well they love Israel and he is highly critical so its not really that much of a surprise is it

WHat next 96% of “trots” in labour support Corbyn – its that level of “news”

its a poor argument
The argument that because a minority – few MPS have an absolute majority- voted for you then they agreed with every single part of the parties manifesto is flawed and deeply so- not even the MOS agreed with every single thing in it so what change that all voters did?

I’d hold that until an election, MPs can hold the line of the manifesto of their election on contentious issues. What is MOS?

The wider debate about whether the MPs serve the constituency or represent the party is interesting as they clearly have to do a bit of both…
However if you are in a party and you cannot follow the wishes if the membership re leader then you are really in the wrong party and you need to leave it…you cannot just go i dont represent you i represent the people – if that is the case then become an independent MP and get elected on that mandate.

Sometimes! As an MP through the Blair years Corbyn disagreed with much of what was said and done. Should he have then left? I think not – a party is greater than the ideals and actions of any given leader and MPs can (and should) hold positions from throughout the party’s range. As different leaders come and go, any given MP’s ideals will seem more or less in tune with those of the party. This is fine as long as their is a broad consensus amongst the majority of the parliamentary party in line with the parliamentary leadership and the perceived position of the broader party membership.

That is not the situation in the Labour Party at present. Its political centre of mass has changed very quickly due (at least in significant part) to an influx of new members whose ideals are not popular with the majority of the party’s MPs (whose ideals were in line with those of previous leaders!). Backbench Corbyn and any allies he may have had were harmless, numerically insignificant outliers in the Blair years and so could be left alone. It does not seem feasible that Leader Corbyn can allow so many of his own MPs to be outliers to his own reign (and to the position of the newly invigorated party!) which is why we have all the talk of splits and deselections. Its a mess!

Four percent.

Yes indeed. 5th I pointed this out a few pages ago, 92% of JLM are for Smith. 92! This resulted in @clod (our STW member or should I say login ?, of 5 months) trying to discredit the whole movement as “Zionist extremists”. He seems rather blind to fhe fact fhat the JLM is the main organisation afaik within Labour representing Jewish views and those views are pretty clear about who they do not want to see as leader.

Did either of the candidates have anything to say about Chaudray’s conviction ?

Richard Burgon Leads Attack On Mail On Sunday Piece Calling Corbyn Fans ‘Nazi’

Jewish Voice, a campaign group that describes itself as the “voice of Socialism and progressive Jewish values” went further, calling on Labour’s governing body to suspend Foster and conduct an investigation into his membership.

They derided the article as “inflammatory”, “dangerous” and said Foster was “invoking the most horrific period in modern history to score political points”.

In a letter to Labour’s general secretary, the Jewish Voice team wrote: “The Jewish community is understandably emotionally reactive to reference to Nazi. Mr Foster knows this very well and cynically used that fact to promote more division.”[/b]

Jeremy Corbyn says Isis should be brought ’round the table’ for Syria peace talks

Thats a real Donald Trump moment from Smith right there! I thought Smith was more “Statesmanlike” and that was one of the arguments of the PLP?

Liked a few of Corbyn’s answers in the debate. His answers in general just had a bit more depth. For instance on mental health both trotted out more money obvs but Corbyn went further with talking about the causes of mental health issues (in young men).

Corbyn quickly and happily named three achievement s of Blair when asked to. And didn’t know who Ant and Dec are! Yay!

Owen Smith nodded and agreed with J.C quite a lot and claimed the pip victory over the Tories as his alone.

Re the Isis thing with Owen Smith, the way the conversation went I think he thought he was agreeing with Corbyn – safe thing to do as he sees it.

Good. This is not a bad thing.

He seems rather blind to fhe fact fhat the JLM is the main organisation afaik within Labour representing Jewish views and those views are pretty clear about who they do not want to see as leader.

