i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Have you watched it? its an interview with a woman who is labour through and through, on Channel 4 news, who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she’s been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Thats hardly an editorial in the Sun, is it?

I’ll ask the Corbyn supporters again though:

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency? Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80’s, is going to be a vote winner?

” who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation “

😆

You really are fantastic value for money, Binners.

So she was just faking the tears in a cynical strategic ploy to discredit JC and Momentum?

She’s very good at it, right up there with Gwynnie.

who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she’s been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

I think I’ll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing. The slow, messy death of the labour party appears to have been reduced to two bald blokes fighting over a comb. But one of them is getting a bit lairy and is off home to take it out on the wife. 😥

It was a good performance. 😕

“But one of them is getting a bit fighty and is off home to take it out on the wife.”

Ah come on Binners; your wife doesn’t deserve that. 🙁

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate

It looks terrible obviously. But so does spending a year undermining and plotting against an elected leader with a massive incontestable mandate, and then attempting to depose him through underhand procedural means to deny the party the opportunity of electing him again. This thing goes both ways, but of course the media only presents one side of it. To quote a cliche, ‘Live by the sword, die by the sword’.

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency?

I assume they are buying the BS the RW press is pedalling Corbyn and his supporters are left wing agitators who don’t obey the law and will bully the PLP into erm respecting the democratic wishes of the party they represent

Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80’s, is going to be a vote winner?

Jesus like a DM headline writer now
I think we need to ask very leading questions using tired memes from the 80’s and then out up a picture of Lenin.

Neither the Momentum response nor the PLP cause – IGNORING the wishes of members- is a vote winner nor an edifying sight
I will ask again why are you only focusing on one side and not the other? Why is it ok for the PLP to ignore the party?

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

It doesn’t excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.arguably a contributor to the Brexit vote

And i think Corbyn should be on the ballot, and amusingly i have a vote as well,

It doesn’t excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

You think the PLP has not done this to corbyn?

You think he is not getting threats from PLP view supporters?
As for violent acts have there been any ? there has just been threats hasn’t there and I imagine at an equal level on all sides

Not defending it but nor am I being myopically one sided either.

Is there any concrete evidence the ‘intimidation’ ( 😆 ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it’s just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let’s face it.

“I think I’ll bow out of this thread.”

No come on Binners; it needs the comedy element to keep it going.

This really has become an existential battle now. The terms put on the membership for eligibility to vote by the NEC are shocking and the manner of their formulation worse. I think Corbyn will end up leading a aprty of the left with a liberal, centrist party coming from the PLP and the remainder of the lib dems and maybe even a few softer, pro europe tories. might make a coalition a possibility in 2020.

You think the PLP has not done this to corbyn?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don’t count

Is there any concrete evidence the ‘intimidation’ ( ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it’s just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let’s face it.

Are you a journalist for the Morning Star?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don’t count

FFS this debate is shit its just folk adhering to their own biases and not bothering with facts or debate

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.

As does ignoring the democratic choice of labour party members in favour of an elite who time and again have demonstrated that they hold their own personal career interests and those of their supporters above the wishes of party members and voters.

I think what’s clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party’s electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it’s conclusion. I don’t know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

Some analysis by people who aren’t drunk blokes in a pub:

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/pdf/JeremyCorbyn/Cobyn-Report-FINAL.pdf

in favour of an elite

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life? These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP. Compare that to the membership which has plenty of Jonny come lately £3 types who have never had to work within the Labour party or contribute to it.

FFS this debate is shit its just folk adhering to their own biases and not bothering with facts or debate

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality 😉

McDonnell has too many skeletons in the cupboard to lead Labour so JC has to stay or the whole “project” collapses. Lisa Nandy the heir apparent is clearly not ready.

I think what’s clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party’s electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it’s conclusion. I don’t know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

PR hurts labour, currently less votes gets them more seats the the conservatives

How many years in the wilderness do you expect? No wonder the PLP are fighting this

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Are you serious?

These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP.

Apart from the candidates who were parachuted in to constituencies by Blair and Brown straight from their favourite think tanks and PPE university courses. Funny also how most of these like the Milibands, Balls, Cooper, Burnham et al made it straight to the front bench without ‘working their way up’, and then wondered why the party’s base support abandoned them for the likes of UKIP and elected Corbyn as leader with a massive majority.

PR hurts labour,

In it’s current form as a ‘big-tent’ coalition between left and right, but in a scenario where they split, and in coalition with the greens, lib dems and SNP, it’s a much better option.

“I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality”

Yeah, you know those people who laugh at their own jokes?

Gary Younge

Good piece in the guardian: “Corbyn’s critics are hellbent on destroying the party they claim to love”

I think I’ll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing.

Have you not played with the posse before, binns?? 😉

Bloody biased media are hardly mentioning poor old Jezza today….

