I don’t think sticking to your religious beliefs is bigotry

It is if you pick and chose the bits of your religion that lead you to discriminate against others or intefere inothers lives.

this is the bit about me you seem unable to understand. Yes I abhor religion for the damage it does to individuals and humanity as a whole – but I would never let that influence my actions towards individuals because that would go against my personal moral values which is to treat all equally.

another example of my bigotry towards the religious. I donate regularly to my local sikh temple – because they use that money to feed the homeless of Edinburgh. I also have given food to my local Presbyterian church for their foodbank

andyrm

and definitely not be shouting people down or recklessly banding offensive terms like “bigot” about just because someone has a different belief or viewpoint.

~which is what mefty attempts to do to me – plenty of times he has called me a bigot on this thread despite no evidence whatsoever. I am not sure mefty actually understands what bigotry and hypocrisy are.

We should be respectful of alternative views, regardless of whether we agree with them,

Not if they are bigoted. Do and believe what you want as long as you don’t harm others or seek to treat them in a lesser manner. That’s fine.

mefty – Member

Sometimes those rights will come into conflict as with gay marriage. We as a society need to find a compromise to assuage both sides.

No, we don’t. Gay people shouldn’t have to accept being second class citizens in order to make religious people (who will not be negatively affected in any way by them getting married) happy. Not all conflicts merit a compromise. What’s the compromise on a religious person’s belief in female genital mutilation vs the female’s right not to be mutilated?

(in the case of gay marriage, the solution is simple; gay people should be able to get married, and in return, we don’t force religious people into gay marriages. Deal?)

For clarification…

bigotry
?b???tri/
noun
intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
“the difficulties of combating prejudice and bigotry”
synonyms: prejudice, bias, partiality, partisanship, sectarianism, discrimination, unfairness, injustice;

Voting against gay marriage is literally text book bigotry.

which is what mefty attempts to do to me – plenty of times he has called me a bigot on this thread despite no evidence whatsoever. I am not sure mefty actually understands what bigotry and hypocrisy are.

I haven’t actually. I said you have bigotted views of those of faith, I then produced something you had written to support my judgement, I should perhaps add that on the original thread it was pretty much universally regarded as bigotry. You are on the other hand are probably back to being the most frequent offender of what andyrm identifies.

I don’t think you have twigged yet that the these two things might not be entirely unrelated.

This STW thread was brought to you with the word bigot, and the number 69.

Voting against gay marriage is literally text book bigotry.

A text book for five years olds.

Relgious opposition to homosexuality has a very simple and understandable basis. You can’t procreate so the population would die out. The various religious texts were written thousands of years ago and have stood the test of time outstandingly well. I as a Christian can cut them some slack on this issue and take a non-literal interpretation. The fact its prominently mentioned in all the major religious texts proves it has been a fact of life for as long as we’ve been around.

TJ the Bible describes homsexuality as an “abomination” as such its the strongest condemnation of any act.

Your attacks on me do not become you. Your understanding of what a bigot and hypocrite are is sadly lacking.

I have never treated someone less favourably because of their religion nor would I want to. thats what bigotry is. I have never pretended to moral values I do not act by. thats what hypocrisy is

You on the other hand have made continual personal attacks on me. Have I made anything like the same attacks on you?

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Jamba

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Romans 1:26-27
“ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.[

and in christianity an abomination is strong criticism to say the least. IIRC there are ( depending whos interpretations and which version of the bible) around 20 odd passages about homosexuality all condemning it

Edit – did you edit your post?

When I was an adviser I was just like you, very good at giving advice, very bad at following it myself.

Have you found any Buddhist friends yet?

Angela Merkel voted against gay marriage.

Well according to the posts above she’s a bigot then in just the same was as is JRM, the 35% of French who voted for Len Pen and the 38% of the Irish who voted against same sex marriage. Or maybe not.

Anything in the Quran about this, TJ?

jambalaya – Member
Relgious opposition to homosexuality has a very simple and understandable basis.

Simple and understandable it is.
Moral, ethical or acceptable to intelligent and fair people, it isn’t.

TJ yes we are agreeing. It’s described as an abomination, ghe strongest possible condemnation and IMO for good reason when you understand when the religious texts where written.

@matty it was moral and ethical and intelligentl at the time it was written.

Legalising same sex marriage has a number of knock on effects including the ability to adopt children. As such its clear to me why it’s such a controversial issue.

Ta Jamba – I misunderstood you

CFH – IIRC Islam condemns homosexuality in similar ways. I don’t know if its in the Quran or from the old testament which as you know is also one of islams texts. I really should have another go at reading the quran.

I have not heard any UK muslim politicians condemning homosexuality in the same sort of terms tho tho – indeed Bashir Ahmed fought for equal rights for all. Kahn is a promoter of tolerance as well is he not?

Causing harm to others for no reason has never been moral.

I’m going to have to quote the dictionary again, aren’t I.

moral
ADJECTIVE

Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour.

strongest possible condemnation and IMO for good reason when you understand when the religious texts where written.

The person who wrote them was an immoral bigot.

Goodnight folks. another day of looking after edinburghs frail elderly starts at 7 am

Before I go that reminds me of another example of my bigotry towards the religious. I personally went to a great deal of effort to take someone to a Roman catholic funeral. No one else on the staff was prepared to do so. It was important to that person in my care so I personally spent my time and effort to take them. I also have often taken people in my care to church. why? because it is important to them

Shouldn’t Christians give up their worldly goods? Share what they dont immediately need?

