Stoner –delusional –yeah thanks daddy o –of course he may not reflect your ‘leanings’ -but there are already plenty for you to choose from –all us lefties want is one we can relate to–you keep yoor revisionist opportunist baggage for some media doll that soothes you …

I’d say she’s a shoe in Stoner. Once they’ve finished they’re pretending to have a debate, and even let the token comedy left winger play as well. She ticks all the labour boxes

PPE from Oxford
Never had an actual job
Lives in Islington
Probably holidays in Tuscany
Never been seen outside London
Generally ****ing clueless

Put your house on it!

and she’s a wimmin too.

Never been seen outside London

You’d never have guessed:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMLvP6kNWPg[/video]

I’d rather support a party that was truly left of centre that was not in power than have no left of centre party to vote for at all.

+1. This may sound ridiculous to those who think the labour party can get into power on a centrist agenda and then do ‘left’ things when they’re there, but the main problems with this is that..

1. The last two elections have shown they can’t get into power on a centrist/right agenda, mainly because they’ve lost their base supporters to the SNP and UKIP
2. The last labour govt didn’t do all these wonderful ‘left’ things people talk about.

Going back to the law analogy. If democracy is to work, it needs a leftwing option otherwise there’s no point. There’s no point in the defence whining to the judge and jury that they don’t like being the defence and they’d rather be the prosecution instead.

everyone thinking that Corbyn is the messiah and that a left wing labour government can surely only follow his ascension is delusional.

The only true question is whether the “left” want a strong-voiced, clear left-wing ideological party in permanent opposition OR an electable centre/right/left red Conservative electable brand of Labour with which to block right wing government and press the social democratic agenda.

When the delusional come to their senses, do they still stand by the principled left wing politician, or will pragmatism lead them back to No10 with Chuka to evict Dave?

this +1

So easy to be idealogically sound, isolate oneself from the electorate and be smugly satisfied as one sits on the sidelines.

Personally I’d rather see some Left wing policies rather than none – and if that means some Realpolitik, so be it.

And Milliband was far from an effective centre-right candidate.

One last point – Jeremy will be 71 at the next election. Just saying…

I’d rather support a party that was truly left of centre that was not in power than have no left of centre party to vote for at all.

and that I applaud, convert. But when in 2020, it’s PM Boris, or Theresa, or George, and they’ve sunk Corbyn’s battleship, there’d better not be a load of whining about it 🙂

But I guess the question is why would you care?

I care because in the absence of PR voting, consensus politics in the middle ground is, to me (IMO yadda yadda etc etc), preferable to hard leftism whining from the side lines leaving hard rightism in power to do as they please.

But I guess the question is why would you care? If a tory in a red tie got into 10 Downing Street would a supporter of the true left feel any more that a party which represented them was in power than if a tory with a blue tie was in power?

Hmm, Tony Blair being a case in point perhaps?

Minimum wage
Human Rights Act
Massive expansion in NHS and School Spending (abject the fact we may be paying for it for the rest of our lives)
Scottish and Welsh Devolution
Freedom of Information
House of Lords reform
Civil Partnerships
Reduction in child poverty (tax credits, child benefit etc.)
paternity, maternity, and adoption leave

The right wing C***!

politriks has been moving to a US stylee-where two or combo of smaller pro capitalist parties all compete for the residence of certain london houses–what they all do is neither much here or there –its not far off, hence the huge disinterst in it –the votes for ‘alternatives’ -ukip and in scotland they were given a clear socialist option -where the only part of the country that saw over 50% voting for it –as opposed to the tories getting barely 30 % –i long abandoned parlimentary nonsense , but you do need some people there to expose the brayin puppets..

Doesn’t matter a damn who becomes the Labour leader, unless Murdoch decides to back them they haven’t got a chance after the press has finished savaging them.

when in 2020, it’s PM Boris, or Theresa, or George

I believe this will be the case no matter who wins the labour leadership election.

I care because in the absence of PR voting, consensus politics in the middle ground is, to me (IMO yadda yadda etc etc), preferable to hard leftism whining from the side lines leaving hard rightism in power to do as they please.

Steady on there Stoner, you’re sounding almost liberal. Are you feeling OK?

everyone thinking that Corbyn is the messiah and that a left wing labour government can surely only follow his ascension is delusional.

The only true question is whether the “left” want a strong-voiced, clear left-wing ideological party in permanent opposition OR an electable centre/right/left red Conservative electable brand of Labour with which to block right wing government and press the social democratic agenda.

When the delusional come to their senses, do they still stand by the principled left wing politician, or will pragmatism lead them back to No10 with Chuka to evict Dave?

Nonsense for a couple of reasons:
1. Many people like Corbyn not because they agree with everything he says but because he is a breath of fresh air in a sea of beige, identikit politicians.
2. Labour positioning themselves as “mild Tories” was tried recently – it didn’t work out too well for them.

when in 2020, it’s PM Boris, or Theresa, or George

I believe this will be the case no matter who wins the labour leadership election.

Unfortunately I think you’re right. The Tories at the last election, taking full advantage of the fact they were up against an utterly clueless muppet, successfully put labour in a box labelled ‘rabid lefties’, even though they were nothing of the sort. And it worked a treat. No matter who becomes the next labour leader, the Tories are going to carry on hammering this message home.

After all, they learned the technique from 5 years of constantly repeating the narrative that the recesssion/crash was all labours fault. Say it often enough and it becomes true. In the publics mind at least.

I reckon the Tories will have to biblically **** up for labour to be in with even a sniff at the next election

I think Labour need a very simple message.

Like (suitably worded):

We will undo all the oppression of the underclass and make the rich corporations pay their share of tax to fund it. We will end welfare for the wealthy. We will not go to war.

