caravan do you?

And how much!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could buy a 2 bed terrace in the North Yorkshire Moors for the same as a new-ish T5 camper.

Interested – where?

Like a lot of things though, as long as you base your assumptions on a cursory glance or jumping on the “I hate VWs” bandwagon then your assumptions are entirely justified.

Fascinating thread yet again as I have thought about getting a t5 but some v good posts about living with them. I would put a t5 in the holiday home, boat, motorbike bracket…they all look really nice to own but when you actually get one and live with them the cracks start appearing.

I know a few people with t5s and the converted lwb t5 seems the way to go, just put in what you want.

It’s hard to argue with that br, but as the day has gone on I’m back to thinking I want to replace the car with a van, so I’m ruling out a motor home. I also want to use it most weekends, so occasional hire wouldn’t work for us (I don’t think this is what you were suggesting.

A 150 DSG Beach with the bits I’d want it is coming out at £48k, and all it’s missing is a hob, fridge and some storage.

The only other downside I can see is the exhaust for the diesel heater seems to vent into the awning space. That seems mental if true, can the exhaust be re-routed without causing further issue?

Also, does anybody know if the reclining three seat rear bench (no cost option) still turn into a bed, or is that an extra row of seats or bed deletion? The salesman wasn’t sure…

One issue I have with getting something like a T5 in order to double up as a daily vehicle and as a motorhome is the cost. This is the motorhome I have currently:

It only cost around £40K new so for the prices being quoted for the T5 conversions you could get one like mine and still have about £10K to spend on a 2nd hand car (for example my Mazda CX-7, which cost me all of £6K). Now IMHO the C-class motorhome is better at being a motorhome that a T5 conversion, and the CX-7 is better at being a car than a T5 conversion. Not only that I suspect that if I did car mileage with the T5 conversion it’d probably depreciate quicker as well. Each to their own however!

The downside for me Stve, is that I’d need to store something of that size away from home. If my drive was big enough, I’d find it harder to resist.

Are the smaller roads up in the Highlands or Lakes not off limits in something like this, I presume so? Have you never got stuck, or do you stick to more developed places to visit? Do the little things parking it when you’re out and about, visiting new villages/towns for example not become really tricky?

The 3-seat bench option on the Beach still makes a bed. That’s what’s in my order (just placed last week)… 🙂

iamtheresurection

I have driven a big coachbuilt camper up north – its possible tho not much fun. considering almost every road is used by 10 tonne trucks then its not impossible

My suggest to you would be to try hiring a differnt one and seeing how you get on Try a big coachbuilt and a van conversion ( but a bigger hardtop van)

The downside for me Stve, is that I’d need to store something of that size away from home. If my drive was big enough, I’d find it harder to resist.

That is a downside however I store mine at a secure facility and it’s only a few hundred a year for that.

Are the smaller roads up in the Highlands or Lakes not off limits in something like this, I presume so? Have you never got stuck, or do you stick to more developed places to visit? Do the little things parking it when you’re out and about, visiting new villages/towns for example not become really tricky?

We’ve been all over in ours – north of Scotland and the Western Isles, passes in the Alps and Scandinavia. Never had a problem with it anywhere (you have to remember that trucks and buses get along most of those roads) other than occasionally finding a car-park in city centres. We use public transport or our bikes a lot, plus now there are only two of us we’ll probably get a small motorbike to stick in the garage. Over on the continent motorhomes are very well catered for and loads are our size or bigger.

do what someone I recently met does.

picks up california no 1
orders california no 2.
several months later
sell california no 1 for barely less than he bought it for as someone always wants one NOW and will pay top dollar for a low mileage version.
picks up california no 2
orders california no 3
several months later
etc
etc

People are **** mad. £60k for a tiny van with the right badge on the front, or you could pay £40k for that thing Steve posted?!?! Going on holiday and sleeping in a van is madness; four of you sleeping in the same van is even crazier. But if you have to do it, at least get something fit for purpose.

Also, does anybody know if the reclining three seat rear bench (no cost option) still turn into a bed, or is that an extra row of seats or bed deletion? The salesman wasn’t sure…

It is 2/3 of the bed with the final tailgate-end of the bed made from the multiflex board which slides along the floor rails to be either a upper/lower split of the load area or the final third of the bed (it comes with a cushioned top). Result is a very wide bed that you can get 3 on for whatever reason takes your fancy.

EDIT Like this (not my pic, not my van, probably a Caravelle but same bench/board layout)

Warning though the 3-seat bench bed is very lumpy in terms of recesses for seatbelt components and requires a topper or therm-a-rests (as mentioned previously in the thread).

I’ve been living with a Beach for over three years – email in profile if you want a proper chat about how we use ours. We’re near Huddersfield if that helps.

Going on holiday and sleeping in a van is madness; four of you sleeping in the same van is even crazier. But if you have to do it, at least get something fit for purpose.

5 of us spent a week with a converted Hyundai i800 last summer, up and around the north coast of Scotland. Fit for purpose? Depends on what you consider fit. If you want rolling hotel room, then, sure buy a rolling hotel. If you want something that make your trips distinctly different from home life…well there are plenty of options.

