Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)
  • Is this the final nail in the coffin for Lib Dems as a UK party?
  • athgray
    Free Member

    I know they are in the deep hole at the minute, but does this result put the Lib Dems so far away from the pulse of the UK public as to make it impossible to climb out?

    This is a big fall from grace since 2010. I think it is a shame, and they have been hit far harder than they deserve.

    (Or does anyone care?)

    torsoinalake
    Free Member

    Who?

    andyl
    Free Member

    ^ WHS

    I actually had a split second when I thought “oh yeah, they still exist”

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    This should be their time, but they are lost. I think the flak they took was unfair but that’s a minority view admittedly.

    But all three are a complete mess at the moment at a time when leadership is required. Quite sad really.

    athgray
    Free Member

    I think saying ‘who?’ Sums up the hole they are in. Nick Clegg and his party were at their zenith just 6 years ago.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    does this result put the Lib Dems so far away from the pulse of the UK public as to make it impossible to climb out?

    In my neighbouring borough Sutton, which is classic LibDem territory – predominately affluent middle-class, and which the LibDems held until last year, they voted to the leave the EU on Thursday.

    WTF? Seriously, WTF? I’m so shocked that I’ve checked the results about 6 times. I can’t see them re-winning the seat back anytime soon.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    teamhurtmore – Member
    This should be their time, but they are lost. I think the flak they took was unfair but that’s a minority view admittedly.

    But all three are a complete mess at the moment at a time when leadership is required. Quite sad really.

    I share your opinion. The Lib Dems were vilified for reneging on their tuition fee promise, but my goodness did they do some good things whilst in the coalition. Sadly, the one man that the Remain campaign needed for this was an untarnished Nick Clegg. A proper Euro MP who fully understood the benefits of the EU and could articulate them to almost any audience willing to listen.

    I think this could be a time for the Lib Dems. A rallying cry to stay in the EU offering an alternative to Labour and the Conservatives.

    I did then and will continue to vote LD.

    twistedpencil
    Full Member

    Has anyone heard or seen Tim Fallon in 2016? I think he got stuck around October 2015 and is living in some sort of Groundhog Day, but we’ve all moved on and forgot about him…

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    The Lib Dems were vilified for reneging on their tuition fee promise

    Although reneging on their tuition fee pledge epitomises the betrayal many LibDem voters felt, focusing solely on that issue is an oversimplification imo.

    Many LibDem voters specifically voted LibDem in their constituencies to keep the Tories out. Therefore they were always going to feel betrayed by the LibDems forming a full coalition government with the Tories.

    The LibDems came to the aid of the Tories in their hour of need. The Tories failed to get sufficient support from the British people to form a government so Nick Clegg stepped in and propped them up.

    It was always going to end badly for the LibDems, and yet they were in complete denial right to the morning of the last election.

    Nick Clegg displayed the same arrogance as Tony Blair, despite what everyone was telling him (and what election results during the coalition government period were also telling him) he thought he knew better.

    mechanicaldope
    Full Member

    I was talking to my wife about the lib dems yesterday and neither of us knew who their leader was. After we looked it up we were still none the wiser really. Both of us have voted lib dem in the past.

    oldtalent
    Free Member

    Yes utterly irrelevant, as are the labour party.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    No one’s voting Labour either ?

    I guess the only relevant party is the Tory Party then.

    That simplifies matters.

    andytherocketeer
    Full Member

    /me googles…

    oh yeah I remember them. thought cleggy was still leader.

    more stealthy flying under the radar than tony blair after he got made middle east ambassador

    athgray
    Free Member

    The LibDems came to the aid of the Tories in their hour of need. The Tories failed to get sufficient support from the British people to form a government so Nick Clegg stepped in and propped them up

    It didn’t feel that way to me ernie. I did not get the impression that the Tories were desperate for help and could have coped with a minority government. I thought that having been approached, if the Lib Dems were to go into coalition it would have to be with the party that got the largest share. Perhaps the Lib Dems were naive and thought they could put a greater stamp on the coalition than they could in reality.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I did not get the impression that the Tories were desperate for help and could have coped with a minority government.

