fifeandy – Member
best get a robot to do it then.

Exactly

If you can build, supply and service a robot to do that for £3.33 an hour do it, as you will make a fortune.

then Dave can get a more worthwhile job that also pays him £10 an hour.

Where from? We’ve just forced employers arms to streamline/automate – there’s less jobs available, we can’t just magic one up specially for Dave. And as for Andy who spent the last 15years shoving boxes into a compactor – well that’s not exactly a CV thats going to open many doors is it?

Where from? We’ve just forced employers arms to streamline/automate – there’s less jobs available, we can’t just magic one up specially for Dave.

you are talking rubbish tho

the minimum wage has doubled since it was introduced in 1998, unemployment is at a record low

Apparently, there are quite a few more of those foreign types here than when it was introduced, too.

Did I hear that right? Are there?

unemployment is at a record low

I’m pretty sure there a good number of minimum wage supporters in this thread that are the first people to say that unemployment is only at a record low because of abhorrent zero hour contracts.

I’m pretty sure there a good number of minimum wage supporters in this thread that are the first people to say that unemployment is only at a record low because of abhorrent zero hour contracts.

I think it is acknowledged that whilst employment is up satisfaction and confidence (in terms of job security) with those jobs is at a low – there was a piece on PM on Monday afternoon.

If you can build, supply and service a robot to do that for £3.33 an hour do it, as you will make a fortune.

The problem is that we’re not doing that because we can pay people a pittance to do it instead.

fifeandy – Member

His mate Jimmy has to work a little harder for his £10/hr.

£10 minimum wage will solve UKs productivity problems aswell! win win win win win win!

I have to say that the bearded one has won me over somewhat – he does seem to have a degree of, for a better word, dignity, about him given the amount of crap being constantly hurled in his direction by the fish eyed sociopath and her cronies which I find impressive.

What is not to aspire to in the Labour manifesto. The more I read and hear the Tories the more it seems they have taken their political/election strategy straight from the pages of Leviathan or Locke’s Two Treaties on Government i.e. first create a perceived problem in the state of nature and then the remedy. Perhaps ‘strong and stable’ to be replaced with ‘the life of man under a Corbyn Government will be, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short .

I listened to Hammond this morning and the best he could churn out was the ‘strong and stable’ and then the ‘living within our means’ – the point is (the Tories perceived problem) is their definition of ‘means’ – there is more ‘means’ about than the Tory perception of it.

As the guy on Question Time pointed out last week, at the end of WW2 gov’t debt was 200% of GDP but out of that came the welfare state and the NHS.

Living within our means is bullshit. Its idealogy that makes the Tories want to cut.

BTW Tories per year in govt borrow more than Labour! So they are shite at living within their means anyway.

why would I want to do that? i’d have to give it all away in tax 😉

I listened to Hammond this morning and the best he could churn out was the ‘strong and stable’ and then the ‘living within our means’

I think the penny is dropping that the tories have absolutely nothing to say other than “we’re not Corbyn”, and when people see Corbyn on the telly (probably for the first time), they realise that he’s not the devil that the Daily Mail and the The Scum make him out to be. Then they see Mummy basically running away and hiding from the public. There are even signs that the media are beginning to change their minds on him. In many respects this is turning into a repeat of his first leadership campaign.

I wonder if the minimum wage were suddenly increased, employers who couldn’t afford it would simply offer those employees fewer hours in the short term?

Works out to roughly a four day week or six hour days. It might not have that much of an affect on *some* jobs. And it might really help people with childcare arrangements and such.

I think the minimum wage is an important aspect of getting back to people being able to support themselves rather than having to rely on state support. I don’t think the ramifications have been thought through though. Companies will not redistribute salaries across the company and if they tried there’d be a mass exit of more skilled employees. Employers will reduce headcount and expect more from those left. Employers will be a lot more picky about who they employ for £10 an hour and they will have a decent pool of people to chose from. The minimum wage increase is not pushing up other incomes, we’ll just end up with more and more minimum wage jobs. People who get caught up in this who were previously above minimum wage are going to think why am I doing a more stressful job when I could be earning the same as someone woring in Tescos. I know it’s a topic of conversation in my wife’s office, a combination of small or zero pay rises mean the gap is closing quickly.

I think the minimum wage is an important aspect of getting back to people being able to support themselves rather than having to rely on state support.

its true with say the family tax credit and others we are in a situation where low paid workers are subsidised by us all so multi million pound employers can make even more profit-what do starbucks, amazon, sports direct etc pay their employees?

the problem is some companies could easily pay more [ at the cost of profits] and some – generally smaller ones – would be out of business. i think the best plan is to have a living wage and drift towards it over say a decade or so.

£10 minimum wage – that’s huge. It might cause trouble with employers, and it might spark inflation, but it’s better than doing nothing.

if its ‘by the end of our parliament’ then it represents 5% per year increase. That’s less than the average put out by the current parliament. Its one of those things that sounds good, but when the maths is unraveled its not massive..

The trouble is I don’t think they would pay more, it’s the same mindset around annual pay rises, no rise this year because the economy isn’t doing well, we’ve not hit our (unrealistic) profit target etc. Why companies think it acceptable to not maintain the value of employees wages is beyond me, I suppose it’s because they can. I wish they’d try it with their utility providers.

Also Starbucks may need to be on shore, many companies are desperate to off shore more manufacturing and this provides incentive to do it (ignoring the total cost of off shoring production is often higher overall).