I’ve had my criticisms of Corbyn, but what about the electrifying way he’s led the charge against May’s joke new shadow cabinet. It’s a morale boost in these dark days the way Corbyn’s cut the ground from under ex-goth Hammond’s unexpected post in HMT, drawing laughs from Ozzy the iron chancellor’s precipitate defenestration. And the way he’s questioned the erm wisdom of May’s appointment of the Brexit top team of Fox, Davis and the beyond satire Johnson, yeah, they’ll work well together to get the best deal…

Either that or he’s just been quiet.

Meanwhile, in Angela Eagles own constituency:

“We feel hugely let down by Angela” – Wallasey constituents tell Lewis Goodall why they are unhappy about their MP Angela Eagle's leadership bid.

Posted by BBC Newsnight on Wednesday, July 13, 2016

I’d say she’s pretty much secured her own deselection as parliamentary candidate at any future election there.

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

Now we find out that having grudgingly accepted Corbyn onto the ballot, the NEC is busy gerrymandering to get someone else to win. What are they so afraid of? That the membership realises the candidates are useless?

johnx2 – Member
…Either that or he’s just been quiet.

Why wouldn’t he be?

St Theresa is doing his work for him.

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

…into what until then had always been a Tory seat, which she won for Labour and which since then has turned into a safe Labour seat. Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I’d say she’s showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there’ll be some momentumesque explanation that she’s sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons… Hey ho.

ohnx2 – Member
Either that or he’s just been quiet.

Or maybe he’s busy preparing a completely un-necessary leadership campaign.

johnx2 – Member
Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I’d say she’s showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there’ll be some momentumesque explanation that she’s sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons… Hey ho.

If she doesn’t believe she can win and is putting her self up as some sacrificial lamb, she’s being destructive in the extreme.

nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we’ve Tories forever.

The thing is I’d not mind Corbyn not looking electable if he was being effective in opposition and holding the government to account. But at the moment he neither appears electable, and this is increasingly worsening as he fails to control the plp, nor is he a credible opposition leader as he’s failing to put down government proposals or provide counter policies effectively (which may or may not be his fault but that’s kind of irrelevant). If he can’t do either what is his purpose?

And whilst I’m not sure Eagle will be much better she can’t be any worse.

johnx2 – Member
nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we’ve Tories forever.

Aye, cause a new leader will solve labours woes.

Priority is to split the party and hurry the **** up about it.

being effective in opposition

I keep reading this and I”ve really no idea what it means. Seems to me most people think it’s getting a few digs in at PMQs or appearing on Question Time and the 6pm news.

And whilst I’m not sure Eagle will be much better she can’t be any worse.

So you’re happy for the labour party to risk self-destruction for a wild gamble on someone who is at least as uninspiring as him, and judging by recent efforts, even more clumsy with the media and much thinner on policy and ideas. It would appear brexit logic has now been applied to choosing labour leaders.

…into what until then had always been a Tory seat, which she won for Labour and which since then has turned into a safe Labour seat.

Labour lost in 1987 by fewer than 300 votes, this was despite a national landslide for the Tories. Given the national swing to Labour in 1992, Eagle would’ve had to work extremely hard to lose it.

It means making it difficult to implement policies that you disagree with, that can be through being challenging in the house (which he’s not managing), or pushing the alternative discussion in the media (which he’s not managing) or pointing out the issues and coming up with a counter policy that is persuasive enough that you engage the opposition enough to change their vote (and at the moment he’s barely communicating policy to members let alone anyone else).

Labour is self destructing anyway, retaining Corbyn isn’t going to stop that. By his own supporters admission he can’t get the media to successfully represent his views there is therefore very little to be gained other than a warm sense of moral superiority to be gained by remaining in that position.

I don’t know why the angle is that Corbyn is unelectable.

The Blairite Red Tory methodology no longer works. It depends on perception control, and that works as long as you have control of the flow of information and opinion, ie enough grip of the MSM to ensure your message is getting pumped out.

But with the growth of social media, and it’s no longer limited to the young or early adopters, then the message can no longer be exclusively controlled. Fact checking is now easy, so a politician who is claiming to support some policy but votes against it, is quickly found out.

It is the Blairites who are the dinosaurs here, because instead of recognising this and changing their game they are chucking a massive hissy fit and displaying contempt towards what they obviously regard as a dumb underclass, ie the ordinary party members.

That dumb underclass now has other sources of information and can spot gross lies and deceit much easier.

There’s a good chance any loss of support at the right wing of the party will be more than made up from people finally feeling enfranchised if they believe the Party will actually live up to its basic principles, and certainly enough people are flocking to the Party to suggest that support in the next GE will be much stronger.

Blairite Red Tory methodology

anyone who doesn’t support corbyn is a ‘blairite’?