so there will be no second Referendum

Yup looks like the oldies really have got their wish to turn back the clock

Still we live in hope!

Read a rumour that Labour will support Proportional Representayion in their manifesto on May 15th

“We only lost the election because of the biased first past the post electoral system favours the Tories”
> You mean the one that saw Labour win three elections on the trot under Tony Blair?
“Erm…”

Apparently Andy Burnhams team let it be known that they wouldn’t be offended if he didn’t feel it necessary to pop over to Manchester while he was up north

Jez is celebrating with a little rally in Manchester.

Sadly, Andy is washing his hair and Jez forgot (ahem) to invite the sitting constituency Labour MP.

I’m seeing the words….. I’m seeing the words….. **** off back to Islington, you useless ****!

🙂

JC should remain a leader of the opposition because he stays true to his principles of not wanting to be poodle of EU bureaucrats.

Jeremy has always been true to his principles – trouble is that when he said he was a Marxist, they didn’t know he meant Groucho

“Yep, thought their more blatant anti-Brexit stance would reap dividends, but apparently not.”

There’s also another group of voters, of which I’m one. Remainers who feel the vote should be honoured. I’d never vote for a party that tried to overturn the referendum. When I voted in was in out was out.

Exactly my feelings. I think it’s bonkers leaving eu, but that’s how we voted.

Of course, I have a vested interest. When we finally vote yes to indendence, I’ll expect the same grace.

X3, voted remain, lost, fully expect leave to be honoured

I consider a 2pc spread inconclusive.

Couldn’t give a shit whether the result is “honoured” or not. I consider it an act of national self-harm. I’ll go with it, when it happens but if somehow it got overturned, I’d be delighted. As a family, I and my boy (and with a bit of wrangling, mrs DD) can all have Irish passports – so we have a few extra options when it comes to freedom of movement.

As for Jezza – he’s been busy massaging his marrow……at the allotment…..to make it grow

Metro mayors – accept that turnout has been, predictably, low but it’s the result that counts so….congrats to Andy Burnham (will be held accountable for what he does to address homelessness), Andy Street – hope he can use business experience to effect change in local politics, Ben Houchen – has he prepared for the possibility he could win?

So that’s the hors d’oeuvres done, now for the main course; Corbyn’s praetorian guard will not allow him to resign and May is doing a passable impersonation of Caligula – throwing some morsels to the populace while doing what she wants.

Interesting that in her presser on Wednesday she referred to the ‘continental’ media which, to me, is typical of the colonial approach; what about ‘european media’?

I voted remain and think that leaving the EU is like a sex maniac in a biscuit tin – f***ing crackers; democracy rules so we have a choice between……..
– labour whose leader is, evidently, nice and pleasant and polite – great personal attributes but not the ones I would wish to be dominant in negotiating an extremely complicated legislative, economic and political process
or
– the tories whose leader is petrified of engaging with the electorate, has no experience of complex international negotiations, who seems to believe that switching into dalek mode reinforces her message, who has not articulated a message other than ‘stable and strong’.

It’s like telling a man about to be killed – you choose, it’s either arsenic or cyanide.

If you asked 28 people, 27 would say we don’t care because you’re going to die and the remaining 1 would say…..help!

@dd – now, where’s my Irish citizenship application? Irish mother who was born in Eire so I’m a de facto Irish citizen but, just to formalise, I will be getting my Irish passport which then means my children will also share the same rights.

I will be getting my Irish passport which then means my children will also share the same rights.

Bugger, can’t quite remember…we did this all a while back. It’s worth checking the rules on passport.ie It may be you have to have them registered on the foreign births register. It’s not quite a straightforward as it once was – but their grandmother’s citizenship would entitle them anyway, whatever your status. The full rules are on the Irish government website – just not sure about their status as you didn’t have an Irish passport when they were born (if you see what I mean…).

I’m not sure who’s worse, the tories for torying or corbyn for being a neo tory by failing to oppose the tories.

The labour party stands for nothing at the moment, it’s just looking a bit confused whilst it dies.

corbyn for being a neo tory

Heard it all now.

@dd – have checked and it’s all good so they and I can share/enjoy all the benefits of Irish citizenship in the EU……as long as Eire remains a member.
Can’t see that changing given the huge benefits they have enjoyed in the pst 30+ years; peasant economy with zero infrastructure outside dublin transformed into developed economy with more benefits still to come.

I too am a remainer that is ‘resigned’ to the fact we voted and will now be leaving.

What I don’t accept though is that the terms of our leaving are now to be dictated by a single party, particularly one with a increased mandate because of an opportunistic election call. As was said on the news last night, 17 million voted to leave; a similar number voted to remain; 13 million didn’t register an opinion; and 14 million people below voting age but who will be deeply affected didn’t get a say.

To push through the wishes of the 17m and ignore the others completely is not acceptable, we need someone to keep the tories honest, and right now I don’t care who that is as long as someone does.

I do also wonder whether the mass migration of the UKIP vote to Tory will be repeated elsewhere. It was a quirk of the counties yesterday that many of the elections were in traditional shire counties, and I wonder whether in more working class areas the ‘labour went to UKIP over immigration’ voter will go back or will hold their noses long enough to vote tory to secure their wish. Because I suspect they’ll find that brexit then becomes the least of their worries.

Yep, thought their more blatant anti-Brexit stance would reap dividends, but apparently not.

My guess is that the feeble, irritating, hypocritical religious nut job that is Tim Farron had a lot to do with it. I vote Green now, but may consider Lib Dem in June from a purely tactical position.

