I agree they do move with the times but at a glacial pace and it takes time to affect that through culture. So I’m not holding religion responsible per se, I would like to hold blind faith and fundamentalism to account though.

I agree, religion is not the cause of all this but people who use a religion as an excuse to do evil are.
And I think you are right that there will be no end to all this. Sad.

I would like to hold blind faith and fundamentalism to account though.

I dont think you can have this without religion personally
Not these days anyway.
Western liberals are a little less willing to die for their beliefs [ though we may be just as willing to kill sadly]

Air strikes to take out any heavy weaponry they may have, then help the Kurds to stave them off.

They are vile, medieval thugs and we need to help civilised people (of whatever race or religion) to fight medieval barbarism. This is not the ‘west’ versus Muslims, this is about civil versus barbaric. There is a clear difference and the ‘west’ ought not to shirk its responsibilities here.

This is not the ‘west’ versus Muslims

Agreed, Islamism vs the non believers would be more accurate.

and the ‘west’ ought not to shirk its responsibilities here.

Are the west to blame for jihad in China and Africa as well?

So the beheading of James Foley was truly disgusting and evil, and it seems to be the doing of a British Jihadist.
Now the US are preparing to go into Syria to some degree. How ironic, first arm them then go and fight them!
Now there’s talk of trying to get Al Bashir to ‘help’.
Crazy or what?

loddrik – Member

George W Bush. What a guy. What a plan.

This ^^^

American and British foreign policy IMO has made the world a far more dangerous place. Millions of lives lost. Billions of tax payers pounds spent (at great cost to public services) And for what? A better life for the few.? Certainly not for any humanitarian reasons. Seems to me, a lot of terrorists wear suits and ties.

ps. Hope this does not prompt a visit from the guys with the shades and wires coming out of their ears.

So the beheading of James Foley was truly disgusting and evil, and it seems to be the doing of a British Jihadist.

Actually it has been suggested that the video was heavily edited and the Brit merely made the speech for propaganda purposes while the actual beheading was carried out by someone else.

Personally I doubt whether a university graduate from London with no experience of war zones or killing people is of much use in that respect. I suspect their duties are restricted to guarding prisoners and making propaganda videos and cups of coffee. ISIS will have far more experienced and effective killers among Chechen and Arab fighters who have known killing, death, and war, most of their brutalised lives.

Did you know Assad was nominated for a knighthood?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i00HpR_uu3g[/video]

I seem to remember that Assad was once thought to be a bright individual who was opposed to conflict and violence…..

But now everyone thinks he’s stupid and fancies a ruck ?

No but that might explain the nomination.

The Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu went beyond the nomination stage and got his knighthood from the Queen, there was never any doubt that the geezer was an arsehole.

Awarding these honorary knighthoods is merely playing international politics and provides little clue on the character of the individual other than he meets with the approval of the British government.

Good point.

Personally I doubt whether a university graduate from London with no experience of war zones or killing people is of much use in that respect.

I can’t see how having a degree would handicap someone form cutting off a head, or shooting bound prisoners in the back.

But lack of experience of war zones or killing people might.

Can’t see it. They’re obviously highly motivated to get themselves over there, unlike the locals who probably don’t have many options.

It’s not like they’re fighting western troops.

Yeah, but they’re fighting Kurds who are tough bastards and expert in Guerrilla warfare. Just because they’re not western……etc etc

They’re obviously highly motivated to get themselves over there

I don’t think an ability to get yourself to Iraq necessarily equates with an ability to cut someone’s head off. Specially if your experience of life has been relatively secure and violent free.

I don’t think an ability to get yourself to Iraq necessarily equates with an ability to cut someone’s head off. Specially if your experience of life has been relatively secure and violent free.

You seem to be suggesting that foreigners are pre-disposed to hacking of heads and a British upbringing makes it somehow more difficult? Hacking of heads is universally unusual, not a life skill, even in the middle-east.

You seem to be suggesting that foreigners are pre-disposed to hacking of heads and a British upbringing makes it somehow more difficult? Hacking of heads is universally unusual, not a life skill, even in the middle-east.

