Only one way to find out... FIIIGHT!
(Or ask STW)
Or are they both overpriced and a £40 dhb will do the job?
Only one way to find out... FIIIGHT!
(Or ask STW)
Or are they both overpriced and a £40 dhb will do the job?
Goretex XCR, superb stuff, best jacket I ever had.
Difficult to say if it's worth the investment, especially if you fall off a lot.
Neither... Nikwax Analogy wipes the floor with them both...
I'll let you know I've just order an Event and wonder how it's better than my current £40 Altura Nevis (which now needs replacing). Still stif have an offer of 15% off so bought some new elbow/arm pads, too so it bought the price down a little, still expensive, and wonder it it's going to be worth extra £80 over the Nevis.
Goretex more water/windproof - Event more breathable. Personally I manage fine with a montane featherlight which is only showerproof.
That's just a link to the wikki about it, but it lists some of the people who use it to make stuff on there as well, with Paramo being the main one.
It does have the disadvantage of it being quite warm to wear, and being the sweaty bugger that I am, it does make me sweat, but it's also amazingly breathable, and it will even dry you off if you wear proper wicking base layers under it... not something that Goretex or eVent would ever do.
Yeah, I should've said what I want it for - will only wear when proper cold and/or proper wet. Have an Endura Ultralight for slightly wet conditions
First Nikwax Analogy jacket I find is £250. It can be as good as it wants for that money, I won't be spending half that much on a jacket.
For cold and wet it's the only thing I'd go for, in fact, it's pretty much what I wear riding all winter and the only place I really ever get a sweat patch is on my back where my hydration pack sits, but I get that whatever! And it's kept me dry in many a downpour... have even used it in the Scottish highlands in winter and it worked amazingly...
They last as well, mine is coming up for 8 years old now, and still going just as well as when I bought it. It's got some small holes in it, but due to the way it works they make no difference whatsoever... and if you rip it, you can just sew it up and it works just like new!
The £250 one would be the the full on mountaineering jacket... you propably want to be looking at something like the Velez smock, although it's still not cheap at about £150ish... but then that's right in with Goretex and the like, and it'll last you for years too..
I don't feel so bad now I've seen the Nikwax is £250 maybe that is what I can move to if the Event isn't any good, that's over twice the price of the Event!!
Remember, if it's really wet, breathability goes out of the window. In those conditions, a cheap jacket does as well as an expensive one.
I'm sure it's fantastic, they wouldn't be able to ask that much for it otherwise (and it is a very nice looking jacket, the one I saw). But I need a jacket to replace my £45 Endura Bryce, which has lasted me around 5-6 years and only needs replacing cos the seams have come unstuck inside.
£40-£80 is the price bracket I'm interested in.
druidh - I am looking forward to comparing the Event with my old "cheap" jacket I am not convinced but willing to try on the premise of there is not such thing as the wrong weather just the wrong clothes
I got a paramo analogy off the internet for £155 that was £180RRP. It was the most basic if I remember. Discounts don't seem too readilly had
I read up a lot about jackets before buying, and it seems that GoreTex is completely flawed; They had to add a layer of plastic between the GoreTex layer and outside to stop your sweat letting rain in (or summit like that) that reduces the breathability loads.
eVent seems to avoid this problem, but I found it really hard to source in the UK.
The paramo nickwax stuff is brill. When you first wear it, it doesn't feel like a proper coat - feels like a duvet tbh, but I soon got used to it! It's based on an active explusion system (kind of works like capilary action as far as I can fathon) that they say is modelled on animals like otters. Prefered by the british army becuase it doesn't rustle like most jackets. "Gucci" gear as they call it
druidh... that certainly hasn't happened yet in mine, and it has stood up to a soaking for about 8 hours when walking one year in Scotland... my rucksack even gave up that day. Thank god we were staying in a bothy!
funkynick - sorry, I was referring to the eVent/Goretex membrane types. I appreciate the different strategy adopted in the Nikwax Analogy clothing. Personally, I've always found Paramo too warm for me (but then I "run" warm anyway).
Thanks chaps, that settles it. I'm going for another cheap one.
well, i'll just add that i have the gill event jacket ( now the dhb something ) and it's superb. i'd buy another gill tomorrow if they still made them, but don't like teh colours on the dhb. i'd look at the pace 3x3 as a replacement. you're going to sweat in any waterproof, but i never feel as though i'm boiling in the bag. if it's proper raining i would rather be wearing it than not, and at this time of year i'll wear it all day if it's really cold, and be very comfortable thanks very much.
there is no magic bullet. if you're warm enough on a bike, you'll always overheat a bit riding up hills, and sweat. all that matters is what happens afterwards.
paramo for winter and Autumn - put it on and forget about it.
eVent for summer and for fast and light when you'll be carrying it - don't touch Gore - it's DESIGNED to work best in very cold and DRY conditions - it's breathability falls the wetter it gets - not really UK friendly!
only slight downside to eVent and paramo is the need to keep them clean - i.e i wash mine weekly as i wear them everyday but my paramo(s) have done me proud for 6 years and will last indefinitely - teh eVent is incredibly breathable - to teh point of feeling cold when static.
hope that helps.