I’m a remainer and I’m kinda resigned to leaving but not because it’s the ‘democratic will of the British people’ or any of that bollocks. We were never asked if we wanted a referendum (ha!) – if we decided everything with referendums we’d bring back hanging too.

Combine that with the outrageous lies told by the leave campaign, the vast swathes of propaganda that dominate our media, the Cambridge Analytica stuff, the Leave bot army on social media, and the closeness of the vote/numbers who didn’t vote – this is in no way ‘the will of the people’.

i think the problem here is that Farage said if he lost by this result he would not have given up

Remainers feel the same

Couple this with the fact the “promises” of the Leave campaign were gone immediately this leads to the feelign the result was conned

We then have a period for a PM seems hell bent on delivering a Hard Brexit when even the leave caipn were clear to argue that leaving would keep the “economic benefits” of trade.

Yes stay lost but nothing that leave promised to do [ other than the leave bit] will come to pass.
Then those who poitn this out are disloyal , doing britain down , traitors even. Its a long road to acceptance and a united country

I very much doubt May is the person to do this with her “strong and stable” leaderships

How she manages to spin this given she is holding an elections she said she would not to deliver a policy she said she opposed is a masterclass in how much influence the [rw printed]media has to spin BS

We were never asked if we wanted a referendum

It was a conservative manifesto commitment, as was abiding by the result.

this is in no way ‘the will of the people’.

Then the people will no doubt reject the government who have driven the process in the upcoming general election.

How she manages to spin this given she is holding an elections she said she would not to deliver a policy she said she opposed is a masterclass in how much influence the [rw printed]media has to spin BS

Or it’s a fantastic example of democracy in action, whereby the politicians are forced to change direction according to the democratic will of the people

Then the people will no doubt reject the government who have driven the process in the upcoming general election.

Oh good, are we having a referendum on which party we want in government – when is it?

June 8th – did you miss the announcement?

It is only June 8th if you are voting tory.

For Labour voters it is June 9th.

😉

My guess is that the feeble, irritating, hypocritical religious nut job that is Tim Farron had a lot to do with it.

Yep, I much prefer Nick Clegg, who is probably my favourite politician. However, the whole storm in a tea cup Uni Fees thing has put an end to his front line career.

There’s also another group of voters, of which I’m one. Remainers who feel the vote should be honoured. I’d never vote for a party that tried to overturn the referendum. When I voted in was in out was out.

I just don’t get that. If you think you or someone has made a mistake, what is wrong with changing it / trying to change their mind? The vote was a complete farse, most people voted for things which have nothing to do with the EU. It was also non binding right from the start, so ignoring it / having another vote down the line was never ruled out.

June 8th – did you miss the announcement?

That is the election, you were referring to people deciding something which is different i.e like a referendum.

I have no choice in what party is in government via the current system but would have via a referendum. See the difference?

“she is holding an elections she said she would not to deliver a policy she said she opposed”

True, but given the narrowness of the Referendum result and given she’s an ‘unelected’ PM it can only be a good thing to give people the chance to vote for a PM they prefer or a party that isn’t going to leave the EU.

June 8th gives people the opportunity to change everything, you can’t reasonably argue an election is the wrong thing to do as things stand.

“I just don’t get that.”

Me neither.

The vote went one way last year, if we have another one it might go a different way.

If the Lib Dems win on June 8th on a ‘don’t leave’ ticket we shouldn’t leave.

It’s not somehow immoral to want to ask the same question twice. (Although it may piss people off in a counter productive way after a while!)

its an odd argument as the one thing we can be sure is that if they had lost [ and narrowly] UKIP and all the other leavers would not now be happy remainers due to democracy- Farage said as much himself.

June 8th gives people the opportunity to change everything, you can’t reasonably argue an election is the wrong thing to do as things stand.

Apart from anything else you might reasonably argue that we should’t be holding another election while the current government is still being investigated by the police for election fraud.

Our local election-fraud-spotlight MP was out this morning in a part of his constituency associated with high levels of poverty, social depravation and reliance on benefits, 250m from the military dockyard hs government are stangling and 500m from the beatifully historic Royal Marines base his government is closing down and selling off to private developers. Tough crowd!! Probably pooping himself about losing his 500 vote majority, even TM made a super-secret visit the other day (seems standard for her ‘canvassing’…)

No need for expenses fiddling here though: I live in the neighbouring constituency, where our MP just has a bit of a rest for 6 weeks cos even Paul Nuttall coud get in if he stood for the right party.

“we should’t be holding another election while the current government is still being investigated by the police for election fraud.”

So all a government that didn’t want an election would have to do would be to commit a succession of frauds for decades and they’d never have to face an election until they were all dead or got fed up with being in power.

So all a government that didn’t want an election would have to do would be to commit a succession of frauds for decades and they’d never have to face an election until they were all dead or got fed up with being in power.

No.

“No.”

Why not.

@ninfan Goucho 🙂 🙂

If Labour’s job was simply to “oppose” the Government they would have all campaimed for Leave instead of just the Corbyn stealth non-effort

We have discussed the EU Rerendum and Labour’s stance post many times on here and one the 30,000 post thread.

@theotherjonv I’ll send you an email

The Manchester Rally was arranged by Momentum which explains the Burnham no-show and local MP not invited

Photobucket not working will post Momentum email later

Because its an idiotic interpretation of what he said and it makes no sense whatsoever to propose this or to suggest anyone wants it[ as you suggest not what Grum originally said to be clear]

He said: “we should’t be holding another election while the current government is still being investigated by the police for election fraud.”.

YouGov have some interesting analysis (on twitter) of how Labour voters defected to UKIP first and are now voting Tory. Also a significant number going direct Labour to Tory now.