LOL, Ernie you racist.

To calmly cut some ones head off with a knife, you have to be warped beyond repair.

I used to work with someone years a go who tried to show me a video on his phone of some one cutting a pigs head off.
I pushed him away, and he continued to watch it laughing, then when it was finished told me it was sick .

I said your **** sick. But wonder how hard it would be to condition someone with normal feelings of compassion and empathy to become a blood thirsty sicko.
I am sure some people are born that way, but if you think of what went on in the coliseum in Ancient Rome for instance I think it must be a taste that can be aquired.

Slightly off topic ,
During one of the golf wars, I saw a photo of a us soldier sat on a transporter plane with “kill em all”scribbled on his helmet. And said to a friend that’s your problem right there, that is why there is so many friendly fire incidents.

He said what would you write on your helmet, I said “tell me which way to shoot”.

Playing devil’s advocate here, so don’t judge me too harshly:

Say you’d held your dying 4 year old daughter in your arms, as she screamed her last breaths after having her legs blown off by an allied drone strike.

Imagine the despair and hatred that would forge into your soul.

Obviously, this guy being British, is less likely to have experienced these things 1st hand, but being surrounded by men with this kind of background and legitimate venom, being young and impressionable with something to prove could be the motivation required for such graphic acts of violence.

On that note, just because a drone operator is remote from the action, it doesn’t make them any less barbaric; you could argue it’s more cowardly.

Imagine the despair and hatred that would forge into your soul.

Obviously, this guy being British, is less likely to have experienced these things 1st hand, but being surrounded by men with this kind of background and legitimate venom, being young and impressionable with something to prove could be the motivation required for such graphic acts of violence.

On that note, just because a drone operator is remote from the action, it doesn’t make them any less barbaric; you could argue it’s more cowardly.

Good post, killing from afar allows you to do these things more easily with less psychological impact for the killer. However, this does mean that a drone operator is probably a more normal functioning member of society than someone who beheads a prisoner. It’s been argued that western intervention in Iraq (Afghanistan is less black and white as AQ’s infrastructure was wiped out) created more terrorists because of precisely the point you raised.

I guess the only marginal difference comes down to what the justification is for your actions and whether you actually intended to blow a four year olds legs off.

However, this does mean that a drone operator is probably a more normal functioning member of society than someone who beheads a prisoner.

I disagree, give me the remote control and I would drop the bombs on Isis while they were in the act of attacking a city full of innocents.
But I would not behead them as I would not seek ceremony or pleasure in the act of killing them.
I feel unhappy about treading on a snail or chopping a worm in half with the shovel.
But would see stopping Isis as a job that needs doing and not a blood sport .

If you could kill 5000 people with a drone and 70% of them are probably guilty

OR

behead Tony Blair and save 50,000 lives in the future due to yet to be secured arms sales

what would you do?

I would not behead anyone as I am not a sick bastard.
Drone strikes are on convoys of armed men or artillery or generally military hardware.

Isis has taken fruitloopery to the extreme and the fact you can not realise this and condemn them and
there actions alone without trying to bring up someone else’s atrocities as some sort of defence.

I disagree, give me the remote control and I would drop the bombs on Isis while they were in the act of attacking a city full of innocents.
But I would not behead them as I would not seek ceremony or pleasure in the act of killing them.
I feel unhappy about treading on a snail or chopping a worm in half with the shovel.
But would see stopping Isis as a job that needs doing and not a blood sport .

Errr, you are kind of agreeing with me Chip. Beheading someone with a knife is very different psychologically to hitting the red button whilst looking at a pixelated FLIR image.

However, I’m not sure which one is scarier. Personally I think it’s the latter, as it allows essentially good men to kill more easily.

chip – Member
I would not behead anyone as I am not a sick bastard.
Drone strikes are on convoys of armed men or artillery or generally military hardware.

Or weddings/middle lane hoggers etc

Sorry I imagined a not. Speed reading error.

