Why oh why are more and more car drivers using their foglights when there is actually no need to have them on!?

I routinely (and I know its childish) dazzle the buggers now with full beam…..

'that'll teach em!' stylee

I think its copying the fast and furious films, and it gives me the right hump!

it looks cool innit

also some modern cars won't allow the rear fogs on unless the fronts are on which annoys me

beacuse they are t**sers and think it makes them look cool as stated above

Why would you want the rears on and not the fronts? If it is foggy, it is foggy. If it is not foggy it is dangerous, annoying and illegal to have rear fog lights on.

it's like hats – a quick way of identifying idiots in cars

If you mean rear ones then remember they are not just 'fog' lights. They are therre to be used in any conditions with reduced visiblity, including heavy spray. You should turn them off if it's not too bad, mind.

If you mean front ones, then they won't dazzle anywhere near as much as a normal dipped beam (Well they shouldn't) because they are aimed a lot lower right in front of the car.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with using sidelights and front fogs when it's just a bit murky because sidelights are next to useless on their own and fogs are a good marker to be seen with without any dazzle problems.

Maybe I've thought about it too much… 😉

Since it's not fashionable to use indicators any more, they had to find another light to occupy their time instead.

glen p – front spots are not 'fog' lights

they are designed to aid short range road visibility by counteracting reflection from the water droplets.

they are not designed to aid your visibility to others, and they do little to actually help how much you can see in all but the thickest fogs and at the lowest speeds. People using front spots in light fog on the motorway are idiots or just trying to look cool

Yeah, my car will only allow the rear fog on, once the fronts are turned on. One pull turns on the fronts, another further pull turns on the rear.

Fog lights on when it's not necessary does wind me up. Almost as much as people leaving their foot on the brake in traffic.
And sorry to mention Audi again after the recent Anti-Audi thread, but I was sat behind an A4 driver yesterday on the approach to the black cat roundabout on the A1 who was doing this and the LED brake lights on the new A4 are dazzlingly bright, even when hanging back several metres.

rear fog lights do more harm than good IMO

the vast majority of occasions that they get used (even fog/spray) they mostly are too bright to look at comfortably and, since they're attached to the rear of the car in front, that's potentially a bad thing. They also are as bright as brake lights so can (briefly) cause confusion, esp in heavy traffic and even momentary uncertainty will increase the chances of a crash.

PP – fog lights don't dazzle ? – well adjusted ones, maybe, but they're thin on the ground round here

Fog lights on when it's not necessary does wind me up. Almost as much as people leaving their foot on the brake in traffic

Chill out, dude. Be more critical of your own driving than that of others. I'll bet you've got worse habits than that. 🙂

yep. 🙂

But, I always try and be considerate to other drivers so won't sit in traffic with my foot on the brake.

also some modern cars won't allow the rear fogs on unless the fronts are on which annoys me
urgh. Had that on a company car a few years ago. Few moments with the fuses sorted that out.

urgh. Had that on a company car a few years ago. Few moments with the fuses sorted that out.

Why on earth would you do that? If you need the rears on, then you'll need the fronts on too.

I just don't understand some people. 😐

If you need the rears on, then you'll need the fronts on too
why?

won't dazzle anywhere near as much as a normal dipped beam

on a perfectly flat road with no dips and bumps yes. However in the real world…

Personally, I see nothing wrong with using sidelights and front fogs when it's just a bit murky because sidelights are next to useless on their own and fogs are a good marker to be seen with without any dazzle problems.

Maybe I'm a bit full of "I've recently passed my test and still remember everything self-righteousness" but I was instructed (by my instructor, who is one of the few driving instructor instructors) that in that situation you should be driving on dipped headlights.

Sidelights A.K.A. parking lights are low energy lights for…. parking on unlit roads.

Fog lights A.K.A. bling lights are for… fog and visibility below 100 m

HTH

PP – nope, as above

front spots are unnecessary in all but the thickest fog, at night and at low speed

rear fog lights are required by law and actually serve a purpose

I like to flash my front fog lights on and off at them when I see them. Again, I can't have the back on without the front. It's actually illegal is it not?

MrMW – as above, I'd disagree on your rear lights point almost all of the time

There are times in slower moving traffic when I'm at the back of a queue when I want my rear fogs on so I don't get rear ended but I'd like to switch the front ones off so i don't blind the poor sod in front.

My newest car is really weird. Below 40 mph, if you have the low beam on and you indicate or turn the steering wheel past a certain one of the front fogs automatically comes on to 'aid' with cornering. I actually took the car back to the dealership thinking there was an electrical fault.

I also hate people who use side lights and front fogs, if visbility is bad enough to need lights then dipped is what you need. Side lights are a hang over from parking lights and IMHO should be used when moving.

I'm very close to the top of a hill which is often in the cloud with very low visbility and I often see (at the last minute) cars coming towards me with no lights on yet alone fogs, it's even worse. The numpties don't seem to ba able to cope with the concept of one minute visibility os fine, the next it isn't.

they aren't for 'almost all of the time' scaredypants

they are for when visibility requires it, as someone who prides myself on good defensive driving i need to know (especially on the motorway) what cars are around for the next half mile+, in fog most rear lights don't cut the mustard and rear fogs are necesary.

People just use them when there is the slightest bit of low cloud/spray though which is annoying

that in that situation you should be driving on dipped headlights.

OK, fair enough. But if you think about it, what are front foglights, in effect?
They are headlights with a VERY dipped beam! 🙂
They are certainly not "spot lights" are they? If anything they are "flood lights" yes?

