Jihadi John doesn’t seem to have had much coverage since it was revealed he’d had prior contact with MI5.

The press are in collusion with MI5? “Jihadi John” was getting massive press coverage because it was in line with MI5 policy? However once it was revealed he had ‘prior contact with MI5’ all that changed and the press were instructed not to mention him anymore?

You inhabit a very strange conspricy world JHJ. Clearly it’s disconnected from reality but presumably it satisfies your needs.

We’ve covered DA notices beforehand, I’m not going to go over it all again.

If weapons were being supplied covertly as recently as 2012, when did CIA/MI6 (Saudi Intelligence?) stop supplying weapons?

idiot Frank Gardner

Nick. Curious as to why you think he is an idiot. I have heard him speak at a company presentation and met him in the pub once and he seems a pretty good journalist and a decent bloke.

I usually agree with a lot of what Ernie Lynch says, but I have to disagree on the issues of jews being scared of further ‘pogroms’. They are.

Mostly as he fails as a journalist (as part of the Beeb, not a massive surprise)

He will repeat, almost without flinching, the govt line uncritically. Any assertion that comes from security forces for example is accepted and largely just reproduced by Gardner. Once I heard a report from Andrew Parker’s (DG security Services) speech that was just re-reported as “fact” uncritically by Gardner the same day.

It’s not just Gardner to be fair, most of the foreign BBC correspondents are pretty poor at their jobs (reporting critically the facts, rather than as a mouthpiece of foreign policy)

Understood, perhaps he just agrees with policy ? BBC generally criticized by the government of being too left/too critical

I have to disagree on the issues of jews being scared of further ‘pogroms’.

You agree with jambalaya that Israel ignores international public opinion because doing so could result in Jews ending up in concentrations camps ?

The holocaust is regularly brought by Zionist apologists to justify Israel’s disgraceful and brutal behaviour, fortunately global public opinion is increasingly rejecting this nonsense.

The long serving head of Saudi intelligence, Prince Turki bin Faisal Al Saud who oversaw Operation Cyclone, which led to the rise of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, was a known associate of Osama Bin Laden. He continued as head of Saudi intelligence until just before 9/11.

As an example of how irreverent that may or may not be. ISIS was reported this morning to have carried out a mass execution of Taliban in Afghanistan.

It’s not a ‘them and us’ situation. There are many sides, each with their own agendas. Some of which we suppourt, others we don’t, sometimes we’re supporting a group doing one thing but not their other policies.

The West Bank was in Jordan. Jordan and Israel fought a war and Jordan signed the land over to Israel.

Two sentences of absolute cobblers. The West Bank was never part of the state of Jordan – it was only ever under military occupation (unless you’re an official of the British, Pakistani or Iraqi governments). Its capture by Israel was merely the substitution of one occupation for another.

Understood, perhaps he just agrees with policy ?

perhaps he does, but that’s not his job though. His job should be to offer critical analysis of events, not repeat ‘as fact’ whatever the security forces say (which as a general rule; is what he does)

But as I’ve said, that’s pretty much the role of the BBC these days regardless of the opinion the “idiot right” have of it.

fortunately global public opinion is increasingly rejecting this nonsense

Not true at all. US public opinion is very firmly behind Israel. Even in the UK during the Gaza crises 50% of people felt Israels response was justified given the rocket attacks. It’s a bit like “shy Tories”, the anti Israel campaigners have the loudest voices but are not the most numerous. The US Presidential elections will install a much more pro-Israeli candidate. During the Gaza conflict there where large pro-Israeli rallies in India, that’s a country of a billion people.

I am guessing I speak to more Jewish people than you do @ernie, their fears are very real. I did not say thet where afraid of concentraion camps, i said they have had experience of governments and populations saying they would be safe and they where anything but. They are justifiably worried about increasing violent and intimidatory undertones. Its one reason the property market in Israel is so strong as European Jews make sure they have an exit to Israel if necessary. Despite all the wars around them in israel they feel they will be safer there as the IDF will protect them. They don’t really trust the European Governments. Already 80% of the worlds Jews live in Israel or the US.

As an aside the damage caused to Gaza by the election of Hamas in 2006 after Isreal’s withdraw from the city is pretty clear from a recent World Bank report on Palestine. The differential between West and Gaza grows as the result of the different leadership.

1995 -2015 West Bank GDP per person grew from $1,500 to $2,000. In Gaza it fell from $1,500 to $1,000. People often quote how packed Gaza is, from 1995 to 2015 the population grew from 550,000 t 1.8m. It does seem an usual response to the crises to have such a growth in population and economically it makes people much worse off particularly since the closure of the all important border with Egypt magnified now by the closure by the Egyptians of the tunnels.