Rather blind to a fact you are not even certain about – I do so like your posts 😆
As the JLM give unquestioning support to Israel its really no wonder they dont support a man who wont TOTALLY support a racist land grabbing, collective punishing, illegal settling, nuke making, politically assassinating state. I do so wonder how you would view Israel if we could just make it muslim overnight and the palestinians became the Jews. I am sure those Muslims would have your unwavering support just as the Jews do as clearly you are principled individual and not in any way making a decision based on the religion/race of the participants

a man who wont TOTALLY support a racist land grabbing, collective punishing, illegal settling, nuke making, politically assassinating state.

Wow, sorry, I thought you were suggesting that Jeremy and Seamus’s had dropped their support for Russia then…

But then I remembered that Lefties only criticise any of these things when its either America, Britain or the Joos doing it

“Yeah, but at least I’ve the self-awareness to know I’m a ****ing idiot comrade!”

I think we’ve all got enough awareness to know that about you. 😉

This entire thread was started as a vehicle to bash Jeremy Corbyn. It’s no use ranting on about ‘trots’ and ‘commies’ and calling people ‘comrade’, not to mention doing pictures mocking Ernie Lynch, then complaining because ‘the nasty man called people scum’. I’m quite prepared to discuss things on a more adult level, in fact, I’ve asked you a number of questions, all of which you’ve failed to answer. Which leads me to conclude you aren’t actually capable of engaging in sensible, rational debate, and can only vent your spleen using your keyboard. Maybe when you’ve graduated from kindergarten, and gone to big school, we can have a discussion. Until then, keep blowing out all that hot air that’s building up inside you.

Re Owen Jones; he may have said he was ‘renting’, but I have it on very good authority he’s a property owner, in Stoke Newington. 😉 As for his hypocrisy; he berates the rich for avoiding paying taxes, yet works for an organisation that uses off-shore banking to do exactly the same:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/will-the-guardian-now-investigate-its-own-tax-arrangements/

I’ve seen Owen Jones speak a number of times. He’s very eloquent, and passionate. But he doesn’t really appear to do very much other than talk and type. Several old Labour stalwarts I know compare him to a young Tony Blair; full of energy, but there’s something quite unsettling about him. Don’t be surprised if he starts supporting Owen Smith quite soon. Alas, Owens Smith and Jones…

Let me get back to you all about Jamba’s comments.

I’ve seen Owen Jones speak a number of times. He’s very eloquent, and passionate. But he doesn’t really appear to do very much other than talk and type.

That is his job. Would you rather he lobbed bricks through the windows of traitorous scum?

“Yes indeed. 5th I pointed this out a few pages ago, 92% of JLM are for Smith. 92! This resulted in @clod (our STW member or should I say login ?, of 5 months) trying to discredit the whole movement as “Zionist extremists”. He seems rather blind to fhe fact fhat the JLM is the main organisation afaik within Labour representing Jewish views and those views are pretty clear about who they do not want to see as leader.”

Where do we even begin with this? First of all, to claim I labelled the JLM as ‘Zionist extremists’ is an outright lie. Not even a misinterpretation of facts, but a downright deliberate untruth. What next, are you going to call me an anti-Semite? Ffs. Trouble is Jamba; everyone else can see that you’ve actually lied about me on here now. Most of us have been kind enough to dismiss your crap as ‘misinterpretation’, or very deluded bias, but now you’ve gone and openly lied about me, I no longer feel I need to extend you such courtesy. Another who simply cannot answer a reasonable question put to them, instead choosing to be utterly disrespectful to others. I could get angry with you Jamba; instead, I just feel sorry for you. Pathetic.

A kinder, gentler politics, from those nice Momentum people:

But then I remembered that Lefties only criticise any of these things when its either America, Britain or the Joos doing it

😆

My favourite sweeping statement of the hour.

I’m not normally disgusted but that Simon Weston comment is horrific. How can Momentum and Corbyn still be involved with someone who posts that, he should be drop kicked as far as they can.

