This is the big one we had in france. Full size double bed in the back with another that dropped down over the front seats plus the sitting area made up into a third. Boot big enough to take the tandem. That would be comfy for a family no trouble. I never used the shower tho and the loo was only for night time piddles. Something like this gets you a nice comfy place to live but is compromised to drive
[url=https://flic.kr/p/6rdn1h]DSC00038[/url] by TandemJeremy, on Flickr

But then this one mum and dad and me and my sis spent 3 months in ( in 1966) makes the cali look big

T5/6 haterz will always hate for some strange reason.

and the evangalists will only ever have sunny pics and rose tinted specs 😉 Most of the posts are very balanced and reasoned Rich, nice tent BTW shame they pitched it in front of your van 😉

Has anyone tried the Merc equivalent the Marco Polo?

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/its-mercs-answer-vw-camper

My idea of getting away from it is not being parked alongside 30 other folk doing the same.

Not in a position to comment on the van, but let me point out that campsites are not all like that. In fact, I’d wager that by numbers most aren’t.

Camping and Caravan club, and Caravan Club have what they call Certified Locations. They are limited to 5 other campers and have a tap, sometimes toilets, sometimes showers. There are thousands of them all over the country, including all the upland and wilder parts, and mostly not even full so you end up in a field overlooking some fantastic view with no-one around. And they usually cost less than a tenner.

It does mean you have to join the club though and they send you a magazine which could’ve been written for a Top Gear episode.. definitely do not read the letters page…. 😳

This is when I had rose tinted specs 🙂
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/albums/72157600305868872
[url=https://flic.kr/p/NRrWD]Heading out of Glenbrittle[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr

Well the camping pics sum up a van of that size, it’s a way to get you there and have what you need but plan to be living outdoors. As a van they are on the small size (narrow for a start) so once you start putting stuff in they get tighter.

i don’t know about you, but i find sunbathing naked inside the van somewhat counter productive….. and as for firing up the grill…..

love that. It’s classic VW ownerbabblebullsit. The door being on the wrong side and a total pain in the arse and badlythought out is only a problem if you don’t cross the carriageway and park on the other side of the road

So much wrong assumption in your post – even from what I’ve written here in this thread it’s clear I’m a hater. I just don’t see what the big deal is about the above point.

Its not.

i don’t know about you, but i find sunbathing naked inside the van somewhat counter productive….. and as for firing up the grill…..

Me too, but I live in Oz where it’s sunny all the time and all that. In the UK it’s not always as nice, as pointed out by the OP the main cooker is inside. If you want to use that you can’t do as much.
Having van camped all over the UK in all weathers being able to sit inside and cook/eat etc without tripping over everything would be nice. Also not having the put up a tent every time you want some more space as the van you have is small. It’s a compromise vehicle where people see beyond it’s quirks a lot of the time – like the bike rack on every one – great but your bikes are outside all the time on show. For the 60k the OP is looking at I can see why he has some doubts.

can’t expect to cook if the internal table is being used

I don’t get this….we cook all the time with the internal table in use?

As for the rest of it, there’s only two of us in ours, and it works pretty well…you have to get used to moving things to get at things, but storage is pretty good for two.

Actually I don’t understand why so many people thing the downstairs bed is unbearable without a topper mattress….I think it’s pretty comfy

Can’t imagine trying to get a portaloo out of a roofbox…not one thats ready for use anyway!

If its just for emergencies, how about one of those bogs with a bag, they start from the foldable cardboard shitbox aka Ploo, but you can get plastic variants with a seat as well. Much lighter and more compact than a portaloo holding 20 litres of fluid (some flush and ‘enough to cover solids’ base).

Whilst we are talking about the T6, I find it strange that VW haven’t really taking advantage, and created a modern take on the classic ‘splitty’…doesn’t matter if you look at the Mini, Fiat 500, Beetle, although they’ve all got a bit blobby in recent years, they’ve all sold well.

They could do some clever stuff with a custom full raising roof, A class style drop down double bed over the cab, (which would have less bonnet and a steeper windscreen adding to the interior length – driving position would just be behind a much bigger dashboard), the possibilities go on with perhaps a side tailgate that opens to create an instant awning (with sides and the windows become a sunroof). A tad wider and you’d get a sideways bed at the back saving yet more space.