@kona, West bank was in Jordan, Gaza in Egypt. Those with a point to make like to obscure the facts to make it sound like the Israelis somehow invaded Palestine, which of course they did not. They where fighting a war against Syria, Jordan and Egypt all of whom wanted to see them wiped from the face of the earth.

Not true at all. US public opinion is very firmly behind Israel.

You do realise that 95.6% of the world’s population isn’t American don’t you ?

I stick with my claim that “global public opinion is increasingly rejecting this nonsense”.

European Jews make sure they have an exit to Israel if necessary……….They don’t really trust the European Governments.

Sorry but………. 😆

Obviously as a Jew yourself you don’t really trust the UK government, all after apart from fighting a bloody war to defeat your enemy what have UK governments ever done for you? So have you got your bolthole in Israel just in case David Cameron orders the rounding up of Jews?

And presumably American Jews share a similar fear which explains why they all want to leave and live in Israel. You just can’t trust the US government if you are a Jew!

Just as well you ain’t black eh ?

You do realise that 95.6% of the world’s population isn’t American don’t you ?

To be fair though, so do the Chinese. There’s 20+ percent of the worlds population with just two countries. 😛

What, there’s more Chinese than Americans?!?!

Well that changes everything – what’s the Chinese opinion of Israel then? That’s obviously what really matters.

Don’t worry. Everything’s going to be allright. Here’s SuperTone…

Again

Yet again. 🙄

failedengineer – Member

I usually agree with a lot of what Ernie Lynch says, but I have to disagree on the issues of jews being scared of further ‘pogroms’. They are.

I’m sure some jews are, in the same way that some catholics think the UK government won’t allow them to be doctors because they’d be forced to perform abortions. People believe all sorts of pish. I suppose the religious are predisposed to believing things that aren’t supported by evidence.

And to be fair, some religious groups do have people pandering to that fear- viz Theresa May promising extra police protection for Jews, at a time when hate crimes against Jews were falling and far lower than hate crimes against muslims, which had just increased by 50%. The Home Office being another group not overly concerned about evidence and facts but full of belief.

Theresa May promising extra police protection for Jews, at a time when hate crimes against Jews were falling and far lower than hate crimes against muslims, which had just increased by 50%.

Hate crimes against Jews are increasingly markedly. I can’t comment on the same against Muslims. I do know no Muslims have been shot dead in the Halal supermarket or killed whilst visiting a museum or Muslim kids shot dead outside their school.

Yes I see increasing numbers of police now outside Synagogues and other Jewish businesses in London. Still nothing like the 20 armed soldiers stationed permanently in each Jewish school or Synagogue in Paris.

@ernie, I think you are, quite deliberately, missing the point. Anti-semitic activity is carried out primarily by the general population, however Jews have a learnt sceptisim of European Governments and their proclamations to protect them. I don’t think so many Jews are leaving the US for Israel, it’s mostly Europeans going there or indeed to the US where they do feel safe.

Have a look at the coleman blog (JHJ gets plenty of info from there) clearly anti-semitic and an attempt to smear along religious/cultural grounds. A bit ironic given the 1400 kids abused in Rotherham and then ignored by local government, police and social workers, a place I suspect with a very tiny if any Jewish community but hey-ho lets find a “link”. Likewise in Oxford.

I would imagine the Jewish community is not putting too much store on Tony Blair delivering anything of value.

The US’s opinion matters a lot for obvious reasons. The smaller our military gets the more the US’s opinion matters. Ernie, you quoted “public opinion” as if you speak for the majority when it seems to me you are very in the minority on most things we debate on here. Fell free to befriend some Jewish people and ask them what they think about anti-semitism and whether it’s on the rise ?

to be fair, if you looked at a one hundred year trend graph of people getting done over in Europe because of their identity, Jews would be high if not highest on the list. it pays to be cautious.

jambalaya – Member

I do know no Muslims have been shot dead in the Halal supermarket or killed whilst visiting a museum or Muslim kids shot dead outside their school.

Or Jewish kids for that matter. Unless Theresa May’s jurisdiction has grown considerably.

Hate crimes against Jews are on the increase throughout Europe, apparently. Given all the anti-muslim feeling, you’d think that was a bit odd. However, far right groups are also on the increase in Europe and they ‘traditionally’ target Jews and blame them for all the world’s ills. I’ve never understood why there is so much anti-Semitism. Unless, of course, it’s due to St Paul and Catholicism. You’ve only to look at the images of Jesus which make him look non-semitic.

