A woman has been jailed for 5 years and 3 months for promoting terrorism on Facebook.

“promoting terrorism” consisted of:-

a) posting a picture of a suicide vest and unwittingly passed details of a route into the country to an undercover police officer.”

b) police finding photos of Khan’s children holding guns and swords.

c)re-posting an article entitled “Raising Mujahid Children”, intended for Islamist mothers

d) posting a message on an extremist website, saying she wished her son would one day become a jihadi.

It doesn’t sit comfortably with me that Britain is jailing someone for acts which appear to be little more than her right to free speech.

Do others feel this or have I missed the point ?

Rich.

Any link? If that’s the full extent of her “crime” I find it both unjust and provocation of the Muslim community. back to H block but for Muslims rather than Catholics.

Should be a good break for the kids though, no Jihad for them for at least a couple of years until she is out.

It doesn’t sit comfortably with me that Britain is jailing someone for acts which appear to be little more than her right to free speech.

So why can I be jailed for inciting racial hatred if I was to promote detroying mosques, surely that is just free speech?

I think you need to learn what inciting means
She as not just saying what she thought she was encouraging other to do what she thought [ when to do this was illegal and what she promoted was illegal]

If I was for example to suggest we murder a certain person , explain the method to do this and then send/promote material to do this and then try to encourage folk to do it then , in your view, I am guilty of no crime

I disagree.

She also passed details to an undercover policeman of how to enter Syria in order to fight for ISIS/Extremist groups. She admitted promoting terrorism in Syria, thats a criminal offence to do so from the UK even if the place you are encouraging those actions in is in another country

has anyone seen a decent summary of the case?

When I was on jury service, I learned that threatening to kill somebody is quite a serious criminal offence…. even if it’s indirect, eg: “you’d better make sure your life insurance is paid up to-date sonny-jim!”.

So it seems reasonable that encouraging others (including you own children) to become Jihadists, is also an offence. If she had just re-posted a few inflammatory articles you could perhaps write it off to free speech, but this seems rather more than that.

Sorry to start a love in with Junkyard, but I don’t see why anybody would have a problem with this. Get them taps on lads, we’re gonna have a robust exchange of opinions!

Having heard the interview with her by the BBC that was carried out after she pleaded guilty she deserves to be locked up.

I doubt her views will change but hopefully she’ll be more careful about expressing them and telling other people to blow themselves up.

It’s not so much the verdict as the sentence I’m uncomfortable with. Five years! I feel three months in an open de-tox/anti-brainwashing centre would be more appropriate. Or the offer to emigrate to a country where her views would be considered moderate. Would Saudi take her?

Actually, never mind….

Small detail but in the picture I saw of her, she’s wearing a camo headband. I don’t think that’s normal for women.

She’s definitely more committed than the Muslim woman who was caught listening to her iPod while on jury duty and who claimed that the court being a Christian court, it had no relevance to her. She was just an idiot.

Would Saudi take her?

Pretty stupid comment.

1) Saudi regime not big fans of women with opinions

2) Saudi regime not big fans of ISIS, as ISIS hopes to overthrow it

Some more quotes from her here, seems she did an interview with newsnight.

Guardian

So she dreamed of sending her 8 year boy to fight, got him and her 2 year old to pose with various weapons, stated that she was going to travel to syria with at least one of her children and published a guide on how to prepare young children for jihad.
If this isn’t grounds for social services to step in, I don’t know what is.
“If we could we wouldn’t live in Britain. My passport has been taken away from me, Britain is the last place I would want to live in and I’m sure that you know the majority of people with my mindset are actually behind bars because they don’t want to stay in Britain.”
following her release, she should be given her wish.

I was thinking exactly that but thought if I post it I will get flamed. I cannot think of a country which would admit her, Syria won’t and I suspect neither would Iran. If it where possible to find a country to take her I’d gladly see her citizenship removed and her sent elsewhere

She’s clearly nuts (and hence very dangerous) turning up to court with the camouflage head scarf under her burka (which co-incidently is illegal in France)

She’s clearly nuts

perhaps we should offer treatment and understanding of someone who isn’t in control of their emotions and opinions then?

which co-incidently is illegal in France

I think that’s probably more indicative of French intolerance to difference than something to criticise the people who choose to wear it and not behave in a way that’s deemed illegal in the UK?

nobody remember when gerry adams voice was dubbed? 😆 you only have the freedom of speech to a point, this can be taken away at any time. There’s loads of exceptions in UK law. I agree it’s a ridiculous state of affairs.

Surely she would be welcomed with open arms in any IS controlled area?

Surely she would be welcomed with open arms in any IS controlled area?

Yes but sadly they don’t give out passports or citizenship so we cannot remove her British one and just send her there

perhaps we should offer treatment and understanding of someone who isn’t in control of their emotions and opinions then?

Agreed, within a secure prison environment and probably for longer than 5 years IMO.

I think that’s probably more indicative of French intolerance to difference than something to criticise the people who choose to wear it and not behave in a way that’s deemed illegal in the UK?

