used as an insult and derogatory term in newspapers such as the Telegraph and Daily Mail.

Exactly – and they don’t even know what it means – just that it sounds ‘commie’ and ‘foreign’

George Galloway I would consider to be a classic protest politician of no substance.

Are you questioning his indefatigability?

I’d go so far as to suggest he’s been fagitated on several occasions.

So democracy is an illusion then, that’s what you’re saying effectively?

Corbyn is popular with the party faithful, but reinforcing their vote won’t win Labour an election. Labour need to win votes in marginal constituencies.

JY no of course whats happemed in France need not happen here but it would seem wise to take note. For the first time ever the North which was a left wing heartland (its the poorest area in France) has voted FN with the socilaists a distant 3rd. Some analysis on TV showed the FN have become the preferred party of the working class in many regions. The FN are anti immigration, anti EU/euro but they have generous welfare proposals – the basic message is this money should go to people who speak the language, embrace the culture and not to incoming foreigners.

George Galloway I would consider to be a classic protest politician of no substance.

Interesting as to me he is a man of great conviction and poltical acumen. I disagree with a lot of what he stands for but hes a formidable operator.

You admire him for his skills in manipulating people (I.e. politics) rather than his decency and honesty?

I think the problem here is that your understanding of what politics should be about is different to most of us. You think it’s a game to win, don’t you?

And he could do that by engaging with voters who won’t turn out for the Tories or the Blairite Labour party.

And he could do that by engaging with voters who won’t turn out for the Tories or the Blairite Labour party

Worked for the greens. All one of them.

And he could do that by engaging with voters who won’t was out for the Tories or the Blairite Labour party.

Nope, “more or less” on Radio four covered that. Not enough voters in the right place for that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032804x

Corbyn is popular with the party faithful, but reinforcing their vote won’t win Labour an election.

Corbyn being party leader didn’t seem to bother voters in Oldham last week, in fact the Labour share of the vote increased. And yes Labour won.

Labour need to win votes in marginal constituencies.

Well that’s what you personally claim but like many things that say it isn’t necessarily true. Although you would say that wouldn’t you.

Personally I don’t think Labour needs to “win” votes to get a majority in parliament next general election, certainly not from the Tories.

Unprecedented apathy has descended on British politics in recent decades. What Corbyn needs to do to tilt the next general election in Labour’s favour is to energize traditional Labour supporters who no longer bother voting due to the belief that “they’re all the same”, thanks largely to Tony Blair and New Labour.

And there is some evidence that Corbyn’s leadership has energized politics – in two ways in fact imo.

Firstly the Oldham by-election showed some re-energizing of politics. Some feel that the 40% turnout was disappointing but in fact it was a very good turnout for a December by-election in a safe Labour seat.

Almost exactly 3 years ago when Ed Miliband was Labour leader there was a by-election not far away from Oldham in the safe Labour seat of Manchester Central, the turnout on that occasion was 18%, less than half the turnout in Oldham.

And the high Oldham turnout resulted in Labour getting a higher share of the vote – it seems very much that Labour supporters felt motivated despite the almost certainty of a Labour win.

Secondly, tens of thousands have joined the Labour Party since Corbyn became leader, the importance of troops on the ground during the election campaign and on election day cannot be over emphasized imo. Getting out your vote on election day can easily tilt a marginal seat in your favour.

Furthermore we now know that Labour Party members have a leader which they overwhelming support and believe in, probably for the first time in a very long time.

Large numbers of highly motivated and committed activists who see something which they can believe in, and feel is worth fighting for, are likely to achieve a different result to a handful of demoralized activists.

I have no idea if Labour will the general election in 2020 but I do believe that it isn’t necessary to impress Tory voters that Labour make better Tories to win.

Not enough voters in the right place for that.

😆

EDIT : Do you understand what a Tory-Labour marginal means?

It means that there are a great deal of Labour voters.

And that it is vital from them to get out and vote on election day if Labour are to win. If not all as many as possible

What Corbyn needs to do to tilt the next general election in Labour’s favour is to energize traditional Labour supporters who no longer bother voting

Some facts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p032804x

Aside from his Trotskiest policies he never conducted his political career as anyhtung but a protest politician

1) which exactly are Corbyn’s Trotskyite policies?

great conviction

2) which exactly are Galloway’s great convictions?

Thanks outofbreath but I don’t need to be told how important it is to get your supporters to actually vote on election day, I already know. And I’ve seen the result of success and failure.

It means that there are a great deal of Labour voters.

There are a great deal of Labour voters, this is true. 9,347,304 of them at the last national count.

However, Scotroutes was talking about “non-voters”.

@ernie all good points the counter argument in Oldham where indeed the turnout was excellent for a by-election, was that Labour voters where 1) keen to endorse Corbyn and/or 2) terrified of a disastrous loss. In the end who knows and it was a very solid hold

Thanks outofbreath but I don’t need to be told how important it is to get your supporters to actually vote on election day, I already know.

…when pre-conceived ideas meet facts.

..when pre-conceived ideas meet facts.

I think you’ll find that it is a “fact” that if you manage to get 80% of your supporters to vote on election day you are more likely to win that if you only manage to get 70% of your supporters to vote, whatever some geezer on the BBC might have said.