And it would still be a T6 from the floorpan down…

I get campers at the cheaper end, but if you are going to spend £30k + that’s a lot of years you could spend in very nice cottages where you don’t have people so close to you etc

Having overcome my 10-year resistance to getting a campervan (and having hired them in the past), I spent the spring and summer agonising over which to get.

For a T5/6 to be an effective use of what is a lot of money for the vast majority of people (including us), the campervan needed to be our main family vehicle. I looked very closely at a new T6 – from the base £37k Beach to top-spec £60k Ocean – as well as every other T5/6-based variant from DIY conversions of older T5s to big-name conversions on new T6s.

VW’s own California offerings are very expensive when compared to builder’s van-based conversions. I’m sure they are superior, but for most they won’t be as good value. We settled on a Danbury conversion of a 3-year-old T5, which offers the function of a Cali Ocean – but without such a nice base vehicle spec. A Beach with a cooking pod was an option, too. Being a T5/6 though, most things you want can be retrofitted – and it seemed better to us to get a conversion with cooking etc already set up. I’ll probably add some modern touches to our base van; like parking sensors, uprated stereo and possibly a new steering wheel.

These vehicles are small and do involve compromises, but will generally fit into most people’s lives well and be capable of fulfilling a lot of roles. For us, being a compact day van and overnight camper was more important than being a multi-week camper.

I’ve just got rid of our modern and comfortable MPV, which was our only car. The campervan now fulfils all roles apart from being a city car (which we’ve now got as well). The T5/6 is great at covering lots of bases adequately, but not necessarily being the best at any – and should be seen in that context IMO.

FunkyDunc, we’ve talked about that a lot. There are lots of places I want to go and explore, Norway and Scandanavia, Europe and so on. I just want to jump in something with the family and travel wherever we want or don’t want, no timetable.

I could hire a van for the same purposes, but the idea of heading out on a Friday at 5 for a couple of hours drive to escape urban life, returning on a Sunday night after nearly of walking or biking really appeals. In my mind, we’d be using it every other weekend, I accept reality could be different. It would also replace my car and when you put them both together spending £60k on something that would still have an unbelievable strong residual in 10 years more or less makes sense. The actual cost of ownership is pretty low.

Twodogs: maybe it’s the extra people, where did you prep? I had two boys trying to build Lego (I know) on the table, so I was chopping and prepping on my knee. Trying to get anything out of the cupboards under the table once I started was very awkward. Again, I should have thought about this before we travelled but until you try something it’s hard to know whether the limitations you’re expecting are mildly compromising or debilitating. No mattress topper would be fine for the odd night, but more than one night back to back is more uncomfortable than I’d want it to be. It’s fine with a topper, just don’t understand why it’s now an extra…

Spooky: I was thinking more travel with the loo in the roof box, but get it out when you set up camp. On quite a few forums, people travel with it under the cutlery draw in the kitchen cupboard. Maybe I’m precious, but I think that’s pretty grim.

Did you see the links above to the fit out kits for other vans? Possible to get a layout that works better or suits you more (or a bigger cheaper Van, keep the car and have some change)

returning on a Sunday night after nearly of walking or biking really appeals. In my mind, we’d be using it every other weekend,

You will be needing the what bike rack thread next…

We had a self converted T5 for a good few years. Full width R&R bed, removable cooker pod, table, swivel fronts etc but no pop top. 2 of us plus dog.
We used to have a ’72 bay which was even smaller, albeit with a pop top and full Devon camper conversion.
The best way to look at them is as a big metal tent that you can drive around. They are much nearer to that in size and use ability than they are to a full size camper.
We loved ours for short breaks where we were out all day, maybe going to the pub in the evening or chilling outside. When the weather was rubbish, or there wasn’t anywhere within walking distance it can get a bit wearing being sat in the van especially if you’ve not got an awning. Same for longer trips if you’ve got more stuff with you.
Seemed to spend a fair bit of time moving things around to get to other things, having to be super organised all the time.
We got rid last year and bought a caravan. Much better for longer trips, foul weather and for lounging around in. Useless for wild camping and a bit less spontaneity.
The smaller vans are great for their intended purpose but you need to be happy with the lack of space and other restrictions placed on them by their size and the way the inside features are packaged. It’s a lot of money too so I’d strongly suggest looking at some of the indipendant conversions as well as the ‘official’ VW ones to see if their interior suit you better.
Will second Caravan Club CL sites too, we never stay on their full blown sites, always use CLs. Max 5 pitches, facilities ranging from the min of running water and chemical waste point up to luxury showers, wi fi etc. Wide range of prices too.

