The harsh reality is that the modern NHS costs way more to run than it used to.

Personally I think the higher earnings income tax should be increased to 45 or 50%. I would happily pay it.

Exactly. It is not the governments fault that people now live until 80 and need more health care but it is a governments responsibility to address it.
The money needs to come from somewhere and taking from people who earn at least 4 times minimum wage and least 2 times average wage is fair enough.

Didnt Vodaphone avoid corporate tax to the tune of the entire welfare bill?

@ulysee that’s a campaigners fantasy number so fhe answer is no. If it was the reality the Tories or 13 years of Blair and Brown woukd have done something about it. I once agin make my same point that STWer are happy to complain about tax avoidance but fall over themselves to use Amazon, Facebook, ebay, online bike sellers etc etc who’s very business model is constructed to be a huge tax dodge.

Let’s approach this another way.

Instead of name calling, playing the man (Tories) instead of the ball (issues) let those who think there should be another way cone up with a written proposal of what they want to do and a fully costed plan of how it’s going to be paid for. Then that can be put to the population for a vote.

We shall call this document The Labour Party Manifesto and the vote a General Election.

Briefly back on topic, if I may…

Jezza’s just launched his 20 point plan!

With 18 points.

*facepalm*

But Blair / Brown Nu Labour were Neoliberals, they supported the casino economics… Why would they clamp down on what they support?
And yeah, ill use some of the less odious of the tax dodgers listed , but not for any financial reasons, ill boycott mainly over worker rights.
So yeah, while there ill take advantage of some, but its no biggie if a tax hike is seen at the price for the end user

jambalaya – Member
Let’s approach this another way.
Instead of name calling, playing the man (Tories) instead of the ball (issues)

This whole thread has mostly been about name calling and playing the man.

It’s a bit off to apply double standards this late in the game, especially when it’s specific policies being debated.

Personally I think the higher earnings income tax should be increased to 45 or 50%. I would happily pay it.

That’s sort of the French and German tax bands. They also have VAT on food, full rate VAT on chikdten’s clothes and utilities.

Yup DrJ I would support tax increases accross the board. I supported the increase in VAT from 17.5% to 20%

Note a 1% hike in VAT raises £4bn (assumiing there is no megative impact on sales). Eqch year the NHS needs about £6bn just to stand still sonwe coukd put VAT up 1.5% piints pa to oay for that (eg from 20 to 21.5 or from 20 to 27.5 over a parliament) ….. now you see where I am going. Making the numbers work is the tricky part

If Flashy actually posted a source for this, it would make it much less of a story. Even from the Torygraph.

Considering the headstart they had, I am curious about where on earth the Conservative plan is.

Perhaps before Marr had the temerity to rise above his station and challenge TM on her apparent strategy of “what she remembered from failing a basic 1/2 day course in NLP”, it seemed like a good idea and then our strong and stable leader looked like someone losing at parlour games, so they binned it.
‘Strong & stable’ and “this is one tax I promise not to meddle with, but consider my silence on the others to be a firm committment to raise other ones. Especially for poor people and working families” maketh not a manifesto. 😕

How about, Jamba, we actually look at the record of the Tory and coalition governments, and judge accordingly?
Casino capitalism, Privatising profit and socialising risk, selling off national assets to friends family and doners,vast transferance of public monies in to private pockets, welfare reforms that kill while costing extra billions to implement, failed IT for the last point costing millions, housing policy thats failing miserably, mass homelessness, food banks, food poverty, criminalising squatting further causing deaths

I could go on all night, but i dont need to, you make it abundantly clear that this a cost worth paying and you support it wholeheartedly.

I used to regularly rip new Labour a new arsehole, But this? it isnt even velvet fascism, its downright evil personified, its brought out the worst among us.

But its also brought out the best among us, to try and oppose you

Let’s hope counting isn’t important when selling paper clips

Yup DrJ I would support tax increases accross the board. I supported the increase in VAT from 17.5% to 20%

Haha – too funny – so your “tax increase across the board” is the one that penalises the poor most. Why does that not surprise me?

Yup DrJ I would support tax increases accross the board. I supported the increase in VAT from 17.5% to 20%

Would you support an increase to the upper tax rate to 50% to pay for the NHS?

Didnt Vodaphone avoid corporate tax to the tune of the entire welfare bill?

No, it was more #leftiebollox

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/12/02/uk-uncut-vodafone-and-the-6-billion-tax-bill-that-never-was/#3f7c18334f6b

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/02/18/once_more_into_the_tax_breach_dear_friends/

My point being in that flippant post, if such tax avoidence chicanery as outlined in your links were to be brought under a semblance of control, the taxation from all multinationals operating in and profiting from the UK would be rather significant, reducing reliance on the magic money tree

No, it was more #leftiebollox

Two opinion pieces by the same right-wing blogger – well that’s compelling evidence. 🙄

Troll, troll, trollolol…..