I think the mistake of that BBC programme was to assume that middle class areas don’t house a large number of disenfranchised voters.

Unfortunately I live in a tory stronghold 🙁 – my vote power is 0.1%

Unfortunately I live in a tory stronghold – my vote power is 0.1%

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits? 😯

He said “Trotskiest” politicies. I assume they are the ones Trotskier than all his other policies

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

We get better neighbours and we are more friendly so please stay in the blue bit and dont drag us down to your level

Red bits are home, wish I was there now.

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

I already do. It’s lovely.

I said it right near the beginning of this thread that for Labour to win the next election Tory voters have to move to Labour the data is clear. Yet ernie still won’t go and crunch the data. Marginal seats matter most everyone knows it, apart from seemingly Corbyn and his supporters.

Do you really want to live in one of the red bits?

If you overlay those red bits on the wilder parts of Britain, then I would say those are my ideal places to live.

To be honest, where I live is very similar to those places, it’s just that the political boundaries tie us in with Prestbury/Tytherington/Poynton
If I lived 500yds to the east I would have a voting power of 0.4 in a seat that changed from Lab to Con in 2010

If you overlay those red bits on the wilder parts of Britain, then I would say those are my ideal places to live.

The red bits are all inner city hell holes or post-industrial wastelands. Kind of wild I guess.

Free of trolls though

The red bits are all inner city hell holes.

Apart from all the bits that aren’t

The red bits are all inner city hell holes.

Best keep away, then. Win win.

dragon – Member

I said it right near the beginning of this thread that for Labour to win the next election Tory voters have to move to Labour the data is clear. Yet ernie still won’t go and crunch the data. Marginal seats matter most everyone knows it, apart from seemingly Corbyn and his supporters.
But these marginal seats were all helped to turn blue by apathetic labour support.
You might think (as do all these current Lab rebels) that they flop between whoever is most centre, but it’s a huge assumption – many that I spoke to simply thought that the Labour party had lost all direction. Myself included – voted green.

many that I spoke to simply thought that the Labour party had lost all direction. Myself included – voted green

Great idea lets take a very small self selecting group and apply the results to 60 million people. The Greens only came 2nd in two constituencies.

From the Fabian Society analysis:

Around 4 out of 5 of the extra (net) votes Labour will need to gain in English and Welsh marginals will have to come direct from Conservative voters.

It gives not real reason why this needs to happen and the point remains that the 9.5% swing it says is required in marginal seats coudl equally come from those who do not vote as they will be a larger % than the swing.

In each marginal seat, perhaps Labour will be able to gain 1,000 or so non-Tory votes
(over any gains the Conservatives make themselves). But that means at least 4 out of
5 extra votes will need to come from a (net) shift from current Conservative voters.

As far as I can tell they have not included non voters in their calculations and they claim only a 9.5 % swing is required in marginal seats

This can easily come from voters who currently dont vote

The article does not address, at any point, non voters so I dont think its reasonable to cite in countering this claim.

Around 4 out of 5 of the extra (net) votes Labour will need to gain in English and Welsh marginals will have to come direct from Conservative voters.

Yebbut, you can’t look at that and ignore the fact that they lost 40 seats in Scotland.

the article does cover that

far as I can tell they have not included non voters in their calculations and they claim only a 9.5 % swing is required in marginal seats

This can easily come from voters who currently dont vote

But converting a vote from your opposition is worth two votes (they lose one, you gain one) so relying on converting non-voters is more like trying to achieve a 19% swing.

Yebbut, you can’t look at that and ignore the fact that they lost 40 seats in Scotland.

This, the best the Labour Party can hope for is a coalition with the SNP and thats fraught with danger for Labour as the SNP will only get stronger as a result. There doesn’t seem a snowballs chance in hell Labour will win back more than a handful of those seats in 2020 and I suspect in May 2016 te SNP is going to give them a throoigh hiding in the Holyrood elections

On other business Caroline Lucas has stepped down from Stop the War Coalition saying that whilst shenis against air strikes in Syria she cannot support their stance on “other issues”. Ball back in Corbyns coirt as to whether he attends their fundraiser. I expect joirnalists are researching StW speakers/members for those with terrorist sympathies so they can run the same headlines again with added spice( or dirt if you prefer) that Corbyn will be raising money with them.

and thats fraught with danger for Labour as the SNP will only get stronger as a result.

Aye look at the Lib dems now coalition certainly helped them in this regard.

The journalist troll was a bit bit obvious, and from a member of hacked off a bit daft, in its desire to goad folK and I would be less blatant if I were you as not many seem to have spotted every post is designed for a reaction

FWIW i admire the one on the Quran where you did exactly what the OP was on about it, was touched by the hand of genius that one but this post 3/10 and that is mainly for effort.

Read a few more stories about Caroline Lucas. Seems it was a combination of a few controversial articles posted on their site which where subsequently withdrawn (one of which claimed Daesh was more like the International Army Hilary Benn referenced positively in his speech than the Labour Party !) Also a meeting at Westminster chaired by Diane Abbott where she refused to allow a Syrian speaker who wanted to speak in favour of air strikes.

Labour MP also hits the nail on the head with the statement that “Stop the War isnt so much anti war as anti West”

Quite something when the Green Party withdraw their supoort for an anti-war campaign group. Ball is firmly in Corbyn’s court