Its coming round to the time when the Motorhome show is on at the NEC. You can view almost every van in on place without shooting off all over the country to view them. There are always some good deals on Thats what we did two years ago and bought one, a Chausson Welcome 718 EB, for the start of last years summer. We have done 10,000 miles in it since we bought it. Should have bought one years ago.
We wanted a VW in the 80s when each weekend was spent on the beach windsurfing but decided as we got older that we needed the creature comforts of a bigger one. Only criteria was a garage for four bikes and a bed that didnt need making up. When we went to the show we had no intention of buying but bought one on impulse as the deals were so good.
Setting off tonight for the EWS in Valberg for another week in it.
Kevins dad had one of those Bedfords, he spent most weekends as a kid some where in Yorkshire due to the fact of its speed and gearbox they never managed to get any further.

I did, Mike, thanks. I don’t really have the time or skill to really get stuck into it like that, but I’ll be speaking to a couple of coach builders about potential layout.

I agree, Matt. The thing is though, after thinking that an awning is needed for cooking and breakout/seating areas for family use, a topper to keep the raised roof waterproof and so on, I might as well just stick with a car a buy a bigger tent.

The thread turned into how we could make that size van for us, which is great and I’ve enjoyed reading every post, the OP was more about how disappointed I was with the build, layout and quality of materials for the money.

Was looking at this last night before I fell asleep. Great seating, beds, full size internal garage, space to sit and cook if it’s raining, toilet, shower and so on for the same price. It’ll probably be lucky to break 25mpg, and I’d need a small car for daily duties, but it looks like much better value to me. https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/172237872220

We just bought a coachbuilt motorhome, 7.5m and based on a Fiat Ducato.

We hired somethign similar during the summer to try and make sure it would work for us.

We also looked at the ‘converted panel van’ type of campers (big Fiats etc) and VW T6’s etc.

They’re all a compromise the smaller the van the less space you have to carry out tasks inside if it’s raining (we mainly do uk stuff) and the more ‘on top’ of each other you all feel after a few days. The larger van conversions still felt like a compromise as they tend to have very limited floor space.

So, for us a full size motorhome with a decent amount of storage, a shower we can hang wet clothes in, decent lockers round the outside for storing chairs, electric cables etc, enough space for 2 adults, 2 teenagers and a large dog to travel (the kids have their own tent if they come with us so actual sleeping apace wasn’t a priority) comfortably and be able to sit round on a rainy morning whilst breakfast cooks etc was the logical choice.

I think if you’re a family lookign for a ‘second car with benefits’ or a couple who’d be in a smallish tent then a campervan makes sense but if you just want it for going away in or woudl buy a large family tent then there’s too much of a compromise in owning one.

We’ve done tent camping (massive Outwell job), owned a caravan, had a trailer tent etc and for us the motorhome is the least awkward and most convenient solution for weekends away and a week or two away a few times a year.

But everyone’s different.

IF you’re looking to buy a motorhome I’d rent one of a similar size and layout for a weekend at least to make sure you’re happy. Take it to the sort of site you’d stay at and make sure it’ll go down the roads you;d drive, fit in the places you’d visit etc.

Biggest issue with any van conversion or coach built is the proliferation of height restricted car parks, tbh.

Plenty of 6 metre vans that are about the same length as a LWB T5 plus a bike rack, but the benefit of having the bikes in the garage when you want to park up and go for a meal. Obviously you end up with a high roof, but don’t find car park barriers too much of an issue.

If you are speaking to converters, and are not too tall, you won’t go far wrong with a medium length Ducato, sideways rear bed and garage. Just need to do some careful measuring as there is always a compromise with space for built up bikes under the bed, and sitting headroom whilst in bed. I’ve opted for a height that means I can sit up, and need to take just the front wheels off the bikes.

On the reality front – a camper like that one you posted is a different kettle of fish to a Cali. Size, storage etc all need to be considered. I’ve got nowhere I could safely park something that big – my van fits in my double garage no worries so on that front it works. We keep looking at sprinter size conversions but it comes back to having that plus a rarely used car. Be realistic about getting away as well with kids that age – school, Friday being knackered, sports, parties etc all eat into the ‘just go’ mind space and you can find that you end up using it once in a blue moon (after the honeymoon summer !) we have managed it this year with 14 trips so far inc me using it to ski twice. Will you go away in the winter ? One good thing on the VWs seems to be residuals as I have someone looking at mine meaning it will have cost me 5k over 2 years and 14000miles which I don’t think is too bad.

