I’ve joined the Labour Party, since Brexit.

I’m kind of in the balance about Corbyn; can’t decide whether he’s the best thing since sliced bread, or a complete liability. Either way, I want to have my say.

enfht – Member

Clodhopper your witty highbrow post missed the word ‘enriched’ but other than that go get’em tiger.

Posted 3 hours ago

Clodhopper FYI enfht struggles to say much on here, usually it’s just one short sentence. Often it’s simply a reworked previous comment, eg :

enfht – Member

Keep fighting the fight Ernie, go get ’em cowboy.

Posted 1 month ago

@bodgy good to get involved, none of us know if we’ll make a difference but you certainly can’t from the sidelines

jambalaya – Member
…I am confused. Corbyn caved in on his views and campaigned (sort of) for Remain,

You’re not really. 🙂

Remain obviously appealed to more Labour voters than not, and it’s not a fundamental party issue AFAIK.

The coalition and Tory government’s characterised as austerity parties when we are running among the most expansionary fiscal policies in the developed world.

Probably folk in Sunderland contrast what they hear about expansionary fiscal policy with what they see around them in terms of child poverty and bedroom taxes.

Anyway carry on. Corbyn wants to be be leader to give Blair (The Labour Party) both barrells on Wednesday

Speaking of reports, any sign of the report on suicides of benefit claimants yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/19/dwp-may-have-to-publish-details-of-benefit-claimant-deaths

“Yes, you need to rub their noses in diversity”

a policy more about gerrymandering than anything else

Anyway carry on. Corbyn wants to be be leader to give Blair (The Labour Party) both barrells on Wednesday

So did I miss this?

Statement in Parliament, public apology on behalf of the Labour Party – however all done without mentioning Blair by name for whatever reason (deliberate lack of respect, concern about prejudicing any legal,action ?)

Jambayla and Nifan….since you think Corbyn is so rubbish..do you care to tell us who you hold in high regard as an MP then? If you don’t I have to assume you’re both just trolling for the sake of party politics (or even just arguing for the simple sake of it)….

Jambayla and Nifan…

Think you’re asking the wrong people, you should start with people who actually support the Labour party.

The anti-Corbyn arguments seem to go like this:

He’s ridiculous!
Why?
Cos no-one will vote for him!
Why?
Cos he’s ridiculous!

etc.

People seem to be arguing from pre-conceived positions and not actually listening to the points. Democracy hasn’t got much hope in those situations has it?

This was posted on FB yesterday, dunno if it was posted here or not but it’s appropriate:

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…”
“You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?”
“No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”
“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”
“I did,” said Ford. “It is.”
“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?”
“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”
“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”
“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”
“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”

It’s the way politica arguments work and its lazy. If one is going to criticise someone they should at least propose their example of a better politician. So, taking Rockapes comment…all those on here criticising Corbyn…who do you think is better and reasons why?

Seems like everyone complains about politicians being lying cheating scumbags. Then we get one who isn’t, and everyone takes the piss.

For ****’s sake people have a word with yourselves.

I think most peoples problem with Corbyn is he lives in some ideal world where everyone is lovely and nice and he doesn’t do reality. His stance against the Iraq war is tainted by the fact he’d oppose every war the UK were involved in, he wouldn’t asses the evidence on whether there was a real threat, his stance on the Gulf War was the same as Iraq.

In my office today he managed to unite people from all sides of the political spectrum and he didn’t unite them with praise for his leadership or policies.

So @Dragon..who do you offer as a reference point as an example of a good MP? If you can’t provide a positive alternative then imo any criticisms of Corbyn are pretty worthless..

I don’t think any of them are perfect and lets face it there are over 500 MPs and you’d be lucky if people know 20, but maybe Ken Clarke, Vince Cable, Charles Kennedy (RIP), Tom Watson, William Hague.

His stance against the Iraq war is tainted by the fact he’d oppose every war the UK were involved in, he wouldn’t asses the evidence on whether there was a real threat

yep, he’d want to ‘talk it out’. Good luck with that, especially when religion has any involvement.

Just checking do the fervent right wingers on here still not like Corbyn today or has he won them over?