@failed – I think hate crimes are on the increase across the board, if you look at studies Muslims are much more unpopular than Jews (typically double the unpopular/popular ratio). However the crimes against Jews tend to be more violent, not least those carried out by Muslim terrorists and/or their suympathisers

ernie you can check the CST annual report on anti-semtic acts, quote from the exec summary;

CST recorded 1,168 antisemitic
incidents in 2014, more than double
the 535 antisemitic incidents recorded
in 2013 and the highest annual total
ever recorded by CST. This is the first time
that CST has recorded more than 1,000
antisemitic incidents in a calendar year.1 This
new record annual total of 1,168 incidents
is a 25 per cent increase on the previous
record high of 931 antisemitic incidents,
which was recorded by CST in 2009.2 The
2013 annual total of 535 antisemitic incidents
was the lowest annual total since 2004 and
represented a 43 per cent decrease from
the 2009 previous record high.

The spike in incidents including highest ever monthly total of 314 was correlated with the conflict on Gaza. People clearly think attacking Jews in the UK is just given the conflict taking place in Gaza.

@Northwind, those incidents where all in France or Belgium. The reason Tersa May has increased security is to try and prevent a repetition here.

The hilarious thing is, is that the increasing attacks on jews throughout Europe is just hardening Zionist resolve.

Ernie, you quoted “public opinion” as if you speak for the majority when it seems to me you are very in the minority on most things we debate on here.

You need to read my posts properly and not make things up 💡

I said : “global public opinion is increasingly rejecting this nonsense”.

It is clear that global public opinion is becoming more hostile towards Israel. You haven’t denied that preferring instead to give what you consider to be an explanation as to why Zionists don’t care about global public opinion.

The very significant change in global public opinion towards Israel during the last 30-40 years is directly connected with Israel’s appalling and brutal behaviour.

You can remain in denial if you wish but it won’t change the facts.

The very significant change in global public opinion towards Israel during the last 30-40 years is directly connected with Israel’s appalling and brutal behaviour.

And Israels appalling and brutal behaviour is a direct result of global public opinion during the 100 hundred years before it.

jambalaya – Member

@Northwind, those incidents where all in France or Belgium. The reason Tersa May has increased security is to try and prevent a repetition here.

And the reason she didn’t increase security after actual arson attacks and attempted bombings on islamic centres right here, is presumably because they couldn’t possibly be repeated? It’s just simple unequal treatment.

Re CST, they do good work but they seem prone to crying wolf. Frinstance they used a facebook post that said “Gaza is a concentration camp” as an example of “serious online antisemitism”. Not the first time criticising the state of israel instantly led to an accusation of antisemitism of course, that’s pretty much SOP for many people but it does undermine their statistical reliability somewhat. It makes more sense to stick with official stats.

@kona, West bank was in Jordan,

It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat a historical lie, it’s still untrue.

It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat a historical lie, it’s still untrue.

Jordon annexed Jerusalem/West Bank after the WW II and this was recognised by the UK. Israel took the area in the ’67 war and Jordan gave up it’s claims to Jerusalem only in 1998. This latter move was political at the request of the Palestinians as they wanted to claim Jerusalem for themselves and they knew Jordan was never going to and to try and facilitate the two state solution proposed in the Oslo accords.

At the time of the ’67 war the West Bank was in Jordan and had been so for almost 20 years.

Jordon annexed Jerusalem/West Bank after the WW II and this was recognised by the UK.

This is rubbish.

Jordan did not annexe the West Bank after WWII^, not least because Imperial Britain was still occupying at the time. Between the end of WWII and Jordanian occupation, there were some pretty important intervening events: not least UN negotiations for the partition of mandatory Palestine between the Jews and Arabs, plebiscites, the UK buggering off back to Europe, the proclamation of the State of Israel and Al Nakba!

Jordan occupied the West Bank only after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and it annexed it only in 1950. moreover its annexation was rejected by all neighbour states (including the Arab League and Israel alike!) and recognised only by the UK (which wasn’t a major power in the region and had no skin in the game), Kuwait (an obscure emirate), Iraq (a basket case) and Pakistan (an irrelevance half a world a way). no-one else recognised the West Bank as being part of Jordan.

Jordan’s occupation of the West Bank lasted only a bit longer than the US occupation of Iraq.

I’m not sure whether your consistently woeful engagement with historical fact on this issue is a cause of your wrongheadedness or just a rhetorical device…

^ okay, well only in the sense that the US invaded Iraq *after* WWII.