Edit – scuttles away to copy Alpins van!

Just bought this, and even adding in 5k for converting (no way will I spend that much though!) I’d still be well shy of a quarter of the cost of a new T6 camper.

As suggested in earlier posts, it’s a van, not a car and it doesn’t drive like a car. I will use it as a race van, the only other person sleeping in it will be my 9 year old daughter, mrs Nobeer will not set foot in it!.

Any camper/caravan/whatever is a compromise, as long as you’re willing to make that compromise, then it’s fine. 60k is an awful lot of bed and breakfasts!.

[/url]Veedub by nobeerinthefridge, on Flickr[/img]

We have spent a long time away this year in a self converted lwb, no pop top. I built the furniture as a bench down each side plus a kitchen unit, so along the lines of alpin’s above (some really good ideas there), except our bed goes full width. We have room to store a winter down duvet, pillows, and a memory foam topper in one bench, and clothes for 2 weeks in the other. The bed is as comfortable as my bed at home. We started with an awning but it is a pain to lug about and put up and down, so instead we cut down on the amount of extra shit and make do with a canopy.

The point is, you get enough space for 2, but that’s it. I wouldn’t want 4 in one for more than 1 dry night. If I had kids I’d want something bigger.

We stay on campsites and see a huge amount of t5/6s. It’s funny but you do notice that a lot of them only stop for 1 night, especially if they have kids and no awning.

This summer we were on a site between 2 Cali beaches. Both families with 2 young kids. I don’t know how they did it, but I did notice one couple gave up and slept under the stars (this was low 20s at night on the med). Plus they needed to have so much shit outside the vans, it just wouldn’t be practical in this country.

It is £60k!!! but you do get most of that back when you sell them so it’s more palatable. It is bonkers money though I agree.

I had 3 different VW T3 pop tops including a california, had a T4 california pop top and a LWB T4 Exclusive high top with bathroom. I’ve hired a T5 Cali too.

Most families buy a camper when they have kids, we sold ours. The kids ruined the whole experience…

With people willing to spend upto £60k on one of these vw vans, I am surprised Audi hasn’t released one so people can pay £80k instead.

Mind you this one was a bit small for one and rattled like hell
[url=https://flic.kr/p/saFwQi]Ready[/url] by Mike Smith, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/s8bFSb]And the adventures begin[/url] by Mike Smith, on Flickr
And it was damm freezing without the heaters on

Llama, any chance of some pictures of your set up fella?

Twodogs: maybe it’s the extra people, where did you prep?

Either on the table – if my OH isn’t playing with lego 🙂 or on fridge top. It is a pain to get at the cupboards with the table up….I find myself sliding it back and forth a lot.

For 2 people, t5/6 based campers are a good compromise….small enough to go everywhere …you just need to be organised (being a bit OCD helps!)

If I had 2 kids as well (or when we get more dogs) I’d get a drive away awning as a playroom.

I’ve been looking into this for some time now as a possible replacement for my SMax. The conclusion I’ve come to is that I don’t want one configured as a permanent camper as it takes up too much interior space.

I ideally would want a van with a pop top for the kids for short terms/weekend camping duties using fold away camp beds in the main part of the van for the adults, a drive away awning to provide a bit more space for lazing around as there is just zero space inside a T5 camper. For longer camping holidays use the usual big family tent but have all the extra lugging space with the van rather than using roof boxes with the SMax. Then when not camping have the space to carry bikes internally and a lot of people lugging capability.

Still not convinced it’s what I want or need.

My daughter uses upstairs as her den, plays up there etc. In winter I have made a flexi pipe that takes hot air from the heater exit up into the roof space, that plus an internal topper makes it really nice and cosy. Leaves all of downstairs free to roam.
But I agree, kids have ruined our campervanning.

alpin – nice choice of beer. The Augustiner Helles is maybe my 2nd favourite beer, after the Edelstof.

We’ve had a motorhome for over a decade now and while it would be nice to have a smaller van you could almost use as a daily driver and park in normal parking spaces I find them just too small. Our current one has a fixed rear double bed, a big garage (big enough for a motorbike or lots of bicycles) and quite a bit of storage room inside – as well as a decent sided shower etc. We mostly do still use campsites but we also often “wild” camp as well and we’re fine for a few days like that (longer if I take the Honda generator with us). Even now it’s just the two of us on most trips (the kids being older) I can’t really see us ever going to a much smaller van.