@Dragon…why are they better? Pick one maybe….genuinely interested in your opinion of why? I hope Jambayla offers some suggestions too because he’s often quick to criticise Corbyn. Not a JC supporter here but I wouldn’t lambast him either …just looking fo positive dialogue instead of negative dialogue..

So @Dragon..who do you offer as a reference point as an example of a good MP? If you can’t provide a positive alternative then imo any criticisms of Corbyn are pretty worthless..

Edenetc – I would suggest that your question is directed in the wrong direction. The most vocal critics of Corbyn appear to be the PLP ie those people who know him well and who have worked with him/for him. There views are pretty clear and it must be bad if they reckon Eagle is better.

In contrast RWers including CMD in the Commons have been expressing their delight in the current situation within the labour party.

@thm you’ve missed my point. On STW lots of people express negative opinions but do not offer positive examples as reference points. We all vote so everyone’s opnion is important.

yep, he’d want to ‘talk it out’. Good luck with that, especially when religion has any involvement.

What, like in Iraq?

Just think – if he had talked it out, tens or hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive.

What, like in Iraq?

except that you still have the problem of sunnis and shias hating each other and every other slightly different version of islam.

Once Saddam had gone (unless you were to leave him there) there would have been more civil war.

If you think you could have placated them into all living peaceably together then you owe it the world to change careers and become a negotiator.

Molgrips we’ve been through his negative points

No experience of cabinet (ie actaual front line , decision making politics)
Against at lot of things is not the same as making stuff happen you are “for” – totally ineffective
Outdated left wing policies which are non aspirational
Actively turns a blind eye to the extremists he gives creedance to and to those within Momentum

His conduct over the anti-semitism issue within Labour is an absolute disgrace as he has worked flat out to cover it up with 3 different reports finishing with one whose terms of reference made clear what the real objective was.

His ignorance and stubborness at the press conference where one of his few (only?) Jewish MPs left in tears after being verbally berated by a Momentum activist in front of him whilst he then stood back and said nothing (I was not the chairman of the press conference, he was stood at the mic ffs). He got a real roasting at the Commons Select committee over this (and other issues) not least from Umana, however he just doesn’t care.

As for being “straight” his conduct over the Referendem campaign infuritaed Labour, 7.5/10 and his absolutely half heated approach showed he was not “straight”, the honest thing to have done would have allowed Labour MPs to campaign as they wish whilst he was for Leave or just stood aside

except that you still have the problem of sunnis and shias hating each other and every other slightly different version of islam.

Oh yes, absolutely. So maybe we’d have just had a few thousand lives saved.. hardly worth bothering with…?

Outdated left wing policies which are non aspirational

Interested, can you expand on this?

Jambayla and Nifan….since you think Corbyn is so rubbish..do you care to tell us who you hold in high regard as an MP then?

Sure

For a start, Jess Philips could lead the Labour party to electoral victory tomorrow – in fact, given the choice of her, Leadsom or May in the next general election even I would vote for Jess.
Put together a team with Tom Watson, Kier Starmer as home secretary (“If we don’t capture the ambitions of a generation, it doesn’t matter who is leading the party”) and Dan Jarvis as deputy or defence and you begin to have a real team for the future.

The tory party are at risk of repeating Labours mistake at the moment by lurching to comfortable ground – if they want to win the next election, then they need to take a long hard look at the next generation characters involved and begin to reinvent themselves as a post-brexit party of aspiration.
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM, he’s a conviction politician and a parliamentarian. Alongside him Tom Tugendhat is turning out to be an impressive one for the future, Rory stewart, Theresa Villiers, Mark Lancaster, Penny Mordaunt – all of who you could build a team around

Hows about that for a start?

Is “conviction politician” the new political cliche?

Corbyn’s “conviction” (sic) turned into compromise and pragmatism almost immediately.

“Molgrips we’ve been through his negative points”

Not really. You’ve just posted your own reasons for disliking him. And twisting and distorting things to suit your own argument. Again.

And once again, your failure to do your own homework is really quite embarrassing.

Let’s look at that poor wee lamb, Ruth Smeeth, the one who fled in tears, shall we?

