On motorbike safe movement as I am in the line of traffic.

Nail on head there Hels. 🙂

You’re part of the traffic, in line with it and at the same speed. So you don’t get people squeezing past all the time. I’m quite assertive on a pushbike, I don’t ride in the gutter, but you can’t ride in the middle of the road and that leaves you exposed to the chancers. I’ve been clipped a couple of times and I’ve lost count of the close calls.

Used to have one. It was fun, had some great times and fond memories. can’t say I mad keen to have another bike, like PP is with cars, can’t get excited by them any more

bassspine – Member

“you don’t know what you are missing.”

true. I got my first moped almost exactly 30 years ago, I’ve owned motorbikes almost all the time since. I’ve had a lot of fun on two wheels in my life. Motorised or not, two wheels good.

Me too. Some fantastic times – A clear run down Lochtayside on a gsrx streetfighter, international high speed runs on the BMW, a Pootle round the coast road north from lochinver The cat and fiddle road before it became popular. Melting down the A6 shap.

Interesing points about the relative safety of motorbiking and pedal biking – I can imagine positives and negatives to both.

Now I’ve never ridden a motorbike, but I imagine you can’t hear surrounding traffic as well as you can on a bike? And since you can’t ride a pedal cycle on motorways I expect people changing lanes into you is more of a risk a motorbike.

Is the incidence of people pulling out infront of you greater or less on a motorbike?

Some spinster librarians, earlier:

I expect people changing lanes into you is more of a risk a motorbike.

Rarely an issue as you have plenty of room to move

Is the incidence of people pulling out infront of you greater or less on a motorbike?

Personally, I think it’s speed related, not dependant on the type of vehicle:
Drivers just seem incapable of judging the speed of a two wheel vehicle approaching from the side.
I feel more vulnerable descending at speed on a bike with V brakes (still easy to achieve 40 odd mph) than on a disc braked mtb with slicks or a well braked motorbike at the same speed.

TJ, what type of BMW? An older boxer or K series really appeals. How were they as a long term prospect?

I would have probably agreed with the OP if it wasn’t for the work of one Massimo Tamburini.

A cliche of cliches, but the appearance of the 916 was a sort of holy shit, what is that…

OMG the resemblance is uncanny !!

I would have totally agreed with the OP, never wanted one, just never really occurred to me except occasionally to tell my wife “at least I don’t have a motorbike” when I’m getting pulled up for my latest snowboarding/mountain biking stunt.

But then a mate who’s leaving the country asked if I’d be interested in buying his…. only the fact that I couldn’t afford it stopped me! 😀

Rarely an issue as you have plenty of room to move

Hmm, I’ve seen quite a few people do it to motorcyclists.

That is, the 20% or so who are riding sensibly. The other 80% are flying between cars at +20mph like nothing else on the road is going to brake or change lane.. some nobber came within inches of my front wing the other day 🙁

Sigh.. sorry.. shouldn’t try to bring the thread down with moaning…

Yes, except that you have a lot more of your own speed to make things a lot worse.

on a motorbike you can accelerate out of and away from trouble in a way you can’t on a pushbike.

Now I’ve never ridden a motorbike, but I imagine

<<yawn>> still, as has been pointed out already, lack of experience or knowledge is no reason not to have an opinion.

What does happen, and happens far too often is this..
yesterday, SO took me for a ccream tea to remote hotel in Highland perthshire, ona road she knows very well, and I’ve (motor)biked along a couple of times. I ddin’t even know the place was there, as it was just beyond a bend where the scenery changes from nice to staggering, the way does in the highland. Trying to pull out to go head home anout a dozen bikes came hurtling round the corner, one after another, each going far to fast to stop had we puilled out and been in the middle of the road. Bikes rely on headlights on and noise to ensure that tother road users notice them, but every single one of those bikes was invisible until it came roound the bend, and the high verge cut the noise out so we never even heard them. That, boys and girls, his how you and your expensive toys end up in pieces scattered across the road. Now, if you want to look like the contents of a butchers shop, that’s ok with me, but i’d be happier if you didn’t involve me in your macho stupidity
When I did a Bikesafe course with the cops (highly recommended) the head bike cop for the region said always assume there’s an elephant sitting int he road just round the corner. there probably isn’t, but all it takes is once. And it doesn’t even have to be an elephant, it could be a deer, or a broken down car or a patch of diesel or another biker who overestimated his own abilities. Too many riders just don’t get this and really do pi55 it up for the rest of us.

I’m quite assertive on a pushbike

And if you ride a motorcycle the same you’ll find that car/van drivers are also more likely to give you room/respect – especially if its a big FO bike – white also helps 😉

some nobber came within inches of my front wing the other day

lighten up FFS, what is your point here? Someone NEARLY touched your precious little car – what if, OMG, what if they’d ACTUALLY touched, oh dearie me trembling at the thought of physical contact

white also helps

try doing Bikesafe the cop says “just ride as you would do normally” so they can follow you and give you a critique on your riding.
oh yeah, right, every tiem you look in the mirror you see a big white BMW with POLICE written on it, I really am going to behave as usual

I had a k100rs and an R1100rs. Both great. The twin more modern and faster.