Driving isn't all about blindly following the rules. Try thinking for yourself. 😉

front fogs are useless as an indication of your presence to other vehicles as the are commonly only 6" off the the road surface.

and they are spot lights, if they were flood lights they would not be directional.

Side lights are a hang over from parking lights and IMHO should be used when moving.

Surely you mean NOT used? 🙂
If so, I'd agree with you there: Most times you see the car before you see sidelights!

front fogs are useless as an indication of your presence to other vehicles as the are commonly only 6" off the the road surface

What a load of drivel. Do you only look straight ahead? Do you have tunnel vision? No, of course you don't (I hope)

and do you always drive on a perfectly flat road surface?

try driving with your eyes 6" off the road and see how far you get

and do you always drive on a perfectly flat road surface?

I don't drive on one with 6in+ bumps on it, no!

Any bump that masks the foglights, I'm never going to get the car over it, am I cleverclogs! 😉

i need to know (especially on the motorway) what cars are around for the next half mile+,

WTF for – are you doing 100mph in this heavy fog ?

What you really need is to know where they are and how they are moving in relation to you. A single, highly diffused (due to fog) very bright point of light will tell you none of this. Even a pair will tell you very little. If you catch it up, it's highly likely that this light will then be uncomfortable to look at and … (see above)

In about 35 yrs of driving I've felt the conditions might justify rear fog lights on perhaps 3 or 4 occasions and front ones, maybe twice. Even on those days I reckon the cons balanced the pros

"Why would you want the rears on and not the fronts? If it is foggy, it is foggy."
"urgh. Had that on a company car a few years ago. Few moments with the fuses sorted that out.

Why on earth would you do that? If you need the rears on, then you'll need the fronts on too."

You are trolling here aren't you?? Surely, you are not that stupid?

If its foggy you don't just turn your fog lights on, do you? If you are in moving traffic, cars front and rear they don't need your fog lights on. It dazzles to the front and masks your brake lights and dazzles to the rear.
If theres standing water front fogs (which are designed to luminate the edge of the road) reflect up off the standing water dazzling coming traffic.

Like your main beam fog likes should be managed at all time.
I thought this was the easy stuff

unless PP lives on a lake made of mercury i'd suspect he is trolling merrily away 🙂

and i'm not sure i see your point scaredypants

i agreed that they are rarely necesary but how can you say that not knowing what vehicles are in the next half mile of road is not an incredibly necesary part of being road aware?

In my feeble 14 years of driving (30k + per year for the last 5) there have been multiple occasions where (especially on the motorway) sidelights have been as good as useless, perhaps i should be driving 30ft away from the vehicle in front just so i can see it?

a bright diffuse spot of light is far better than dim sidelights that can be seen as little as 100ft away

This debate is getting off the OP though, isn't it? What irritates me and all normal people is the surprisingly high number of people that run with rear fog lights all the time, presumably because they think being seen is safer, and damn everyone else. Utter dicks. Utter selfish dicks.

And no, it isn't a getting old and grumpy thing – it has always annoyed me and has always been illegal.

Okaaaaay
**cracks knuckles and starts typing**

If its foggy you don't just turn your fog lights on, do you?

Yes

If you are in moving traffic, cars front and rear they don't need your fog lights on.

Correct

It dazzles to the front

No. Wrong. Front fogs, as I've already pointed out, are more dipped than your dipped headlights. And as mrmichaelwright kindly pointed out, are a LOT lower down. So they won't dazzle to the front, no.

masks your brake lights and dazzles to the rear.

Yes, so you turn the rears off first, leaving the front on so you can see where you are going better. It's more important to see where you are going than pretty much ANYTHING else.

If theres standing water front fogs (which are designed to luminate the edge of the road) reflect up off the standing water dazzling coming traffic.

Well I'd disagree with that myself, but lets imagine it's true for a bit: If there's standing water, I'd like to see it and avoid it please so I don't drench pedestrians and cause more spray problems for those behind me. So if I'm moving, and there's traffic behind then IMO it's OK to keep the fronts on, being as they are more dipped than the headlights and only aimed at the edge of the road. And if the car in front hit said standing water, I get the spray…..

Like your main beam fog likes should be managed at all time.
I thought this was the easy stuff

I do.
And it is thanks, especially when you think about it properly…. 🙂

Next…………!

Front spots/fogs are optional extras, people switch them on because they paid for them, and if you've paid for them you'd be daft not use them wouldn't you?

If there was any other good reason to fit them they'd be compulsory, not optional.

They're just jewellery. 🙂

This debate is getting off the OP though, isn't it?

Welcome to STW! 🙂

unless PP lives on a lake made of mercury i'd suspect he is trolling merrily away

Well, not really. I suppose my point is that thinking for yourself sometimes outweighs general opinion. 🙂

this is stw, thinking for yourself is a naughty swear

🙂

I have mine on most drives home in the winter. But then my commute is 25 miles of B roads and unclassified roads over dartmoor.

I find they pick up the sheep sleeping on the side of the road better….

and I seem to remember in my car manual (Golf) they are referred to as driving lights rather than front fogs lights….

Not the rear ones though, jam bo?

I don't get it. I want to be able to see well, and more light helps that. So, if my car had fog lights on the front, I'd use them. They're not dazzling or a problem and it just means you can see better in all conditions.

I don't understand why people only use their parking lights tro drive in the rain, or even no lights at all. It's well scary.