27 police injured, three shot.

BBC news article

Seven injured at bonfire party

I can't understand why people get so steamed up over religion. These people must either be mindlessly bored with their lives, and/or just plain stupid!

And why can't they just report it as a religious conflict? It's like an elephant in the room.

Wasn't devolution supposed to have knocked all of this conflict on the head?

It would be nice if we got the full unfettled story too.

So can someone explain what has caused this to all kick off again?

looked like youths mainly to me.. who.. IME.. will get worked up and riot for any reason they can find..

Spongebob – Member

I can't understand why people get so steamed up over religion.

It's about more than that – folk have been brought up on one side or the other, and may have suffered (or feel that they have) for it.

fairly normal July 12th stuff as far as I can see

I guess when they heard the cops had sent all their armoured cars over to catch Raoul Moat they thought "here's our opportunity".

It's nothing to do with religion though, is it? Religion is just a convenient grouping of people and the excuse to fight. It's straight forward 'we don't like your type' and visa-versa on both sides with plenty using it as an excuse for crime.

If you think religion is not relevant read up on the history.

And why can't they just report it as a religious conflict? It's like an elephant in the room.

I dont really understand what you mean by this ?

Even if suddenly everyone in NI agreed there was no god, there'd still be catholic atheists and protestant atheists.

If you think religion is not relevant read up on the history

Clearly religion was relevant in defining the conflict to a very large extent, but whose to say if both everyone in NI was the same religion there would not be Unionist and Republicans still.

As a Northern Irish person I look forward to the insight and wisdom that only Singletrack forum users can shine on this subject.

I know the history, thanks. Read up what I actually wrote. I used present tense, not past. 😉

To me it seems obvious the reason there is a conflict is because one group of people tried to impose their will/power over another group of people.

However they did nt manage to impose their will strongly enough to completely destroy the other culture or completely drain it of its political power.

Ie one side cannot beat the other side. Therefore compromise is needed.

Waderider – Member

As a Northern Irish person I look forward to the insight and wisdom that only Singletrack forum users can shine on this subject.

Enlighten us then! Wasn't that what i asked for at the off?

While their parents are too old for it, they were taught the animosity when they were young. Now they're old enough to act on it.

I'm not a student of history. Facts matter, not opinions. All you'll get here are opinions. Possibly ill educated opinions derived from zero direct experience or knowledge. Or even worse, opinions derived solely from the media.

Over and out.

I can't understand why people get so steamed up over religion.

Not just based on religion.

Protestants = installed ruling classes from England
Catholics = original poorer inhabitants

As far as I understand – please correct me etc etc.

Waderider – Member

I'm not a student of history. Facts matter, not opinions. All you'll get here are opinions. Possibly ill educated opinions derived from zero direct experience or knowledge. Or even worse, opinions derived solely from the media.

Over and out.

That was a non-answer!

I suppose you are off marching now. 😆

These people must either be mindlessly bored with their lives, and/or just plain stupid!

Political and religious radicalism always thrives when people are bored, and people tend to be bored when they are unemployed – N Ireland's troubles are closely related to the economy.

In addition to many of the historical reasons, chaos, and division is great for organised crime.

Protestants = installed ruling classes from England
Catholics = original poorer inhabitants

Not exactly

Actually a lot of the Protestants were kicked out of the English Scottish borders area (Reivers) for being too rough and unruly. For example Carrs, Grahams etc. Ironically some were even Catholic when they went out but on one occasion I was told they were attacked by the local Irish and decided that they would join the other side as it was safer.

You can just see this happening in the leafy suburbs east of the river in Belfast????
Surely religion just defines the tribe you're in when it comes to one, err, "socio-economicly challanged" group finding an excuse to kick the s**t out of another??

catholic atheists and protestant atheists

Erm….

+1 TheBrick.

Surely religion just defines the tribe you're in when it comes to one, err, "socio-economicly challanged" group finding an excuse to kick the s**t out of another??

This is about right. I don't think anyone involved is really concerned about transubstantitation and all the rest of it these days, if they ever were.

I has nothing at all to do with religion. Catholics have been allowed to freely practice their religion in Britain for 200 years now – there are absolutely no issues whatsoever as far as that is concerned. It is about power. The economic power of Ulster Loyalists, the power of Nationalist and Loyalist organised criminals. It is about employment opportunities and housing. It is about political and sovereign power.

And far from not 'reporting it as a religious conflict', the opposite imo is true – too often the media reports it simply as a conflict between Catholics and Protestants. Instead of what it really is, perpetual struggles between antagonistic classes – political and economic struggles.

Reconciliation, welcomed as it is, can only ever be a short term fix. The long term fix can only come through fundamental shifts in political and economic power. Of course a great deal has been achieved in recent years in that respect, but imo only a fool would believe that all of NI problems have suddenly "just disappeared".

And as we can see, there are still those who are willing to exploit the situation and the bitterness which still exists for their nasty misanthropic agenda. If the "Real IRA" (what a **** ridiculous name) really cared about the Nationalist community which they purport to represent, then they would cease immediately their criminal acts and and throw their weight behind political and economic struggles. But of course as we all know, the bunch of psychopaths don't give a toss about the people of NI.

.

Waderider – Member

As a Northern Irish person I look forward to the insight and wisdom that only Singletrack forum users can shine on this subject.

Obviously that is a pisstake, and you presumably resent anyone who isn't Northern Irish having an opinion on NI, but do you extend that to all the British people, including the British government ? Because whilst there is probably a case to be made that long term the British should have little input into the affairs of NI, as long as the British taxpayer is pouring money into NI and the British government is prepared if necessary, to send it's troops over there, I think the British people are perfectly entitled to have an opinion on the situation. Of course it would be hugely useful and constructive if it was an informed opinion, which sadly often isn't the case – but I blame the media to a large extent for that.

IMHO