Teh r1100rs a great bike = sweet as a nut at 50 000 miles when I sold it. I just couldn’t justify owning it – it sat outside my flat untouched for weeks on end but he end. I just wanted to ride my MTB

Motorcycles are safe IMO than bicycles until you overcook it at speed when suddenly half a ton of man and metal makes a real mess of the scenery

Safty is an attitude as much as anything else.

half a ton of man and metal makes a real mess of the scenery

or half a pint of diesel

BBSB – just trying to have a discussion – I know I don’t know about it first hand.

lighten up FFS, what is your point here? Someone NEARLY touched your precious little car – what if, OMG, what if they’d ACTUALLY touched, oh dearie me trembling at the thought of physical contact

Er, I almost had a 70mph accident on a busy motorway. Are you seriously accusing me of being precious? 😯

If he’d clipped me, due to his trajectory he’d have sprawled across the middle lane sliding towards the inside lane. We’d all have had to slam on the anchors probably causing a pile-up since everyone was too close. I’d also have been amazed if he’d avoided going underneath my wheels or someone else’s, and I dont’ want to be the one having to pick bits of body from my wheel arches, thanks.

I am amazed at all these suicidal motorcyclists Molgrips sees.

YEs

I did once, many years ago, have a girl come off her motorbike and slide into my path. I braked hard but still heard a nasty thud and got out to see this girl apparently unconscious under the front of the car with what I took (in the darkness) to be blood all over her and all over the floor and her head was inches from my offside front wheel.

I was convinced she was dead, couldn’t move and was nearly sick on the spot.

It turned out she was just shocked into momentary paralysis and the ‘blood’ was just coolant from the car.

Some 23 years later I still occasionally stop to think what would have happened had I been going that little bit quicker or wasn’t concentrating properly (I started to decelerate when I saw what I thought was a box moving in the road – it turned out to be her backbox flying off as she clipped the car she was overtaking). And I still had to ring my dad and tell him his car was undrivable 🙁

I am amazed at all these suicidal motorcyclists Molgrips sees.

It’s that big electric motor in his car causing a magnetic attraction 🙂

I am amazed at all these suicidal motorcyclists Molgrips sees.

Well, maybe it’s more of a sliding scale of suicidalism 🙂 But I regularly see motorbiking nutters on the M4, and they are WORSE than the car driving ones since they see gaps all over the place and tend to do things like go flying down the gap between two lanes of still moving traffic at double the speed of everyone else…

w I’ve never ridden a motorbike, but I imagine you can’t hear surrounding traffic as well as you can on a bike? And since you can’t ride a pedal cycle on motorways I expect people changing lanes into you is more of a risk a motorbike.

Not a lot of difference with the hearing TBH, unless I’m wearing earplugs. On a pedal cycle I can mostly hear my own heavy breathing….

I’ve rarely had anyone try to change lanes into me, for several reasons

I don’t stay in that position for long: Complete the overtake as fast as possible.
I don’t overtake when it looks like the car I’m overtaking will pull out (Traffic in front of them for instance)
I don’t sit in the same lane all the time, so the chances are that I’d have pulled out from behind the car I’m overtaking in the first place, so they stand a better chance of seeing me.

To be fair, I’d say it’s LESS of a risk on a motorbike, purely becasue you’ll be alongside them for less time…..

Is the incidence of people pulling out infront of you greater or less on a motorbike?

I assume you mean from side roads in town?
More on a bicycle, because people see you and just don’t care, that’s for sure… But discount those incidences and a motorbike is still larger, has bigger lights, and is generally easier to spot.

You do learn how to ride when approaching cars in side roads:
Watch them like a hawk: Eye contact is a good (But not infallible) way to tell.
Watch their wheels: Which way are they going? Are you the only other vehicle around? A car behind you indicating to pull in can distract them for instance, but if there’s no-one on the other side where they’re going, they may just go…
Move around a bit on the road
Cover the brake, get ready to stop. Know how to stop, too. (Yes I do practice braking!)

To be honest I had a woman pull out on me the other morning. I was turning right into the road she was pulling out of.
God knows how she missed seeing me, but I managed to avoid her fairly well and she did wind the window down and apologise.

Of the top of my head that’s the only one I can remember in the last couple of years. I’ve never had a really bad one, that’s for sure

Of course, if you know your stuff, a motorcyclist should know towns and junctions are the most dangerous places. So you should act accordingly and not ride like a twunt when there’s others around. 🙂

I am amazed at all these suicidal motorcyclists Molgrips sees

I know what you mean. He does seem to attract them. 😉
To be fair there are a few around, but a LOT of it is the simple fact that he doesn’t know what it’s like on a bike, what is actually dangerous and what isn’t. The point of reference in a car is sooooo much different from a bike. I’ve now offered twice to show him what I mean, but he keeps turning me down…. 😀

Oh, and he exaggerates a LOT to make a point!