It’s the local grog…. 😀

Nobeer… If you want any pointers let me know…. There is a lot more going on that you can’t see.

for those who have hired… where have you hired from? Is there anywhere recommended nearer to London?

It’s the local grog….

Used to be mine too, back when I lived in Munich. Easier to get over in the UK now than it used to be, thankfully.

Cheers Alpin, I’ll take you up on that.

No worries…..

OP

We own a ’15 VW Cali 180 manual which we bought in January this year. It is our only vehicle.

We’ve done a mixture of wild and campsite camping both here and abroad. I might add the campsites in Europe are of a higher class (most of the time) and provide more privacy.

At present it’s me, the wife and 3 yo daughter although we’re close to the arrival of our second. So slightly different circumstances to yourself. Although there’s still a requirement to remove the car seat and iso fix base once we arrive as part of setting up.

A few things to consider if they’ve not already been mentioned. If you don’t like camping then a VW Cali may not be for you. It is in essence glamping.

In regards to some of your gripes and concerns some are easily addressed. A lot is about getting into a routine as things need to be done in a certain order to make setting up camp easier and more efficient.

As for the upholstery we bought waterproof covers.

I’ll admit it’s not as comfy as the 320d touring the Cali replaced to drive but I find it OK. We did 1500 miles this summer from Leeds to the Basque via ferry and back through France for our returning ferry and it was excellent. Again a mixture of wild and campsites. Rather than rain the only problem we faced was escaping from the heat. Thankfully we were at a campsites during the 3 days it was 36 degrees and a pool was very welcoming.

I find the storage to be fine. Overhead locker for toiletries. Wardrobe and under chair drawer for clothes. Cupboard space for cooking, food and toys in our case. Under the seat for less used elements (chocks, levellers, hook up, etc.) Cupboards at the back too.

As for the windscreen blinds we don’t use ours and purchased external thermal black out windscreen covers. Great in winter and summer. We also bought a Cali Topper for the roof. We don’t always use it (and it has rained without issue) but find it is useful in the colder months and as extra protection from the rain.

Also, we got a great deal on our Cali from VW Commercial dealership (as the T6 had just been released). We were initially looking at the second hand market but the hold their value really well so due to the deal we bought new and part-chopped our car. So a pre-owned one could be an option for you and your family? I personally think that is a big advantage of buying a Cali.

As you’ve already said your boys loved it. That was also a reason for us. The potential for lots of little adventures. Overnighters, weekends away and longer European roadtrips. We saw the purchase as an investment.

OP – most of your bad points would be addressed by a non-VW conversion and/or looking at accessories that I’ve found are almost essential for camping. For the roof and front windows, thermal wraps. Takes a few minutes to put on and take off but keeps the van much cooler in summer and warmer in winter and are waterproof. The material on most pop-top roofs I looked at was pretty rubbish.

The space thing is something others have alluded to about the van layout and its something I was seriously worried about when we got ours but we had a fortnight away in August – a week camping and a week in a house and everything went in without a problem: 2 weeks worth of clothes for us two and the kids, big 4-berth awning we use for storage whilst we’re there (kids car seats, bikes if we have them etc) and eating in etc, sleeping bags, chairs, beach stuff etc etc. On initial inspection there doesn’t seem to be a lot of space especially when you factor in one whole cupboard in our van gets loaded with crockery, cutlery, food, drinks etc but its surprising how much stuff goes in.

Had ours just over 2 years now and can’t really fault it. We found that using it day to day became a bit of a faff no matter what people say although a lot of that is my OCD about it and leaving it in car parks etc.

Someone mentioned rose tinted specs… If you get really sh*t weather then yes, its pretty small. We had a weekend in North Wales during July and between midnight on the Friday and midnight on the Saturday it absolutely lashed down. Heaved down. Sea upside down type stuff. Quite frankly it was horrible – 24 hours stuck in the van with a 3 year old and a 6 year old. Made up for it on the Sunday though when the sun came out. With it only being 2 nights away we only had our tarp with us so not much space. Anything over 3/4 nights and we take the big awning.

We’d been talking about getting a VW camper for 17/18 years and we’re glad we did it especially with the kids they are they are. We absolutely love it.

Similar sized vans are available from other manufacturers at significantly less cost.