Agreed, that’s why I mentioned it to show how much less tolerant the French are than us. I wasn’t at all advocating the same here.

Yes but sadly they don’t give out passports or citizenship so we cannot remove her British one and just send her there

But apparently she already know how to get there.

“If we could we wouldn’t live in Britain. My passport has been taken away from me, Britain is the last place I would want to live in and I’m sure that you know the majority of people with my mindset are actually behind bars because they don’t want to stay in Britain.”

I’m generally pretty liberal, but if you don’t want to live in Britain, abide by uk laws and be tolerant etc and want to live in a violent ‘Islamic state’ which isnt really true to Islamic belief then I think we should assist. Passport cancelled, citizenship revoked, parachute issued, booted out the back of a C130 over ISIS controlled territory and you can take you chances with the locals and the airstrikes.

I’m pretty liberal too. If you don’t want to live here, er… don’t.

There is no way the woman would have been given over five years in France. So which country is more tolerant?

one_happy_hippy

I’m generally pretty liberal, but if you don’t want to live in Britain, abide by uk laws and be tolerant etc and want to live in a violent ‘Islamic state’ which isnt really true to Islamic belief then I think we should assist. Passport cancelled, citizenship revoked, parachute issued, booted out the back of a C130 over ISIS controlled territory and you can take you chances with the locals and the airstrikes.

And what would you do with her son? Would you be able to do the booting?

Would she be allowed to wear the veil in France ?

Let her live in France, then.

In court no.

And rightly so IMO. Facial expression and body language are important to the jury.

We’ve had the Burka debate and you know my view; I’m against people covering their face in public whether it’s with a helmet, a hoodie and scarf, a mask or whatever. Some activities and weather conditions justify covering your face, religious conviction does not. The French state is secular, that means no signs of religious belonging in public institutions. My son would be sent home from school if he wore a T-shirt with a picture of Christ on for example (though he’d probably just be asked to turn it inside-out).

France is a pretty tolerant place, the concept of “citizen’s arrest” doesn’t exist so you don’t go around enforcing the law yourself in vigilante style. The Vichy legacy means people are reticent to denounce crime unless they feel people are in danger. Gendarmes and police are very good at standing around ignoring things that might be illegal but aren’t doing anyone any harm. So some local women wear the Burka when shopping and nobody takes any notice.

It doesn’t sit comfortably with me that Britain is jailing someone for acts which appear to be little more than her right to free speech.

‘Free speech’. Good innit?
How long do you think we’d have this entitlement for if her & her ’cause’ (or what ever the **** it is, got a hold over here? (like it hasn’t already)
Can’t believe the OP thinks this is just free speech & nothing more sinister, longer term.

yeah, it’s all that citizens arresting that makes the UK such an intolerant place. I was arrested six times on the way to the airport last time, it was a nightmare… 🙄

Wearing the veil is only banned in courts ? I thought it was wider than that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28106900

I was arrested six times on the way to the airport last time, it was a nightmare

That one citizen really hates you. Do they post on here?

You asked if she would be allowed to wear the veil in France, Allthepies. I don’t know what you consider the veil to be. Your own link makes the distinction between thngs banned in state institutions such as the head scarf and big crosses, and things banned in any public place i.e.face covering. Read your own link and work it out.

As I’ve already said, the law is one thing and enforcement is another. Cover your face, go for a walk and see what happens – nothing. You’re more likely to be stopped on the way into a French supermarket with a hoodie and scarf than a burka. However try to get into a state school with either and you’ll fail.

The ruling refers to a full face veil in a public place from a quick scan of the BBC article.

Whether that’s rigidly enforced is a moot point. If it’s French law then one day you might be OK, the next day you might not. By the letter of the law it’s not permitted is my understanding.

I fail to see what you don’t understand? allthepies. There’s nothing wrong with my posts and there’s nothing wrong with the BBC article which it might be worth reading rather than scanning.

Coming back to the topic, five years in jail is not helpful IMO. The Danish approach of déradicalisation gets my support.

OK, to clarify things.

1. Is it legal and permitted to wear a full face veil in public in France ?

2. Does this count as a full face veil ?

3. Is wearing such a veil legal and permitted in the UK ?

is this going to be one of those threads in which edukator bangs on about how awesome France is and how terrible the UK is, and makes a whole bunch of incorrect claims about the differences between French and UK law?

I was arrested six times on the way to the airport last time, it was a nightmare

That one citizen really hates you. Do they post on here?

I was accused of criminal tedium. it’s a fair cop gov but society the burka’s to blame!

Trebuchet to the middle east to her fellow muslimist nutters, job done 🙂

No this is going to be a thread in which Konabunny posts nonsense such as

I was arrested six times on the way to the airport last time, it was a nightmare

And Allthepies repeatedly asks a question I’ve already answered and his own link gives an excellent explanation to.

Very much on topic. I consider a sentence of over five years for theis woman to be unnecessary, provocative and inappropriate, and have suggested a deradicalisation programme similar to that set up by the Danes. Any comments on that?