Obviously, continued support and supply of arms by Western Governments to regimes with questionable human rights such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and others shows our leaders display a remarkable degree of hypocrisy and deceit.

With that in mind, back on topic with ISIS, this is an interesting read:

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/ex-intel-officials-pentagon-report-proves-us-complicity-in-isis-fabef96e20da

According to leading American and British intelligence experts, a declassified Pentagon report confirms that the West accelerated support to extremist rebels in Syria, despite knowing full well the strategy would pave the way for the emergence of the ‘Islamic State’ (ISIS).

Mention of the RAND Corporation is also of interest given their connections to SITE intelligence, which is often involved in the release of ISIS footage (including the pics in the article at the start of the thread)

@kona 1948 is after WW2, certainly more shortly after than the US invasion of Iraq ! Jordan certainly regarded the West Bank as Jordanian and the Palastinian Liberation Organisation was founded to fight the Jordanians who ran the city. The Jordanians ruled the West Bank for 19 years, isn’t that longer than the US has been in Iraq btw ? As I said the West Bank was in Jordan and Gaza in Egypt at the time of the ’67 war. Seems an incontrovertible truth to me.

@jhj – You are right time to get back to ISIS. I had a look at the link, I have to say not so interesting to me. I would imagine the US was aware that a civil war in Syria could create a situation where Islamists could flourish in any vacuum. Article is trying to make a lot more of it than that though.

This map is interesting (from Telegrapgh) and to me shows it’s inevitable there will be further IS attacks in Europe given the number sympathisers throughout the continent. For every individual who travels to Syria there must be many more still here.

Jamby and the telegraph is right, we must all live in constant fear of being potentially killed by EVIL MUSLAMIC TERRORISTS, its inevitable that theyll attack us after all!

Yes, silly me, I forgot the mosques are all crammed with BLOODTHIRSTY MEDIEVAL WAHABISTS that warm and friendly weapons purchasing allies SAUDI ARABIA have stoked into a FRENZY!!

That said, back on the subject of the link I posted earlier, Nafeez Ahmed certainly seems to know his stuff…

That Telegraph map seems to not have Syria or Iraq on it..?

A fair point Nick but I imagine trying to get the numbers of fighters who have joined ISIS from there would be difficult.

Kimbers I didn’t say we had to live in constant fear, those are your words. I worked in London all through the IRA bombing campaigns, I traveled to Saudi when tensions and unrest where very high around the same time a Frank Gardener was shot. I didn’t live in constant fear but I was aware and I was cautious. We should expect an ISIS inspired attack in the UK, the security forces are working on that basis.

In France today there is a trial of 14 (I think) Islamic extremists who where members of a banned group who had guns, a bomb manual and a list of Jewish supermarkets and other sites in a file called “targets.txt” (French equivalent of course). The group claims to have firebombed Charlie Ebdo in the past. We should expect similar groups exist in the UK. We shall see what emerges when those recently arrested are tried.

A fair point Nick but I imagine trying to get the numbers of fighters who have joined ISIS from there would be difficult.

But they can give numbers of fighters from Somalia and Libya despite those countries being in chaos and not having functioning governments, how did they manage that?

And what is about Belgians which makes them 4 times more likely to fight for ISIS than Brits ?

Timbuktu. Watched this excellent film last night, Oscar nominated and Cannes festival film entrants about life under ISIS in Mali.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CspcDYQ-SiY[/video]

ernie, yes you are right they could make an estimate. If you add up those numbers you get a range of 17,000 to 19,500 roughly. So I understand there are about 30,000 IS fighters so that’s 10,000-13,000 from Syria and Iraq or approx 1/3rd. Belgium, my guess is it’s the makeup of the the Muslim community perhaps with a more African bias ? Jihadi John wanted to go to Somalia originally, I get a sense the degree of radicalism from that community is even higher.

Wonder if Timbuktu has had the plot manipulated by military think tanks such as the RAND corporation, like The Interview did?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPHePuJQgec[/video]

(to be honest, that guy’s commentary isn’t the best, reading this may be a better bet: http://www.systemiccapital.com/the-interview-plot-crafted-by-rand-state-dept-over-sony-objections/)

How much of the fuss around The Interview and North Korea was a publicity stunt?

Back on topic, would there even be problems with Jihadists in Mali if not for CIA/MI6 destabilization of Muslim countries, fueled by Saudi funded wahabism?

Back on topic, would there even be problems with Jihadists in Mali if not for CIA/MI6 destabilization of Muslim countries, fueled by Saudi funded wahabism?

Yes definitely