It’s lucky theres so many shit things happening out there,gives all you wiki/google experts a chance to post your rocket/tanks/guns pics,f*****g morons.

Wahts a rouge zombie? Is that like a red commie pinko zombie 😉

Better Mikey?

So you can be a foreign national resident in a country and still have a right to live in that country. What do you want to describe them as then to save us doing this?

It’s just weird that you’re trying to paint the Russian population of Ukraine as foreign citizens and foreigners.

Pigface – Member

Wahts a rouge zombie? Is that like a red commie pinko zombie

The ones that still maintain some form of brain energy. 😡

It’s just weird that you’re trying to paint the Russian population of Ukraine as foreign citizens and foreigners.

Weird Brilliant. Oh how you persuade me with your use of logic and reason 😉

FWIW move forward 15 years to Scotland.

It’s just weird that you’re trying to paint the English population [ who want to return the country to the UK] of Scotland as foreign citizens and foreigners.

I shall use ethnic russian seeing as you did not say what you would prefer.

Following up on @binners point I would very strongly suspect that the US anti-aircraft missiles captured by ISIS have “safe” mechanisms which prevent them being fired without special codes and have a system which allows the Americans to disable them remotely/block their guidance systems. If you are a weapons designer for the US that is going to be a basic design requirement.

The conclusion here for me is very clear. The airliner was shot down by pro-Russian rebels trained by and with equipment provided by the Russians. They thought they where shooting down a second Ukrainian transport plane, as they posted on Twitter.

The ones that still maintain some form of brain energy.

so you are not one then

I would very strongly suspect that the US anti-aircraft missiles captured by ISIS have “safe” mechanisms which prevent them being fired without special codes and have a system which allows the Americans to disable them remotely/block their guidance systems.

ooh! ooh! this is the scene in the movie when the techy guy called “Brains” says ‘well, I can just hack in through the back door and disable the missile’, and then goes tappity-tappity-tappity on the keyboard and saves the day, right?

FWIW move forward 15 years to Scotland.

It’s more like an Israeli suggesting that Arab Israelis are foreigners and foreign nationals.

The conclusion here for me is very clear. The airliner was shot down by pro-Russian rebels trained by and with equipment provided by the Russians. They thought they where shooting down a second Ukrainian transport plane, as they posted on Twitter.

^^This.
Russia obviously have an agenda here if they are supplying serious hardware (like the system used here) to the ‘rebels’

Putin is indirectly responsible for this event by supplying weapons of this magnitude to another countries internal conflict.

@kona – no this is where the designers of the system allow for the very real possibility of their high tech weapons falling into enemy hands. This is why GPS for example used to have a deliberate random error applied to it so it couldn’t be used by enemy forces to target weapons. ISIS won’t be able to successfully fire US high-tech weapons, just the same as a pro-Russian rebel cannot fire a BUK missile without being allowed to do so by Russia.

Russia obviously have an agenda here if they are……

Surely you haven’t just discovered that ? It has long been clear, before yesterday, that Russia has an agenda to back pro-Russian separatists.

In the same way that the EU/NATO had an agenda when they backed the coupe which overthrew the previous Ukrainian president.

This is a struggle for influence in a region which Russia considers vital. Russia aren’t simply disinterested bystanders, in the same that the EU/NATO aren’t. All sides have an agenda.

this is where the designers of the system allow for the very real possibility of their high tech weapons falling into enemy hands…ISIS won’t be able to successfully fire US high-tech weapons, just the same as a pro-Russian rebel cannot fire a BUK missile without being allowed to do so by Russia.

That was remarkable forward thinking of those Soviet weapons designers in the mid 1970s.

Listening to Samantha Power (U.S. Ambassador to UN) address the UN right now. She’s not exactly holding back – her finger is firmly pointing at Putin.

That was remarkable forward thinking of those Soviet weapons designers in the mid 1970s.

I suspect they might have developed and upgraded the system slightly from the original 1970’s design. Its not hard to disable something so that only those you want to use it, can. Even using 70’s technology

I fully agree with Jambalaya. One way or another, if Russia didn’t want those missiles launched, they wouldn’t have been launched

Er, the Space shuttle and the Soviet version, the Buran, were both designed in the 1970’s. And i think you’ll find they are pretty trick bits of kit. Any engineer smart enough to design a high altitude missile system is easily smart enough to include a VHF FFR to enable/disable their system…..