A simple YES / NO question to the Right wingers, are the 61 DWP investigated deaths a price worth paying?
Are 500000 homeless children a price worth paying?

ninfan – Member

No, it was more #leftiebollox

Oh, HMRC are lefties?

I thought HMRC was sold off to some American corporation…

So good that ninfan found two opinion pieces by him. (was there really no one else? 🙁 )

Tim Worstall:

one of the global experts on the metal scandium,

Should fit right in here about 10 years ago.

I’ve also ghosted pieces for several UK politicians in many of the UK papers, including the Daily Sport.

….Actually, Ninfan are you Tim Worstall? I always imagined you were youger.

VAT is indeed regressive, but haven’t the Conservatives committed not to raise it, whilst staying noticeably quiet on income tax and pensions commitments? And don’t lower earners pay rather less of that than they used to due to the threshold moving up? I’m all for holding the govt to account on its record, but credit where it’s due and all that!

7 years of income stagnation?

Yes, it would be nice if multinationals paid all of their taxes. If it was easy, wouldn’t everyone have done it by now? Likewise, if you can just run up as much debt as you want with no consequence, wouldn’t everyone be doing it?

Income stagnation is not unique to us either (speaking as a public sector worker!)

in many of the UK papers, including the Daily Sport.

You’re taking the piss now?

Nobody would ever describe the Daily Sport as a paper. It was a softcore grot mag. Nothing else.

Again, regarding proper taxation of multinationals I’ll point to the post earlier, regardless of name, we have had since 1979 an ideology of neoliberalism, casino economics.

I’ll also just leave this here… [video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WEGX4szvetw[/video]

“Yes, it would be nice if multinationals paid all of their taxes. If it was easy, wouldn’t everyone have done it by now? Likewise, if you can just run up as much debt as you want with no consequence, wouldn’t everyone be doing it?”

This.

Some good jobs in those multinationals for people who have had experience in front line politics.

Some good jobs in those multinationals for people who have had experience in front line politics.

Yup. But many PMs have sever multiple terms So all of them would have been far better off significantly increasing tax revenue.

Plus the detail of these rules are worked out by Civil Servants – who are often in for life.

Yet after decades there are still tax loopholes (if you accept the term loop hole – many just cal it “the rules”). The idea that this is a simple problem and corruption has prevented it being solved seems ludicrous to me. Maybe you can provide a reliable source so I can read up on it for myself.

Tory lies fuelling a 113% rise in dasibility hate crime

Strong and stable opposition, dont believe the lies that Corbyn is weak an ineffectual
All this, while the Progress movement in his own party had knives in his back.


Does that smack ineffectual weakness?

And even more deaths at the hand of the Tory party and those who elect them

The Government’s controversial cap on benefits is failing to encourage more people into work and forcing pregnant women to consider terminating their pregnancy, according to evidence published by the Work and Pensions Committee.

Tory benefit cap forcing women to consider terminating pregnancies

ulysse – Member
Strong and stable opposition, dont believe the lies that Corbyn is weak an ineffectual
All this, while the Progress movement in his own party had knives in his back.

for balance Labour can’t force the government to u turn or climb down on anything as they have a majority.

Agreed, it was applied pressure not only from the opposition benches, but activists petitioners and public opinion.

But put that alongside Millibands record in opposition, the Conservatives got away with murder.

“Yes, it would be nice if multinationals paid all of their taxes. If it was easy, wouldn’t everyone have done it by now? Likewise, if you can just run up as much debt as you want with no consequence, wouldn’t everyone be doing it?”

Isn’t one of the major issues that HMRC don’t have sufficient expertise and free capacity to tackle the task of re-writing the rules, so the bring in external consulants to advise and do it. These are the same consultants who know the rules better then the HMRC and then sell their services advising multi-nationals on how to utilise loop holes. It is a huge conflict of interest but they don’t seem to be able to resolve it and their is a huge revolving door of emlpoyees and secondees between the public and private sector that hinders resolving the issue.

Our tax code is not fit for purpose, it’s decades behind. Not just us really US has the same problem for example. The internet businesses amd GIG economy are taking the p1ss at a whole new level. The Tories have a consulation going as its quite clear more and more people are quitting paye and going “self employed” – this reduces their tax bill significantly.

We need a wholesale rethink

In other news I see Labour rolled out their big gun today to take the pressure off of Corbyn 🙂

The Diane made Jezza look positively polished

Agreed regarding tax needing a shakeup, possibly an element of land value taxation?