Tjagain – factor in working tax credits, loss of child benefit and no state contribution towards nursery fees for 2 kids (30 hours a week per child) and the scouser is considerably better off than the 100K Londoner who needs to set aside c£50k salary to pay out £3k a month in nursery fees when the scouser gets it for free. But I rather suspect you already know this.

You would need around 4,539.68£ in London to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 2,600.00£ in Liverpool (assuming you rent in both cities).

from

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=Liverpool&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=London

so that is about 1 grand a month better off in London on £100k vs £40k in Liverpool using

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

so if you are wanting to buy a house I reckon that makes you worse off.

So you finally admit my premise is right.

So you finally admit my premise is right.

certainly not if you want to buy a house, or if you add in factors like childcare costs.

So what are your plans – rent for the rest of your life and then rely on welfare for your rent in retirement ?

Which will be derived from that extra tax income paid by the high earners in London and the South East – that will really stick in your craw 🙂

Whatever happened to our very rich friend Jezza? Dont forget the poor bloke. He already bring marginalised by Brexshit and we wouldn’t want him to get a complex

Did you see him in the news tonight?

*Bangs head on wall* the numbers you quote show that I am right.

actually I am in the richest 20% of the UK and own my property. I earn 32000 Pa

Are all you lefty lot thick as sh1t ?

The swear filter avoidance thread is thataway………>

actually I am in the richest 20% of the UK and own my property.

so you’re saying that everyone else should rent ?

As I said if you want to own your home then you are worse off in London than Liverpool on those salaries. You only have an extra grand to cope with the much higher mortgage you are going to need.

I don’t even own my own house – nearly 4/5s of it and a tight squeeze to get the rest of it before this ageist industry spits me out.

And a 14 year old car, although that is false bleating as I enjoy driving it and I can get my mtb in the back.

IIRC the UK average salary is around £27K and two thirds of UK workers don’t earn that.Many of those who don’t earn that work in London too-in retail,public sector,customer services,service sector,leisure etc etc.They all live somewhere and raise their families too though I suspect their housing choices are more Dagenham than Camden and involve a lot of commuting. IANALondoner.I’m sure they’d be delighted to struggle earn £100k.

No – what I am saying is very simple and your quotes proved it. £100 000 pa makes you one of the richest few ~% in our country. thats all.

No – what I am saying is very simple and your quotes proved it. £100 000 pa makes you one of the richest few ~% in our country. thats all.

but the salary in Liverpool that affords you the same standard of living doesn’t…

No – what I am saying is very simple and your quotes proved it. £100 000 pa makes you one of the richest few ~% in our country. thats all.
but the salary in Liverpool that affords you the same standard of living doesn’t..

No because you are comparing the country not regions

Folks it looks like the TJAgain cyber bot is having a logic failure – please can someone do a CTRL-ALT-DEL to restore the normal logical service? 😀

No logic failure here. the figures Turnerguy quoted prove my point

True but the miniature violin quartet has stopped playing for those who are feeling poor on good money. The level of detatchment from what is going on at times is startling

True but the miniature violin quartet has stopped playing for those who are feeling poor on good money. The level of detatchment from what is going on at times is startling

Agreed. I’ve observed that rich people look up rather than down when they’re comparing their circumstances.

Is there anything more stw than a bunch of IT guys complaining that a 100k salary just doesn’t make you rich enough ? 🙂

So what are your plans – rent for the rest of your life and then rely on welfare for your rent in retirement ?

A lot of people have no choice to do otherwise. Not helped by the richest taking more than their fair share from the pot.

Instead of obsessing over the tax you pay think about how much money you take in comparison to others.

I know a few people on that kind of money down in that there London. Would I class any of them as struggling? No. Whiny cockbags? Yeah, lots of them.

And their choice to live there.

Something TurnerGuy seems determined to ignore.

The level of detachment from what is going on at times is startling

well quite. some folk on here seem to be wildly out of touch with how a very large part of their countrymen and women live.