They tend to kinda just do what suits them to be honest. Which is fine – that’s what most of us do. We just don’t have to jump through hoops in order to justify it. It is utterly hilarious reading religionists justify their hypocrisies.

I have not heard any UK muslim politicians condemning homosexuality in the same sort of terms tho tho –

As JRM? Your homework is to find an instance of him doing that, to give you a head start he didn’t speak in any of the debates. All I can see is that he isn’t proud of the gay marriage vote because it upset many of their core voters. So I am very excited to see your evidence.

A text book for five years olds

Was it too advanced for you 😉

Seriously how is a religious person being opposed to homosexuality and wishing to treat them differently not discrimination and bigotry?

what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

that shalt ignord the cpts risible whatabouterry

Happy to say Islamic thought is bigoted towards homosexuals

that shalt ignord the cpts risible whatabouterry

Give him a Labour politician in Bury who’s Muslim and bigoted against homosexuals and he just might explode in a sticky white mess.

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

its more credible than most of what they believe and logically more sound 😉

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

Yep it’s a classy one, my centuries old transcrip rules my life (where I choose to let it) so you best not complain when I selectivly choose to apply it.

Anyone been caught working 7 days recently?

I quite like the argument that its bigoted to object to them being bigots

That sounds hilarious, please direct me to it so I can have a laugh.

I think that’s what I always struggle with most… Some religious people are completely happy to pick and choose what parts of their own faith they will pay any heed to and will disregard chunks of it. But if anyone else chooses to disregard parts or all of that faith, that’s unacceptable.

I mean, the basic issue of partial practice of faith is a tricky one by itself… Though completely understandable. But holding other people up to the standards of your faith and expecting to have it influence their lives even though they’re not believers themselves, while considering it acceptable to deviate from those standards yourself… I can’t see how anyone can justify that?

I can’t see how anyone can justify that?

Indeed.

Dictionary to the rescue again!

hypocrisy
[hi-pok-ruh-see]
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

I don’t think it’s that simple, it often seems more like a disconnect with reality. It’s a double standard but not necessarily a deliberate one

When threads start to go off the rails it’s always a relief when the odd pearl brightens the mood

Yes I abhor religion for the damage it does to individuals and humanity as a whole – I donate regularly to my local sikh temple – because they use that money to feed the homeless of Edinburgh. I also have given food to my local Presbyterian church for their food bank

On top of that I have to say that I admire folk who have the ability to take a principled stance against the likes of JRM while at the same time providing practical support to organisations that are more strident advocates of the very things that are objected to. Few could balance such moral contradictions successfully, if at all. A lesson for us all perhaps?

I have never treated someone less favourably because of their religion nor would I want to. thats what bigotry is. I have never pretended to moral values I do not act by. thats what hypocrisy is

Right…….

Geetee – I loathe and despise religion and the religious, I believe all people who believe in god(s) are feeble minded.
I think the religious, religion and belief in god as an incredibly regressive, negative, dangerous and harmful mental illness. It is a force of incredible harm and holds back the human race.

Its not biogotry.

A lesson for us all perhaps?

its certainly far better than berating the forum for the things that you yourself are most guilty of

Anyone been caught working 7 days recently?

I went for a bike ride, but I’m pretty sure my cycling clothes are mixed fibres, so I’m still screwed.

Browsing STW on my phone today ( no blocking add on) I saw this gem from THM ” Few could balance such moral contradictions successfully, if at all. A lesson for us all perhaps? ” in a clear sarcastic tone

Which just shows with delicious irony the complete lack of understanding of ethics and morals he displays.

When one actually understands the issues and understands ethics and morals its easy to see there is no moral contradiction here at all. Its only when one has no moral conviction of your own substituting an unthinking adherence to an archaic text for thinking that anyone would find a moral contradiction here.

You see I firmly believe ALL discrimination is wrong. Anyone with any morals would agree this is so. To treat anyone as less worthy because of their sex, sexuality, religion or anything else is simply immoral and wrong.

Those who defend discrimination on the grounds of religious belief show their complete lack of any morals.

I find it remarkable that anyone can hold a belief based upon (reworked) fiction? However i am happy for anyone to hold a view provided it does not opress another human being – ooops thats a lot of religions…. and there in lies the problem.

I have a friend who is a Mormon, nice bloke and a nice family. He works really hard and treats people well. He however takes significant risks in life and business but fundamentally his view is God will dig him out of the shit – so far this has not worked out
£1m house in negative equity
Spends way beyond his means
Son is Gay (mormon issue not an oldmanmtb issue)
He is battling a terminal disease
He still goes to work 60 hours a week and does 20 hours with the Church

And he still believes divine intervention will come

One day thats all going to collapse – this folks is a worked example of why religion is bad.

He works really hard and treats people well. He however takes significant risks in life and business but fundamentally his view is God will dig him out of the shit – so far this has not worked out

Strangly enough I’m off to meet the guys who make the software we sell next week, all the top team and most of the devs are Mormons, they are straight up, don’t believe in debt are a little too straight in business unfortunately. However politically and morally they don’t judge us, will be picking up a hefty bar tab, won’t enquire about people’s personal choices or lifestyles etc.

This is 2019…

And it mostly stinks…