I don’t have the answers but it could backfire fantastically, bit like encouraging gender equality in the workplace (which is fundamentally the right thing to do) which has led to both partners working which has fuelled the house price boom meaning the family still has the same fiscal standard of living without one of the team being able to devote quality time to parenting for example. Society and it’s problems are complex and simple solution often have intended consequences, I’m still in favour of a living wage, shrink the state, concentrate resources on supporting fewer people to a higher standard, but I don’t think it’s going to be a magic bullet that solves benefit dependency.

Companies will not redistribute salaries across the company and if they tried there’d be a mass exit of more skilled employees.

That depends on how many they employ at minimum wage and the balance of the above minimum wage salary. If could have little impact on the people above, maybe no pay rise for a year or two. Try explaining to them it is because they want to pay the lowest paid in the company a little bit more and all but the really selfish would be happy enough with that.

Employers will be a lot more picky about who they employ for £10 an hour and they will have a decent pool of people to chose from.

The pool of people will be the same, it is just the minimum you can pay has changed.

A lot of over thinking here, the minimum wage is not going from £8 to £50 is it…

encouraging gender equality in the workplace (which is fundamentally the right thing to do) which has led to both partners working

Eh? Why couldn’t the man stay at home and look after the kids?

Living within our means is bullshit. Its idealogy that makes the Tories want to cut.

Yes it’s the equivalent of your wealthy retired in laws lecturing you on how the pennies make the pounds.

It’s the biggest myth going.

I knew I’d get a comment like that, I never mentioned who could stay at home, the point is now neither have the opportunity as both incomes are needed to afford an average property, the price of an average property being the availability of cash through an increase in household income or unregulated and irresponsible lending, both of which have pushed house prices up to stupid levels.

In hindsight when gender equality in the workplace was being introduced gender equality in the home should have also been a priority so that there was a genuine option for roles to reversed, instead we ended up with both partners working which led to house price inflation. Too late to put the genie back in the bottle now, to an extent paternity rights are catching up but society is still pretty polarised on gender roles unfiortunately. Anyway that’s now irrelevant as many couples need both incomes to sustain the lifestyle they’ve come to expect.

Here’s an interesting fact about some countries you might assume had a very high minimum wages. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland do not have any minimum wage at all. Instead every industry is unionised and the collective agreements define what workers are paid.

Minimum wages are only necessary when the fundamentals of your economy are skewed against the workers. While fixing the imbalance should be the priority a minimum wage can be used as a sticking plaster.

Anyone else listen to Jeremy Vine?
Corbyn did very well I thought.

Another poll out today that shows Tory lead down by 5 points, Labour have increased by 10 points since the election was anounced. Not a bad achievement in itself. Certainly worth watching what happens.

Another poll out today that shows Tory lead down by 5 points

And that was before they revealed that their core supporters are going to have to spend their kids inheritances on profit-driven care homes. 🙂

Vine banging on about Trident even though Corbyn answered his question comprehensively, twice.
😐

Another poll out today that shows Tory lead down by 5 points, Labour have increased by 10 points since the election was anounced. Not a bad achievement in itself. Certainly worth watching what happens.

Calm it down on the positivity please.

I am starting to think that if the election was not until August we would see a very good shift.
Labour are coming across very well (not including Abbot!) and people are starting to see who they really are rather than just relying on 3rd hand biased crap. Whereas the Tories really don’t want you to know who they are.

Calm it down on the positivity please.

I don’t think anyone’s under any illusions, but it is very encouraging to see that Labour in pretty much every sense are running rings around the tories on the campaign front. Aside from the policies and manifestos, the general impression you get from the campaign is that Corbyn and Labour are out there taking on their critics and happy to talk to people, whereas May and the Tories are doing the opposite and complacently assuming that all they have to do is repeat soundbites and slag off Corbyn. Even the usual sycophants in the media look bored of it, and as a result labour are now getting a hearing.

Calm it down on the positivity please.

Yeah – still don’t think there’s time, unfortunately. But in many ways it wil be a shame if this increase in popular support doesn’t come to anything.

If only you could weight your vote by how keen you were. So 30% of voters who felt really really strongly could beat 50% of voters who weren’t overly bothered.

Well there is a little hope for Corbyn based on how badly the Lib Dems and Conservative manifestos have gone down. Amazing how incompetent all 3 parties are, embarrassing for them all and not a good omen for the UK whoever gets in.

dragon – Member
Well there is a little hope for Corbyn based on how badly the Lib Dems and Conservative manifestos have gone down. Amazing how incompetent all 3 parties are, embarrassing for them all and not a good omen for the UK whoever gets in.

agreed

what a shocking choice we have before us

my friends daughter was asked to do some corbyn art

selling well apparently- it was a request

can grime save corbs??

http://grmdaily.com/video/rants-n-bants-election-break-down

Excellent video.

🙂

Corbyn battle bus spotted:

Tory trolls are quiet today, wonder if that’s a coincidence given the papers today?

If only the labour party had got behind him from the beginning and made his attributes into a virtue rather than spend a year bashing him and feeding ammunition to the tory press.

I will never forgive them for what they have done. Hillary Benn, Andy Burnham and the rest of them.

I wouldn’t normally ‘lol’ but that’s made I laugh, that has. 🙂

If only the labour party had got behind him from the beginning and made his attributes into a virtue rather than spend a year bashing him and feeding ammunition to the tory press.

Agreed 100%.

Employers will reduce headcount

That argument has been touted about the Min Wage since day one, and – on the face of it at least – the exact opposite happened and continues to happen.

If I knew how i’d be tempted to put a tenner on May not being the next PM 😯