Don’t call me Ernie 😀

Whilst I appreciate propaganda comes from both sides, I’d say the fact that the U.S. and UK are reticent to discuss the ongoing drone strikes (which are somehow not classified as war) shows some level of guilt, whereas the footage displayed here seems pretty genuine and not attempting to hide anything, though some of the figures may be up for research and debate:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NhULIJ4ZPg[/video]

If they are economic with the truth about this, just how much of the news can we trust?

Don’t start me off again,I must have been hypnotised some where along the line and cruise control set as a trigger word as, as I drove twenty junctions around the m25 on Saturday in the middle lane I remembered cruise control and broke out in to another uncontrollable fit of laughter And nearly had to pull into the inside lane.

as I drove twenty junctions around the m25 on Saturday in the middle lane

😀

Chip, the motoring troll.

Chip is Jeremy Clarkson and I claim my roaring V8 and right to voice annoying opinions with impunity due to my big hitter mates in Chipping Norton.

Bloody Hell!! Chip = Chipping Norton, I think I might have actually caught Clarkson in the act!

😆

I have a conspiracy theory for you jivehoney.

The only one missing is blonde the dog.

Is RT in that link Russia today, if so I would take more stock JBJs ramblings.

if you asked one of the ISIS loons, would you want to

A) kill a number of people with a surgical drone strike

Or

B) dream up the most barbaric way to kill people, then hack their heads off with a blunt kitchen knife, then broadcast it on YouTube to the infidel

What do you reckon the answer would be?

What, are you telling me Hitler has a bus pass, and thanks to Nazi Experiments (Look into Frank Olson, who worked with Nazi scientists after the War on CIA’s MK ULTRA program and died mysteriously(Codename Artichoke, I kid you not)) hasn’t aged any?
Does he own shares in Werthers originals? What about Elvis? Is he grinding his replacement hips in a nursing home somewhere?

Anyhow, back on topic and a bit closer to conceivable realities: the vid has a fair whack of RT footage; as I said, propaganda comes from both sides, but just because our own state funded media (which has historic links to the intelligence services and given the election process of the BBC Trust, is perhaps not as impartial as we might be led to believe) doesn’t report on things, doesn’t mean they’re not true…

if you asked one of the ISIS loons, would you want to

A) kill a number of people with a surgical drone strike

Or

B) dream up the most barbaric way to kill people, then hack their heads off with a blunt kitchen knife, then broadcast it on YouTube to the infidel

What do you reckon the answer would be?

Don’t be fooled by the surgical strike thing with drones…

but anyhoo:

You know how ISIS decapitate and crucify many of their enemies; well, in so doing, they may actually be reducing the number of deaths overall: by committing such barbaric acts, they scare the crap out of their enemies, which means less will engage them in combat and as a result, there may be less casualties.

I’m still really curious where they got weapons from in the 1st instance, before they captured anyone else’s…

I used to buy the sun every day without fail.
But stopped after the whole phone hacking business , especially the phone hacking of milly dowlers phone I found disgusting and have not bought a copy since or any news paper , I will read them for free in the cafe or pub but won’t give them my money .

I also untill the recent cliff debacle would have the BBC news channel on in the background at home, but not since.
I am fully aware of news agencies and the way they work.

But the information that leads me to believe Isis is abhorrent is coming from them through social media.
And not the work of the wests propaganda .

You know how ISIS decapitate and crucify many of their enemies; well, in so doing, they may actually be reducing the number of deaths overall: by committing such barbaric acts, they scare the crap out of their enemies, which means less will engage them in combat and as a result, there may be less casualties.
I’m still really curious where they got weapons from in the 1st instance, before they captured anyone else’s…

These are people who kill people because they don’t share there religious ideology.

They are not chopping off heads to save lives.

I have a conspiracy theory for you jivehoney.

Loling at that photo. I can’t find it, but I read an interview with Bruno Ganz once where he went out in Bavaria to a Wagner concert looking like Hitler – causing someone to crash their car and another to faint at the entrance to the venue.