Would that be Ruth Smeeth, former director of public affairs at BICOM, British Israel Communications and Research Centre? IE, an organisation that actively lobbies for greater UK support of Israel?

The same Ruth Smeeth who was accused of collusion with the right-wing media? The right wing media which actively supports the Israeli regime? The same Israeli regime that Corbyn and billions worldwide, hate and want to see overthrown?

The same Ruth Smeeth that shed a few crocodile tears and started crying wolf about ‘anti-Semitism’ when it was in fact nothing of the sort?

Yes, THAT Ruth Smeeth. Someone with a vested interest in seeing Corbyn forced out. The Ruth Smeeth that had the freedom to leave a meeting when the very regime she actively supports brutally opresses the people of Palestine in their own homeland, murders innocent men, women and children, uses weapons banned by the Geneva convention, and breaks all kinds of international law in supporting illegal settlements on the West Bank.

Unsurprising that she fled the meeting, rather than have to answer to anyone. Coward.

You’re very quick to (wrongly) accuse Corbyn and Labour of ‘covering up anti-Semitism’, but I never hear you speak about the atrocities committed by Israel, Jamba. Why is that?

Right. It’s going to (hopefully) be a lovely weekend, so I’m off to ride my bike and do stuff. Jamba; why not do the same, instead of spending all your waking hours on here, humiliating yourself? Seriously; do yourself a favour, step away from the keyboard and go and have a nice weekend. And the same to everyone else.

Corbyn’s “conviction” (sic) turned into compromise and pragmatism almost immediately.

I see absolutely no contradiction at all between having conviction and an ability to compromise and be pragmatic. I base my entire political stance on that.

His conduct over the anti-semitism issue within Labour is an absolute disgrace as he has worked flat out to cover it up

NO one could satisfy your levels of outrage unless they were as stupid as say I dislike Israel because they Jewish ; that is all you hear when legitimate concerns are made about its illegal activities. As you cannot morally defend its conduct you just shout racist and then go on to rant about Islam being a threat to our way of life. No leftie is as racist towards the Jewish people as you are towards Islam or the Muslims people.

Frankly sort your own dubious racial attitudes out rather than dish out lectures, its like getting a lecture from Tommy Robinson.

“For a start, Jess Philips could lead the Labour party to electoral victory tomorrow – in fact, given the choice of her, Leadsom or May in the next general election even I would vote for Jess.
Put together a team with Tom Watson, Kier Starmer as home secretary (“If we don’t capture the ambitions of a generation, it doesn’t matter who is leading the party”) and Dan Jarvis as deputy or defence and you begin to have a real team for the future.
The tory party are at risk of repeating Labours mistake at the moment by lurching to comfortable ground – if they want to win the next election, then they need to take a long hard look at the next generation characters involved and begin to reinvent themselves as a post-brexit party of aspiration.
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM, he’s a conviction politician and a parliamentarian. Alongside him Tom Tugendhat is turning out to be an impressive one for the future, Rory stewart, Theresa Villiers, Mark Lancaster, Penny Mordaunt – all of who you could build a team around”

Excellent post.

No leftie is as racist towards the Jewish people as you are towards Islam or the Muslims people.

You can’t be racist against Islam or Muslims, its a religious group rather than a race

(unlike Jewish and Sikh, which case law shows are racial groups) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_religious_crime/#a04

Excellent post.

a pleasure

You can’t be racist against Islam or Muslims, its a religious group rather than a race

Aah – so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better.

His conduct over the anti-semitism

Has he reached “breaking point”, would you say?

Aah – so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better.

Well, you can’t choose your race

you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

“Aah – so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better”.

Well, you can’t choose your race

you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

So religious hatred is OK because people can choose their religion.

Fantastic.

you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

Yes those religious folk are well known for not forcing their religion on a their offspring and giving them free choice

I know of the law and everyone conflates the terms.

Personally I would say the average muslim is more easily identifiable in the street than the average traveller and the average Jew – lots of ammunition for your scribbles there ninfan even though you know very well what I mean.

Personally I would say the average muslim is more easily identifiable in the street than the average traveller and the average Jew

Really?

your ‘average‘ muslim eh?

Go on then… what are your ‘telltale identifying marks’ for muslims then Junky?