But then I remembered that Lefties only criticise any of these things when its either America, Britain or the Joos doing it

That is one of your poorest scribbles ever. You feeling ok as that is lame by your usual goads.
I am also pretty sure Putin will be a little to the right of the spectrum as well… stop thinking left of you actually means left will you.

cranberry
Its pretty pointless to scour the internet to find things you want to find – anf then use a quote from someone not in momentum that was posted before corbyn won and before momentum was formed and claim its evidence of momentum. Frankly its a bit desperate

I am sure i will find a Tory being a meany if a scour twitter over the last year Its a bit pointless though all sides have arseholes we all know this and i am not as in to confirmation bias as you are

That comment is indefensible and a disgrace to say to someone who is a war hero and done great things after his own personal tragedy. Its a horrible horrible statement and no defence can be offered and none is by me to e very very clear

Who the heck is Richard Seymour?

Here is a picture for you to look at whilst you compose more whatabouttery and do more dissembling to cover for the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is happy to stand alongside a man who said:

About a brave man who lost 22 of his platoon out of 30 in a horrific fire and has since dedicated his time to charity.

Just Googled Richard Seymour, utterly despicable individual.

cranberry – I’m old and well remember the Falklands, Simon Weston was and still is an extraordinary man. I sincerely hope he doesn’t read RS’s bilge.

Richard Seymours horrible comment was made on 2nd September 2015.

Here is a picture for you to look at whilst you compose more whatabouttery and do more dissembling to cover for the fact that Jeremy Corbyn is happy to stand alongside a man who said:

Are you after Jambys not interested in the facts cup or some such?

My whatabouterry was to
1. Point out the post came from a time before momentum existed
2. Point out he was not in momentum

Both of these are clearly highly relevant if you want to use it as method to lambast momentum.

If you want to shoot the messenger because of the complete lack of logic or sense in your argument then that is your choice but you look like a moron deliberately disinterested in the facts

Jeremy Corbyn is happy to stand alongside a man who said:

Aye it will be so hard to find a picture of politician on a stage with someone who said something horrible about someone somewhere.
Confirmation bias with a massive dollop of illogical pish

Would you like me to repeat my view on the comment seeing as you seemed to be so insistent on faux outrage you glossed over it ? perhaps you can you only see and read things that fit in with your perceptions?

Just when you thought this debate could not get any worse

SLow hand clap- My lord this is nonsense

the comment was despicable it had **** all to do with momentum handle the facts as you see fit 🙄

clodhopper – Member

Where do we even begin with this? First of all, to claim I labelled the JLM as ‘Zionist extremists’ is an outright lie. Not even a misinterpretation of facts, but a downright deliberate untruth. What next, are you going to call me an anti-Semite? Ffs. Trouble is Jamba; everyone else can see that you’ve actually lied about me on here now. Most of us have been kind enough to dismiss your crap as ‘misinterpretation’, or very deluded bias, but now you’ve gone and openly lied about me, I no longer feel I need to extend you such courtesy. Another who simply cannot answer a reasonable question put to them, instead choosing to be utterly disrespectful to others. I could get angry with you Jamba; instead, I just feel sorry for you. Pathetic.

Welcome to Team Over It.

He’s a speaker at the Momentum conference in September that Corbyn is also spreaking at and personally approved the line up.

@clod I have to say I am amused with this user id turning up out of the blue 5 months ago and getting stuck in. When I posted the fact that 92% of the JLM supported Smith and just 4% Corbyn and your responce was to try and discredit the whole organisation. Why is that I wonder ?

This thead wasn’t started to bash Corbyn, there are many of us here who thought things would map out pretty much exactiy as they have, if anything its been even more of a shambles. No one needed to bash him as we knew the just buggar it up on his own. The whole Corbyn thing I personally thought was a bit of a laugh. Sadly the abuse and personal attacks, the machieveliian manouvering and the whole anti-semitic issue is very serious aside collectively overall from being increasingly terminal for Labour.