Struggling myself to hit that £100k barrier. Been trying for years and nowhere near it. But next year, is when I’ll make it big and that’s why I’ll be voting Tory. I’m a striver. An aspirer.

Missed all this. Probably a good thing. Quite frankly anyone earning anywhere near 100k and claiming they’re struggling needs to have a look at their life choices. A 100k income by any definition puts you in the top bracket. If that’s you, then well done and stop whingeing.

My cousin and her fella are the highest earners I know.

He is 29 and already a partner in a cyber espionage company, has a salary of 160k and last year had a bonus of 250k. Despite this they bemoan the cost of their mortgage on their 1.5m house and the cost of financing their Audi A8 and Range Rover.

Some people are so removed from the reality of the majority it makes me sad for humanity.

It true that London living is expensive, but no one is forced to buy the biggest house and drive the flashiest car.

I choose not to earn more than I need, specifically so that I’ve got more time for doing the things I enjoy and to avoid working just to pay the taxman. Despite that I can still afford a van, a nice bike and the ridiculous rents, but compared to some of my neighbours I am not rich. However, I’m sure relative to the lady working for minimum wage behind the till I am loaded.

And while I agree with tj in principle, his use of “richest” rather than “highest earner” loses him the internet points he do desperately craves.

It’s a stupid debate, because it’s arguing over what ‘rich’ means when it’s a totally subjective term.

People in (parts of) London on £100k don’t feel rich because they are surrounded by mega rich people and £5m flats and the rest of it. They look at what is around them, see they have no chance of ever affording it, and feel poor. Conversely, those in a Valleys town on £100k can buy some of the best houses in town and they feel rich. It’s all about perception.

I read once an article about a remote Himalayan village, the writer had been there and found everyone happy and content, no beggars. Then they put in a big road, and then suddenly all the kids were begging from the new travellers. Because they’d started seeing what other people had, and realised they were poor. They went from rich to poor without any change in their actual income.

And while I agree with tj in principle, his use of “richest” rather than “highest earner” loses him the internet points he do desperately craves.

Succinctly and eloquently wrapped up there alpin. Now let’s get back to politics.

People in (parts of) London on £100k don’t feel rich because they are surrounded by mega rich people and £5m flats and the rest of it.

That comes back to my point about only looking up when assessing wealth. Even in expensive parts of London, they still allow ordinary people in: it’s not a gated community of the uber rich.

It’s a stupid debate, because it’s arguing over what ‘rich’ means when it’s a totally subjective term.

It’s really about accumulated wealth vs net income, but… yes..

If you look at how ‘rich’ anyone in the UK is in global terms the poorest people here are fabulously wealthy. Same in historical terms. The poorest are far wealthier than ever before.

People in (parts of) London on £100k don’t feel rich because they are surrounded by mega rich people and £5m flats and the rest of it. They look at what is around them, see they have no chance of ever affording it, and feel poor. Conversely, those in a Valleys town on £100k can buy some of the best houses in town and they feel rich. It’s all about perception

Double standards Mol.
We all live in the same country.

Now let’s get back to politics.

This is politics Mol.
Real politics, not the Westminster show.
It’s about how people behave toward others and the kind of society they want to see.

FFS – what I said was someone earning 100k in London could be no better off than someone earning 40k in Liverpool – and looking at housing costs this could easily be true, or close to true. Maybe 50k in Liverpool is closer.

But the 100k earner in London is classed by TJ as rich, whereas a 50k earner in Liverpool is not, when there is little difference in how much money they have left over after the bills have gone out, and little difference in standard of living as well.

Is there anything more stw than a bunch of IT guys complaining that a 100k salary just doesn’t make you rich enough ?

You are making stuff up again, like usual. Where are the complaints ?

This is politics Mol.
Real politics, not the Westminster show.
It’s about how people behave toward others and the kind of society they want to see.