I had an older jacket that was waterproof but was ill fitting (too baggy) and didn't breathe.
Two weeks ago I went into retailer to try a few on, its all well and good taking advice from others if they are the same shape as you and have the same riding style, some jackets are more road biased in their shape and others are looser fitting etc, so try before you buy.
I went with the idea that I was going to buy a Gore, actually found that an Altura fitted me a lot better and appeared slightly heavier in grade which for me is a consideration as I only ride off road and fall off occasionally.
Wore it last Saturday when it was tipping down, it kept me warm and dry, now purchasing shorts too
Maybe another brand to consider?
In my experience i find that my goretex packlight is a little less breathable than my Event jacket but the Event jacket needs treating more to replenish the DWR finish.
My experience is that Goretex is less breathable, but more hardwearing than Event, so it depends on what your requirements are.
Dez, try the Endura Convert 2. Wiggle have them, I've seen someone wearing one and I reckon they look just the ticket - About £62
eVent and Goretex are both fully waterproof, but eVent is much better. Why, I hear you ask? Well, here goes:
Both fabrics essentially rely on small pores in a membrane to transmit water vapour, but not water droplets. However, in Goretex the membrane would be very fragile so the actual membrane that ends up in your jacket is bonded to a solid layer of polyeurethane (I think) which is hydrophillic on one side and hydrophobic on the other. The water condenses on the inside of the membrane and gets sucked through the material itself towards the pores and thence to freedom. So there are really no actual tiny air holes in it at all. The rate of this moisture being transported varies hugely depending on the outside temperature and the humidity. So if you are on top of Everest and the humidity is 5% and it's -40C then it'll breathe really well. If on the other hand you're in Manchester and it's 7 degrees C and 90% humidity it doesn't work that well at all.
eVent fabric on the other hand really is made of loads of tiny holes that air can actually flow in and out of. So it breathes very well, and crucially the same regardless of how warm or damp it is. Hence, for us in the UK, eVent is far better.
There is a webpage somewhere with all this research on it, with full details of the experiment, showing moisture vapour transport figures for a load of different fabrics. Goretex XCR is the best of the rest and when it's cold and dry it approaches eVent, but otherwise eVent is the business since it's the ONLY fabric (I think) to have the actual tiny holes.
Oh and my mate's got an eVent jacket that he rarely reproofs and it always beads well - as opposed to my budget XCR jacket and my Paclite one, which both seem to need reproofing a lot. This probably has a lot to do with the surface fabric tho not the membrane.
Oh, just looked at the link from Dango above (Cyclesurgery) and they have the Endura for £53. Cheers Dango!
Well, it depends on how hot you run really. Paramo is very breathable, but the pump liner means it's quite warm, a bit like wearing an extra base layer. I use a Velez smock in winter, but only around freezing temperatures.
Gore-Tex fabrics are less breathable, but have a lot of development put into them. Pro Shell would be a nice fabric for a bike jacket, but I'm not sure anyone uses it yet. It's basically what replaced XCR a year or so ago, lighter, tougher, nicer drape and slide over under-layers.
eVent is significantly more breathable - moisture vapour permeable - than Gore-Tex, if you run cool that won't matter, if you run warm you'll notice the difference. Don't expect miracles though, you'll still sweat. Breathability is around the same level as Gore-Tex Windstopper fwiw.
Personally I like eVent unless it's very cold when I use a Paramo Velez Smock, but then I run on the warm side of things.
I find my eVent jacket (Gill Pro Speed) is 'almost' breatheable enough to wear as a windproof top layer even when it isn't raining. I wore it for a 2.5hr ride yesterday in temperatures of about 5 degrees and didn't overheat/boil in the bag. Anything warmer and I reckon I would get too hot and sweaty.
Peter, you got it about right. As I said, I went for another cheapo.
Alwaysriding.co.uk had the Endura Phoenix for £45 and as it is very similar to the Bryce it's replacing it'll do me fine.
As I said the Bryce lasted 5 or 6 years and was fine for the purpose.
I saw a couple of eVents and Gores in sales, but I can't believe they'll be that much better for the money.
Dez - Ahh good! I can get a Convert then safe in the knowledge we won't look like twin fashion victims next time you come riding in the pouring rain over our way...!
For biking i just use a Montaine Featherlight thing, brilliant little coat and always keeps me warm (once i have got going)
For walking i have a Rab Jacket, that uses eVent stuff, and i have to say it is brilliant! Very breathable, and stops all water getting in, never rode my bike in it though...Guess on a bike i don't really care about getting wet.
And there was me and my mate at Swinley on the weekend - both in Bryce jackets, both on 575s. Luckily all different colours, but still worryingly gay.
Motorcyclists are worse for this kind of thing - I've seen 2 mates on identical Suzukis, with numberplates one digit apart.... seriously....
Agree with the positive comments on Paromo and Event. But much of it comes down to how much you sweat when cycling, unfortunately for me cheap waterproofs are about as much good as a plastic bag
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