    How? The numbers didn’t stack up.

    And they certainly couldn’t have got their juicy right-wing titbits through, like privatizing Royal Mail and the bedroom tax.

    Nick Clegg and the LibDems saved the Tories their bacon.

    dragon
    Free Member

    Tim Fallon was on BBC this morning essentially just havin a rant at voters for being stupid for voting to leave. It might be his true feelings but it’s hardly a great strategy to get voters to move back to the LD party.

    monde
    Free Member

    Tim Fallon alienated half of the population this morning by insulting them all and showed a complete lack of understanding about why people voted out. The problem he has is that ranting like that will lead to niche support which makes them irrelevant.

    irc
    Full Member

    Tim Fallon alienated half of the population this morning by insulting them all

    Not alone there. A big turning point was Gordon Browns “bigoted woman” comment when voters realised that for many politicians thought that they were bigots and racists if they disagreed with them.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    50% of the voting population would be a landslide victory for any political party. He should continue in the same vain!

    irc
    Full Member

    50% of the voting population would be a landslide victory for any political party. He should continue in the same vain!

    It doesn’t work that way. He still has to fight for a share of the 48% he hasn’t insulted. It would be some going to reduce the 7.8% Lib Dem vote in the 2015 election but looks like Tim might do it.

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    Lib Dem party membership is at one of its highest levels and saw a healthy increase after the last election. They just don’t have many mp’s thanks to our ludicrous election system.

    And it’s Tim Farron…

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    Tim still doesn’t get post truth politics does he?

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    It doesn’t work that

    Joke….

    ctk
    Full Member

    Tuition fees, NHS reforms, bedroom tax etc all for a PR referendum which they royally cocked up.

    twistedpencil
    Full Member

    The fact I got his name wrong is more a problem for him than me, I’d like to think I know who a fair few of the politicians are representing this country, he’s slipping off the radar of fast along with his party it’s like they’ve shut up shop.

    The country is a poorer place with their decline but they need to pull themselves together and find a credible voice, it should be a good time for them with the gap between left and right opening up, but they are being punished for their part in this chasm forming.

    grantway
    Free Member

    The Final nail was when they joined coalition with the Conservatives
    It will take if not years for anyone to take notice of them. : (

    ferrals
    Free Member

    The funny thing is a strong lib dem presence in parliament is what we need right now and also, to my mind, the party ideology is closely aligned with the majority of Britain as the other parties become more extreme.

    The lib dens were unfairly punished for their part in the coalition, but there’s no use crying about that, they need to work harder. I’m planning on joining the party in the light of this referendum.

    I do worry labour dissarray and Scotland probably leaving the United Kingdom will end up with there being a one-party system of governance for many years to come unless we get electoral reform but that won’t happen

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    The lib dens were unfairly punished for their part in the coalition, but there’s no use crying about that, they need to work harder.

    Yep, for all of it they copped a lot of abuse and most of the blame while the tories got more votes at the next election. Funny old world.

    It’s always harder to step up and try than to sit and complain from the other side. In most places where 1 party government is the norm a minority partner will carry the can, but in other places where coalition is the norm it all goes much better. UK voters have long memories which is stupid really, don’t link Thatcher to the current tories or Blair to the current labour party. Pick them on what they are doing today. I’m guessing most people at work are not judged on what they did in first school?

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    Interestingly electoral reform may actually be closer due to the outcome of the referendum.

    Farage in particular has a lot to gain from it and may be in a position to push for it.

    It pains me to say it but UKIP may yet serve a useful purpose.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    All political parties fail to deliver on a promise. The Lib Dems got vilified for tuition fees, the Tories let them take all the flak for their share of austerity leading to the disastrous election showing, as much as anything because voters failed to understand how compromise coalition government works.

    Then we saw a loan Tory government in action.

    Agree the Remain campaign could have used Nick Clegg.

    I fear that they are too far gone to offer a more balanced alternative than the two main cockwombles at present. But Liberal politics has been around quite a bit longer than Labour, it will struggle on somehow.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    For context I’ve typically voted tory up until the last election, where I spoiled my ballot.