For us, the Beach replaces our S-Max which spends much of its summer racked up with bikes, and roof box, and stuffed with a camp-gear.

BTW this is the sort of space you get for carrying bikes etc. in our C-class as it has decent sized garage:

One thing I particularly like is that when doing big mileages (e.g. when driving down to the south of Europe) the fixed beds mean we stop overnight in the motorway services or Aire’s over there and be in bed very quickly as they’re always made up and ready to use.

People are **** mad. £60k for a tiny van with the right badge on the front, or £40k for that thing Steve posted?!?!

You do realise that you sound like a lot of leisure cyclists outside the STW community?

“How much for that bike?!?!?! You’re mad….” 🙂

Blow up tent, super quick to put up come with built in ground sheet, good internal storage, ports for electric hook up etc. Probably as much time to setup as a camper and you can drive to places in the comfort of your car. Loads more room too for when it is raining outside and you have to stay in.

Check out Alpine Dan!

and then you have to take it down in the pissing rain with the kids in the car drawing on the headlining with the biro they found under a seat and hope you get a couple of dry days soon after you get home so you can put it back up and dry the thing out…

Drying out the tent is the biggest bane of my summer life…aside from cutting the bloody grass…

Unusual for STW to be such a dichotomy of opinions 🙂

Thanks for posting the picture of that 3 seat bench, Scuttler. Apparently, you have to spec it if you want the black upholstery, bit odd. It has a big advantage of an extra seat when picking up the boys and their friends too.

Has anybody confirmed that the diesel heater exhaust vents into the awning, or if it can be re-routed/bodged? Lastly, has anybody specked the anti-roll bars to stiffen it up a bit (£240 option) – tempted with that.

Thanks again all, the thread’s been a big help.

There’s not much worse than camping TBH.

Has anybody confirmed that the diesel heater exhaust vents into the awning, or if it can be re-routed/bodged? Lastly, has anybody specked the anti-roll bars to stiffen it up a bit (£240 option) – tempted with that.

So you’re gonna buy one even though you thought it was shit?

🙂
Pretty much David, the pictures in the brochure prove I was obviously missing the point. I just need to be educated.

Edit: sorry, less flippantly, I have had a good read of alternative opinions and thoughts about other vans and respective merit, value, convenience, resale value and so on and think maybe the best compromise is a lesser specced California and a side awning (and better preparation). At least I think it’s worth another go before dismissing.

Why don’t you try renting something different before committing to spending that sort of cash?

We didn’t actually rent before we bought our first one but were pretty convinced by that point that we wanted one and also what layout would work (we decided we wanted one with bunk beds and a garage at the back – back in 2004 there weren’t as many like that in the UK to rent or buy 2nd hand so ended up getting a new one). It would have been an expensive mistake to have bought one and not used it – or bought a layout that didn’t work for us.

No it vents out the drivers side so if you have a drive away awning you’ll get some fume action unless you put a skirt around the bottom which is what we do. Once it’s running the fumeage isn’t as bad, it’s not ideal but probably isn’t as bad as you think, the heater runs quite clean once it’s up to temp, stinks at startup. Excited above an external windscreen cover is much better than the internal ones. Inka seat covers or similar, Comfortz topper if required or internal topper is better we think.

My parents recently bought a pretty new second hand Danbury T5 conversion for a bit over £30k. It’s really nice but not very enduro or stw, before parking up at glentress or posting a pic of it on here you’d probably need to change the wheels to alloys and lower it etc. The Cali things are an insane price.

Camper vans take a bit of getting used to, I lived in one for 5 months albeit in Australia so rain rarely a problem. Pop top means you need to be careful with packing only what you need. My folks have a drive away awning thing and spend weeks in the van at a time quite happily. They won’t let me borrow it though 😆

I almost certainly will, but a big part of the appeal is going to work on a Friday morning with the van packed and heading straight off when the wife and kids get to work. I’m just not sure I could make that work with a van kept off site.

I certainly couldn’t get a van like yours parked at work, which would mean leaving work to go and get the van, swap the contents and so on by which point it would probably be 6.30. In a smaller van I’d be in the Borders by 7pm setting up the bbq.

I realise I’ve come full circle here from some of the posts about the size, but I honestly think I’ve been thinking about it all wrong (comments about the Ocean spec/build still stand).

T5 conversions have more space than you think if you learn to pack right. The storage openings are sometimes restrictive but give great vertical height. Three weeks around France we took a bike trailer, travel cot, vango self inflating drive away tent, 2 camping chairs, stroller, the usual stuff for a 3yr and 8 month old etc.

However, now with 3 kids under 5 it just would not work when it comes to trying to settle them in a confined space even with the tent. The Wife wants a Motorhome, I think the biggest family tent available would be better. In fact no, considering our circumstances its chalets or cottages from now onwards.

As a daily driver I did use mine on the 100 mile commute for a while. It was comfy and had a better turning circle than a Passat or our current Seat Alhambra which I think is just as wide. Around France it got a little tiresome without cruise control or air con, mind. If its kept and that’s a big if, I see it more as a day van or perhaps a few nights away with just me and the eldest two.

Camped next to one of these at Goodwood this weekend

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About the same price as a new VW Cali.

And they are good enough for Sir Brad

Wiggo’s camper van