Simples. 🙂

and make the rich corporations pay their share of tax to fund it. We will end welfare for the wealthy.

This is really all it takes. There’s barely a person I speak to, tory or labour leaning who doesn’t agree with this. I’ve no doubt they would have won the last election if they’d found a way to communicate this and hammer the message home. But in their infinite wisdom they decided they’d rather talk about immigrants, chavs, and ‘balancing the books’.

They won’t win unless they make some comment regarding spending and budget control.

I look forward to the day when a new set of lenses are created that replace the increasingly irrelevant left and right wing.

Given the confused nature of politics and economics these days we really do need new terms of reference.

1. Many people like Corbyn not because they agree with everything he says but because he is a breath of fresh air in a sea of beige, identikit politicians.

Where have I heard that before?

Won’t someone think of the Hard Working Families ™

Corbyn not left enough for my liking…

Ah, a proper Champagne Socialist 🙂

loddrik – Member

Corbyn not left enough for my liking…

Jeremy Corbyn is certainly more left-wing than Derek Hatton.

“It’s been 27 years since I left Liverpool city council. Since then politics has changed, the world has changed and I’ve changed with it.” – millionaire property developer Derek Hatton.

I think you’ll notice that the above picture is not of today’s ‘millionaire property developer’ Derek Hatton, rather a mid 1980’s Militant Tendency Derek Hatton…

I know exactly what he is now. He used to live quite literally around the corner from me. Plus I’ve picked him up outside Goodison after the match and all he was talking about was playing golf in the Algarve!!

Thats a lot of potential voters. If only someone could give them something to vote for.

I think you’ll notice that the above picture is not of today’s ‘millionaire property developer’ Derek Hatton, rather a mid 1980’s Militant Tendency Derek Hatton…

I’m sorry you hadn’t made your very point clear. I now see that the point you were making is that ‘Corbyn is not left enough for your liking,’ when compared to a transient Trot of 30 years ago.

Well the truth is that very few of us were left-wing enough for transient Trots of 30 years ago.

Were you once a Trot loddrik ? And were you terribly left-wing and revolutionary ? 🙂

Thats a lot of potential voters.

Fascinating graph, an amazing increase in non voters in under 10 years (1992 to 2001). Also, we seem to have passed peak apathy which I didn’t realise…..

Now where’s that photo of Lynch’s alter-ego Fred Kite when you need it……. ‘All those fields of corn and opera in the evening’…..

Have you tried google images ?

Don’t be silly, central committee will have censored all those.

I see.

Very good.

Unfortunately not. Maybe you can post one up of him Ernest? 🙂

I was at two constituency hustings tonight the results we very clear a Corbyn and Watson landslide in both.

My Week- By Jeremy Corbyn*

Tuesday
Bit of a bruising interview on Channel 4 News last night. I shouldn’t have been surprised. Famous bastion of the hard right. Krishnan Guru-Murthy gave me a hard time for describing Hamas and Hezbollah as “my friends” and I rather lost my temper. Silly, really, but I was worried there was far worse to come out. Thank God they didn’t realise I’m also friends with Len McClusky.

ernie_lynch said » Have you tried google images ?
Don’t be silly, central committee will have censored all those.

Rubbish. Thanks to the recent privatisation, we are pleased to be able to announce a new more efficient Google images which is able to compete in a competitive marketplace. Of course, there is now a charge for each image viewed, this may or may not increase incrementally due to the need to provide increasingly absurd shareholder dividends. It is our aim that the less well off in society will no longer be able to benefit from the service within 5 years. At least, not if they also want to be able to feed their children.

You couldn’t make this stuff up. Nominate someone you don’t agree with then complain when the plan goes tits up.

Three Labour MPs who lent support to Mr Corbyn to get him on the ballot and broaden the leadership debate have told The Telegraph their decision has backfired. ………there is growing anger from those who put forward Mr Corbyn despite disagreeing with his politics about the way he has grown to dominate coverage of the race.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11742529/Jeremy-Corbyn-backers-abandon-ship-and-call-Labour-grandees-to-intervene.html

Just watching the sunday politics show, they have got all 4 candidates in a debate He’s the only one who looks like a leader imo. And i’m no leftie.

Interestingly The Guardian / Observer are pretty convinced that Corbyn will assign Labour to Oblivion for a good few decades if he wins…

If a leaked poll is any guide, then a growing number of the Labour party membership now seem to view Jeremy Corbyn as the answer to that drubbing. This is like a pupil who, on being told they answered incorrectly, repeats the same answer shouting ever more forcefully. It’s still the wrong answer. The party faces a choice. It can strive to get re-elected and thereby have an impact on those it purports to represent. Or it can sink in to a warm bath of delusion and face an even larger wipeout in 2020.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/19/observer-view-labour-leadership-election-jeremy-corbyn

Interestingly The Guardian / Observer are pretty convinced that ….

Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ? I can’t remember what their stance was back in May.

Certainly in May 2010 the Guardian was urging it’s readers to back Nick Clegg and his party, despite all the evidence that he was just another repackaged Tory. Even they would agree that was a monumental blunder.

So I wouldn’t pay too much notice to what the Guardian/Observer opinion is or what they are “pretty convinced” about.

Does the Guardian/Observer even support the Labour Party ?

Those publications are generally left leaning and socialist in their views….as the Labour party is supposedly too.

Without actually coming out and saying it i’d say they would align themselves more with Labour than the Tories.

I hope Corbyn wins, Labour could do with a traditional leftie leader….whether they get elected with him or not is largely irrelevant, it creates a genuine opposition and forms the basis for good polar opposite debates on ideological issues.