I think that the student has surpassed his master.

Does he have anything to compare to the 606 shelving system? I do like a lot of Dieter Rams design. Has Ives ever done anything that isn’t Apple?

“Has Ives ever done anything that isn’t Apple?”

Rams’ best work was all at Braun, I think. I don’t know if Ive has done much outside Apple or if he rose in the ranks; he’s still quite young. I did not realise, until today, that Ive was from Essex.

Due to a flight delay out of Frankfurt, I was fortunate to stumble upon a Dieter Rams exhibition – it was a bit rushed, but it was awesome. He seems to be an originator of a great many design ideas you see in every modern household. In this sense, perhaps Ive is just a successful imitator. the classic iPod is uncannily like the Braun pocket radio!

But Apple products are iconic, they consistently change people’s expectation about music reproduction and computing appliances, and they’ve sold incredible numbers of units globally to people in so many walks of life. So this is why I think Ive has surpassed his master.

I think that the student has surpassed his master.

What makes you say that?

Edit – you just did. Phone rang mid reply…

Ive went to my uni, northumbria, and went straight to Apple after graduating, so no, he hasn’t done anything outside of Apple

But Apple products are iconic, they consistently change people’s expectation about music reproduction and computing appliances, and they’ve sold incredible numbers of units globally to people in so many walks of life. So this is why I think Ive has surpassed his master.

Just remembered I never followed up on my original post. Unfortunately I’m struggling to put into words what I think about the Ive V Braun debate. I seem to have lost the ability to write a coherent point recently.

Ive makes a nice looking box, but the tech (or at least the specific combinations thereof) inside those boxes has been revolutionary. He’s been employed to package a revolution, and he has done it spectacularly.

I wasn’t there to follow the career of Rams as it happened, but I think – for his time – he played more of a part in the fortunes of Braun than Ive has Apple. After all the contents of Ram’s boxes weren’t particularly revolutionary – they were the same as all the other products out there. But he managed to lift the user experience above that of the competition using clever product design alone.

So I think it was the vision of Rams that gave Braun the edge. He was the man that made Braun the company it was in its heyday. While I think it has been the vision of Steve Jobs that gave Apple its edge.

In their respective machines then, I think Ive has been a smaller cog than Rams was.

Of course Ive is part of a much bigger machine, and is therefore perhaps a bigger cog than Rams ever was.

Does that make sense?

I’m a big fan of both chaps, whatever :o)

Apple have bin successful because they had a great team; Jobs and Woz, with Ive doing the makes look nice stuff.

But the success was in creating what the market wanted:

A home computer that came in one, simple, attractive package, din’t require a degree in computer science to operate, and what did what you wanted it to. Made using computers ‘fun’.

That’s a combination of software and hardware design, which focussed on how people wanted to use a computer, not what geeks thought they should be using. Revolutionised the way computers are used by most people. All the iProducts integrate with each other, and the overall experience is far more pleasant than if some geek had created what they wanted rather than considering the needs of the market.

Warton – Ive was at Tangerine (London Agency) before Apple (we went there on a uni tour from Sheff Hallam many moons ago and someone mentioned it).

ps i don’t like apple kit

Rams was so ahead of his time that he wins hands down.