Anyway, i digress, these systems don’t get fired by accident, their primary radar tracking systems saw this plane coming from some distance, and some one on the ground made a conscious decision to knock it down. It wasn’t a case of someone “accidentally” sitting on the Fire button or whatever!

Some pretty damning audio here. (half way down)

I fully agree with Jambalaya. One way or another, if Russia didn’t want those missiles launched, they wouldn’t have been launched

Question is though, were they *actually* trying to shoot down an civilian aircraft? Or was it mistaken identity?

I would imagine a B-52 or Sentinel would look pretty similar to an airliner at 30,00ft (edit: when viewed from the ground).

I can’t see any conceivable reason why it’d benefit anyone to shoot down an airliner. You’re unlikely to get public opinion on your side by killing 300 innocent people, who’ve nowt to do with the conflict.

I suppose thats why armies have chains of command. This is what happens when you put devastatingly effective hi-tech weaponry in the hands of autonomous ‘militias’ who you’ve little oversight or control over. I don’t think for a second Putin or anyone in Moscow ordered this. But they supplied the weapons and told them to get on with bringing down aircraft, without stopping to think whether the people on the ground would have the skills or experience to do that, without the potential for something disastrous like this happening.

I don’t think for a second Putin or anyone in Moscow ordered this. But they supplied the weapons and told them to get on with bringing down aircraft, without stopping to think whether the people on the ground would have the skills or experience to do that without the potential for something like this happening.

That’s how I see it too, going with what we know have been told.

Not even Putin is that daft.

her finger is firmly pointing at Putin.

She’s certainly Putin him in the frame.

These are the controls for one of the missiles. It’s not exactly point and shoot.

I believe it was a cock-up – they thought it was a Ukraine air force transport plane.

her finger is firmly pointing at Putin.

She’s certainly Putin him in the frame

..but has she called him Bonkers yet?

It’s not exactly point and shoot.

What’s those two sticks on the right for ?

If you give your five year old a handgun and he shoots his little sister dead, who’s to blame?

I think it plausible that Pro-Russian rebels would have been able to fire the weapons – they are battlefield tactical weapons designed to provide Anti Air coverage for tanks and APCs in the field.

While they probably don’t come with a big red button marked “FIRE” I doubt the Soviets deliberately made them complicated to use. After all when when you are providing AA cover for a bunch of tanks you don’t really want your conscript operator to have to go through a 10 minute checklist when an Apache gunship pops up and starts targeting the tank column you are protecting with a Hellfire

If Russia has supplied these weapons then they are ultimately to blame, whether they had a hand in actually operating them or not.

What’s those two sticks on the right for

no idea, I’ve not had any training.

if it was point and shoot there’s only be one stick, surely?

These are the controls for one of the missiles. It’s not exactly point and shoot.

I reckon you press that big red one in the middle

Or a touch screen like an iPad.

if it was point and shoot there’s only be one stick, surely?

Good point. I reckon you would need to dig out the quick start guide for this one.

Richmtb – you dont think ukraine has a hand in the blame – i certainy do.

Diverting the flight off its approved flight plan to an altitude of just above the no fly zone.?

Followed by their act of terrorism comments afterwards ?

Screams of an attempt to drum up international war aids against russia. Thats exactly the opposite of what we need to do. Yes putin needs taken back to earth but teaming up with ukraine is not how to do it!

Diverting the flight off its approved flight plan to an altitude of just above the no fly zone.?

If that’s the case then yes they would share some blame. But as I understand it the airliner was in a well used air corridor?

Is there some evidence that Ukranian ATC diverted the flight?

I expect that the Ukraine will be getting some big heavy noisy presents from uncle sam soon. They’ve been looking for excuses reasons to “help” for a while now.

And on the Russian side of the story – its very much being blamed on the Ukrainians.

http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/

if it was point and shoot there’s only be one stick, surely?

One stick, one button.

I expect that the Ukraine will be getting some big heavy noisy presents from uncle sam soon.

Interestingly one of RT’s reporters resigned after being asked to lie on air about this issue.

Its on the beebs site rich. Kiev requested changws to the approved flight plan on entry to their airspace.

I just realised that drone has an Antonov in the background, no?

Guardian piece with some interesting quotes

Tape recording (believed to be genuine) of between Russians and Rebels.

Russian operators likely to have fired missiles or at least been present, even with training rebels probably cannot operate the kit

link

trail_rat – Member

Followed by their act of terrorism comments afterwards ?

In what way is it not? Even if it was mistaken identity and they thought they were shooting down a ukrainian military plane, it’s still an act of terrorism.