Sadly the abuse and personal attacks

Oh the irony how many ways have you insulted him on this thread?

Thank god he does not speak of jews the way you speak of muslims but dont let this stop you hurling the racism accusation to anyone who does not blindly support Israel in the unswerving and uncritical manner you do

I was having dinner a few miles away from the hustings tonight – what a missed opportunity!!!

going back to Own and saying there would have to be talks with ISIS – of course there will. the only way to stop anything like this is a political solution. Never in the world has there ever been a military solution only to conflicts like this.

going back to Own and saying there would have to be talks with ISIS – of course there will. the only way to stop anything like this is a political solution. Never in the world has there ever been a military solution only to conflicts like this.

Would the release of slaves be a prerequisite? How about the genocide and ethnic cleansing?

sadly the abuse and personal attacks, the machieveliian manouvering and the whole anti-semitic issue is very serious aside

you’re off yer **** tits mate!! 🙂

Corbyn has refused to confirm that Britain would honour its NATO commitments and aid a member under attack, he would prefer world peace instead. Clueless.

Aye, that’s exactly what happened. He responded to the question about NATO:

“I would want to avoid us getting involved military, by building up democratic relationships. I don’t wish to go to war – what I want to do is achieve a world where we don’t need to go to war.”

That’s not “refusing to confirm” anything- it’s providing a better alternative. Hands up everyone who doesn’t think that stronger democratic relationships and avoiding the need for war, is better than getting in a war with Russia? Hands up everyone who wants a prime minister who responds “Hell yes! Square go, Putin, outside now” instead of “Our job is to prevent that.”

I find his lack of enthusiasm for world war 3 and setting a billion people on fire as disturbing as the next man.

he would prefer world peace instead. Clueless.

I **** hate those folk who prefer world peace to world war three clearly dangerous and not be trusted

FFS the reasons to hate Corbyn go from the ludicrous to the **** ludicrous to this

I wonder why the JLM don’t support JC…Could it be because he has dared to speak out against the actions of the Israeli state? That obviously makes him an anti-Semite as well; True Jambafact….

Hands up everyone who doesn’t think that stronger democratic relationships and avoiding the need for war, is better than getting in a war with Russia?

Maybe you could explain to me what Ukraine did wrong? What democratic ties or structures were they missing that would have prevented Russian troops rolling over the border?

Good point ninfan, it was a missed opportunity to go to war with Russia. And it would have been a proper war with tanks and planes and ships and things. With nuclear weapons to add an edge-of-your-seat level of excitement.

Its definitely corbyns – lets just gloss over how many years before the events occurred he came to “power” as the opposition leader as we are not actually being rational- and lefties fault that no one in Nato did this and , and lets be honest here, his and our influence over NATO and the US foreign policy is immense and we really do call the shots

This entire thread was started as a vehicle to bash Jeremy Corbyn.

Loving the paranoia. Were you sent personally to make a stand against all these naysayers? I wonder what other internet forums the vanguard have infiltrated?

Clod, in the spirit of sensible debate, here’s some questions for you. Do you believe JC actually wants to be PM? Is this battle Momentum are fighting purely about him or about policy? If the latter, who is there to take up reigns of the left in the event of JC returning to his allotment?

From where I’m standing, he wants nothing of the sort, and never did. This is plain to anyone who takes a vague interest in his career and the events which lead to him becoming leader. Some of us were happy that he offered the opportunity to re-align labour in a more leftwards and democratic direction, which appears to have been successful, although not fully rooted. But now, thanks largely to the incompetent machinations of the PLP, but also the paranoid delusions of Momemtum et al, his leadership has become more about him, rather than the policies. So now the labour party finds itself tearing itself apart over a leader who never wanted the position, who isn’t prepared to accept the conditions of the job, and who lets face it, isn’t very good at it. This seems like a stupid position to me and anyone else who is capable of actually thinking about it rather than just falling back on dogmatic positions.