    I actually have a lot of respect for clegg, he new he was committing suicide buy going in to coalition with the conservatives, but he did and he had a great influence for the good in a very bad position, despite being labled a traitor by his own party.
    He had more integrity than all other politicians put together.

    If farron is anything like him then I can se a lib dem resurgence, and that can only be good, Labour is a complete shambles and the Tories are approaching Nazi levels of crazy.

    ahwiles
    Free Member

    The irony of Nick Clegg’s downfall is that a vote for the Lib-dems was a vote for a graduate tax – it was one of his policies.

    and arguably, that’s what we got. (Repayments based on a percentage of income over a reasonable threshold).

    In my humble opinion, the LD’s weakness is that they’re crap at playing the game of politics. Which could be taken as a compliment…

    (Before anyone had even heard of Cleggy, student loans were high enough that most graduates would never clear their debt. Raising fees made zero difference to the amount repaid by most graduates. BUT, they did raise the threshold, which reduced the monthly repayments. I would happily accept an additional £24k debt on my SLC account in return for a reduction of £50/month = £600/yr = £6000/decade = £18000+ before my debt is written off)

    slowoldgit
    Free Member

    Did anyone in England follow the Alistair Carmichael court case? Other than me, that is. Described as a ‘blatant liar’ by the judge and utterly unrepentant: an example of a career politician.

    He’s the last remaining Lib MP in Scotland, and may be the last such for a long time.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    The lib dens were unfairly punished for their part in the coalition

    Most LibDem supporters decided to stop supporting the LibDems, what’s unfair about that?

    It’s the job of a political party to please its own voters not some other party’s voters.

    And it’s certainly not the job of LibDem supporters to please the LibDem Party.

    the LD’s weakness is that they’re crap at playing the game of politics.

    I think you might be on to something there. They appear to be clueless about what their job in Parliament actually entails. Although they did get into the hang of being driven around in shiny ministerial limousines.

    .

    They just don’t have many mp’s thanks to our ludicrous election system.

    So the reason they went from 57 MPs to just 5 MPs in 5 years is because of “our ludicrous election system”, it’s nothing to do with the fact that three quarters of LibDem voters, ie, 4.42 million people, stopped voting for them?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    It’s the job of a political party to please its own voters not some other party’s voters.

    And it’s certainly not the job of LibDem supporters to please the LibDem Party.
    and some would say the job of a politician and political party to try and deliver the best they can for both their supporters and the country as a whole. Pragmatism is lost on the ideological followers

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I swapped from Libdem to Labour, they’ve had their day (as a Parliamentary Party), although still have 100s of local councillors.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    and some would say the job of a politician and political party to try and deliver the best they can for both their supporters and the country as a whole.

    Well I guess it depends on what kind of society you have, that system works quite well in a dictatorship.

    However here in the UK we have an adversarial system with multiple political parties. The people elect politicians from political parties to represent them in Parliament.

    Unsurprisingly they get a tad annoyed when they don’t do their job. Sometimes they even stop voting for them.

    It all sounds really quite fair to me.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Well I guess it depends on what kind of society you have, that system works quite well in a dictatorship.

    Yep it does can it could work well outside of one.

    However here in the UK we have an adversarial system with multiple political parties. The people elect politicians from political parties to represent them in Parliament.

    Yep my way or no way

    Unsurprisingly they get a tad annoyed when they don’t do their job. Sometimes they even stop voting for them.

    I’d rather they achieved something rather than nothing, see how the US is going where it’s a continuous spoiling process.

    Perhaps it’s time to accept the system isn’t working well and could be improved

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    The Italians provide an excellent European example of coalition governments – they’ve had over 60 since the end of WW2.

    I have seen no evidence of greater voter satisfaction in Italy, or any other benefits for that matter.

    In fact the Italians are so sick and tired of the shenanigans, corruption, and intrigue, of coalition politics, that they appear to have given up and simply vote for whoever amuses them the most.

    I certainly don’t want to go down the Italian road of “politicians working together”.

    AD
    Full Member

    I was rather hoping all the moderate labour and tory MP’s would defect to the Lib Dems…

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