@Tom yes you are right on the Iran / Iraq war in terms of casualties but that was primarily a military conflict I believe (7 years long I think) so whether you say Saddam was responsible for those deaths I don’t know. I think ISIS has killed less people than the Syrian government but is far more dangerous given their pan-region objectives and the number of casualties for which they are responsible may well surpass those in Syria and it could happen fairly soo

Mate, something like 600,000 civilians died in the first round of the Iran-Iraq war. My point however is that I don’t think the Americans can be blamed for the current round of destruction, if anything the level of destruction now is no worse than it was before. The blame for what is going on lies firmly with the Saudis and certain groups within Iraq. You might have a point about the long term danger of Isis though.

A little-publicised bill is currently going through the US Senate which would pave the way for a military conflict with Russia

I think you owe it to us to publicise it just a little more than it has been. Even just providing a link to a deranged article on the website of a tinfoil-hatted racist would do…

EDIT: Here’s one…

Are their BB’s still rubbish?

As I posted IMO the West will stand firm on Israel and Saudi as/when the ISIS threat comes but they are “kicking the can down the road” until that time. In the meantime 100,000’s of people are going to die in sectarian violence.

I think you’re right on that score. ISIS will carry on entrenching its brutal caliphate. Ignoring the supposed government of Iraq. As Sharon was fond of saying… facts on the ground. And the west will do nothing because it can’t. Its installed a divisive sectarian regime which is looking less palatable by the day, so it doesn’t want to give it any more support. The west is indeed washing its hands of Iraq. The Irony of it all being, that they’ve created exactly the terrorist training ground they wanted to destroy in Afghanistan, and might have been able to do if they hadn’t been pointlessly distracted with Iraq. There was one, now there’s two. Result!!!!

But I don’t think ISIS are daft enough, no matter how fanatical they are, to go anywhere near the Israli or Jordanian border. Because the second they do, the Israli air force will unleash something that would make Rumsfelds Shock and Awe look like a provincial fireworks display

There will be plentiful delicious, if slightly greasy, pastry products though.

slightly greasy i can handle as it would mean that they are soft enough to bite…Binners have you tried some of the pasties they bake at the Rawtenstall branch of Greggs? you could knock an Israeli tank out with one!!
if you want to rule the world Binners you need to get your administration in order first…make sure there is a set standard of baking quality/practice for all Greggs outlets!

I personally think Iraq is being has been abandoned

Gonzy – My own personal Sharia law will deal harshly with those responsible for inadequate consistency in sausage rolls

The UN are “extermely concerned” regarding reports that 40 children where killed as a direct result of action by ISIS and that a further 25,000 are at risk.

I was not aware of this history until I read the piece below

BBC News: UN reaction to ISIS

Many Muslims and other groups view Yazidis as devil worshippers
There are estimated to be around 500,000 Yazidis worldwide, most living in Iraq’s Nineveh plains
In August 2007 jihadists attacked Yazidi villages in Nineveh, killing between 400 and 700 people

@gonzy perhaps we can agree on the fact that the invasion of Iraq should never have happened and that the population there is paying a dreadful price for this misguided intervention.

Personally I’d place a good bet, judging by his track record that Saddam would have killed at least as many people as Isis by now.

@Tom, understood

Tom yes you are right on the Iran / Iraq war in terms of casualties but that was primarily a military conflict I believe (7 years long I think) so whether you say Saddam was responsible for those deaths I don’t know. I think ISIS has killed less people than the Syrian government but is far more dangerous given their pan-region objectives and the number of casualties for which they are responsible may well surpass those in Syria and it could happen fairly soon.

for once i find myself actually agreeing with you Jambalaya

but on the point of the Iraq/Iran war…the Iranians had the military funding and support of Russia. this was during the Cold War era so the Americans lent their military support and funding to Iraq. this war lasted 8 years and millions were killed on both sides. both these countries were used as puppets by their backers in a case of one-upmanship. the result was however that they created 2 countries that were now highly trained, armed and funded who had developed a taste for war. once they had served their [purpose to their puppet masters they were left to do as they pleased and in most cases this was to carry out brutal murderous acts against their own people in order to maintain their control over their governments.
due to this the west still has a moral responsibility to try to clear up the mess made by the monsters they created.
however as Binners rightly pointed out they’ve tried this and made a complete balls up of it and have made the situation worse….so i’m not sure what the solution would now be.

sausage?! how dare you offend me you infidel!! 😯

OOPS! erm…. cheese and onion pasty? 😀

OOPS! erm…. cheese and onion pasty?

now we’re talking!! 😆

Not read the whole thread but from the first page it seems like this:

In a thread about Palestine jambalaya goes on and on about Syria and Iraq.
In a thread about Syria and Iraq jambalaya goes on and on about Palestine.

Are you one of those people Israel is paying to talk bollocks on social media?

What grum said with added OMFG

Jam argues about this we start a thread on in and his opening post was

I wonder whether Hamas would side with ISIS

It is beyond parody

@gonzy I really don’t have the strength to follow numerous threads so posting this here. I am sure you’ say this is Israeli lies but here is link for you. I am not expecting any repsonce but FYI. We can continue to discuss ISIS on here.

The Israelis have captured one of the three people they where searching for re: the kidnap as he was trying to cross into Jordon

Suspect captured

It’s all related guys and how the reactions and views of people varying according to the locale of the conflict is relevant, that is my point. Read my posts. I have repeatedly said we need only one Middle East thread.

Anyway, its time for me to move on. I will continue to follow the events and read material from all news and government sources to try and form an informed view. Feel free to “debate” amongst yourselves and agree with each other all the time.

Bike thread only for me.

There is no one thread solution.

Only good faith negotiation towards a two thread solution can ever deliver a lasting peace.

I am happy to indignantly condemn the Syrian violence whilst not actually doing anything effectual about it.

From your own link jambalaya :

The killings set off an escalating cycle of violence and led to a conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants in the Hamas-dominated Gaza Strip that has so far claimed more than 1,900 lives.

Which completely undermines your lie that the Israeli violence in Gaza is connected to rockets and tunnels and has nothing to do with the kidnapping.

I really don’t have the strength to follow numerous threads

Your effort to tirelessly defend Zionism is heroic, although obviously not quite as heroic as those brave Israelis who use tanks and other heavy military equipment to slaughter unarmed civilians.