No. This argument is about semantics. We all agree that society is too unequal, that’s not what’s being debated. We seem to be bickering about the definition of the word ‘rich’. Which is stupid. There are loads of other ways to make the point about societal inequality using numerical stats.

Double standards Mol.
We all live in the same country.

That’s exactly my point. People feel rich or poor depending on what’s around them, even if they still have the same amount of money.

Old figures but :

Differentials between London and UK rates

The single biggest element in the extra cost of living in the capital is housing. In January 2014, Land Registry figures showed average house prices across the whole of England and Wales were £168,536, but in London the average was £409,881 (143% higher than the England/Wales rate). This house price gap has been growing ever larger, with London experiencing 10.9% growth over the last year, compared to 4.2% across England and Wales.

The same picture is apparent in the private rental sector, with the
the England rental rate runnings at £665 a month in January 2014, compared to £1,516 a month in London (128% higher than the England
rate). The differential in local authority rented property is less exaggerated but still significant, with a average rent across England
running at £79 a week in 2012/13, compared to £99 in London (25
% higher than the England average).

People feel rich or poor depending on what’s around them, even if they still have the same amount of money.

It’s not ‘feel’. I can buy land for 3K an acre near me. How much is it in London?

Isn’t mols a rich IT guy anyway – I thought he consulted so therefore ‘richer’ than me…

This argument is about semantics. We all agree that society is too unequal, that’s not what’s being debated. We seem to be bickering about the definition of the word ‘rich’. Which is stupid.

+1

However, there is political point here, in that someone earning £100k is not the problem, despite what Corbyn may claim. It’s the Apples, Ubers, Facebooks (and their owners) that are the problem, for avoiding tax, hording cash, and avoiding regulation, hence, reducing costs and using it to put others out of business.

It’s the Apples, Ubers, Facebooks (and their owners) that are the problem, for avoiding tax

Easily solved. Get rid of corporation tax. It’s just a stealth tax anyway.

in that someone earning £100k is not the problem, despite what Corbyn may claim

When has Corbyn claimed someone earning 100k is a problem? I think he’s more bothered about the FTSE CEOs earning 20m and the likes of facebook paying only 1M in corporation tax.

Get rid of corporation tax

So companies shouldn’t pay towards the legal and intellectual property framework which allows them to operate and the markets they have access to?

it’s really all about preception and priorities.

a friend of mine was recently complaining about her neighbours having 5 holidays a year. her neighbours have no kids and an old Mercedes van that they take away for 2-3 weeks t a time.

i countered her* and said that they probably spent less on holidays than her new car cost. she came back and said that the car wasn’t new, it weas second hand; they couldn’t afford a new car. their not-new car cost them 34,000€…

my friend has just moved in to her new 800,000€ house.

her fella** earns over 120k. she earns ~70k part time. that is almost seven times what i chose to earn.

i think my life is possibly richer than theirs. they would probably disagree as they have children and everyone knows that’s what makes your life richer.

wealth is so unevenly distributed throughout society. why should the guy cleaning the hospital get paid so much less than the divvy blonde with the long eyelashes sitting at the reception desk of some multi-national? who adds more value to society?

It’s the Apples, Ubers, Facebooks (and their owners) that are the problem, for avoiding tax, hording cash, and avoiding regulation, hence, reducing costs and using it to put others out of business.

i agree… just completed a big job for Google which is currently taking place in Munich. last month it was Facebook in Brussels. the amount of money splurged on these self-aggrandising events and at the same time the amount of penny pinching is sick. a little bit of me dies each time i’m involved.

*not a euphemism

** an active member of some German equivalent of “old school boy” club with fascist tendencies…

some people are so removed from the realities of life….

That’s exactly my point. People feel rich or poor depending on what’s around them, even if they still have the same amount of money.

Feelings don’t pay bills.
All very interesting, but nothing to do with facts.

Yes, exactly!