PP

Remember Molgrips has a prius, a caravan and has never ridden a bike. He probably has beige trousers

You do learn how to ride when approaching cars in side roads:
Watch them like a hawk: Eye contact is a good (But not infallible) way to tell.
Watch their wheels: Which way are they going? Are you the only other vehicle around? A car behind you indicating to pull in can distract them for instance, but if there’s no-one on the other side where they’re going, they may just go…
Move around a bit on the road
Cover the brake, get ready to stop. Know how to stop, too. (Yes I do practice braking!)

Almost exactly like riding a pedal bike then, no?

And yes I know it’s a different perspective to driving a car, I can see that when I drive. Mrs Grips hates it when motorcyclists do certain things that I can see are actually quite safe. Don’t forget, I ride a pushbike so I understand that there are different perspectives. I’m not a closed-minded motorist.

However, when I see motorcyclists on the motorway from my car, I am seeing things that they are not. I have seen motorcyclists undertake other cars that begin to fade into their lane when they are in the motorcylist’s blind spot etc etc.

They are guilty of exactly the same things that motorists are (apart from the riding between two lanes of fast moving traffic thing which has to be pretty bloody dangerous due to people deciding to switch lanes suddenly), but the real issue I have is that if someone DOES hit you on a motorway, the consequences are a lot worse.

But I’m rambling – I agree entirely with PP in that you can ride pretty safely on a motorbike on a motorway if you are careful. My question really was about motorway driving specifically, since it’s a whole are of road use that us mere cyclists don’t have to deal with. Basically it’s about people blind spotting you.

Oh, and he exaggerates a LOT to make a point!

I don’t actually, unless I am just being silly.

That episode with the near wing clipping was extremely close, it really was. One of the most dangerous bits of motorcycling I’ve seen.

I’ve been riding my motorbike about a year and a half, in general I feel much safer than when riding a bicycle mainly as people are not in a hurry to over take me when I’m on my motorbike and i have a bit of zip to get away from idiots when needed.

When I did a Bikesafe course with the cops (highly recommended) the head bike cop for the region said always assume there’s an elephant sitting int he road just round the corner. there probably isn’t, but all it takes is once. And it doesn’t even have to be an elephant, it could be a deer, or a broken down car or a patch of diesel or another biker who overestimated his own abilities. Too many riders just don’t get this and really do pi55 it up for the rest of us.

This goes for every road user – my first car accident was on a road I knew well, no junctions or any reasons for traffic to stop, on a drizzly morning there was a queue of traffic just around the corner. Couldn’t stop in time. Oops.

Always be able to stop in the distance you can see clear. And that applies to road cycling too – twisty descents are fun but I’ve seen someone go headfirst into the boot of a car he wasn’t expecting to be there. Stopping from 40+mph can take a while.

So should I take PP up on his offer of a motorbike ride? 🙂

Quite right Simon_g I do like a nice gap between me and the vehicle in front. No problem in my van, I realise now because people can’t see past me. But for some reason on the motorbike, if I leave a nice gap, 20 cars ahead all doing 60ish on an A road, why do drivers have to pass me so they can sit up somebody else’s arse a bit further up the road ? What is that ?? Not dangerous or anything – just seems odd and pointless. And there is naught wrong with my arse, thank you very much.

always assume there’s an elephant sitting in the road just round the corner

Similarly, I subscribe to ‘Fridge Theory’. Guess how that works 😀

These things apply to any driving/riding, not just motorbiking…

molgrips – Member

So should I take PP up on his offer of a motorbike ride?

Yes.

Yes you’re going to laugh. But I have no idea what a ‘lady garden’ is. Or even if it is possible to have half of one.

I must admit I have slight control issues. I don’t mind being driven by someone else if they are decent. But the more they start to ‘enjoy themselves’ the less I do. It’s fun to razz around when you are driving, but it’s the opposite when you are a passenger, I find.

Oh btw Mrs Grips loves motorbiking, I’m sure she’d appreciate the offer of a ride 🙂

always assume there’s an elephant sitting in the road just round the corner

I too was taught this, but a crashed car was substituted for the elephant, as elephants were a bit rare in North Manchester.

I’ve modified it again recently from a tractor to a very angry American female MTB’er in full body armour.
I’ve not broken the speed limit since.

You should do it Molgrips. I doubt PP is a nutter.

People often like to tease me though…

Had motocross bikes from the age of 3 until 11, so i was always going to like bikes i suppose.

Haven’t had a road bike for years now, and can’t see me having another one anytime soon.

i always found them impossible to ride anything other than flat out so its probably for the best that i dont get one now.