Looking for a new AM frame and my top 4 are a Butcher, 5,Heckler and Zesty/Froggy.

My three full sus frames to date have all been single pivots, Jekyll, Bullit and Prophet so one side of me fancies a change but as i’ve never found them lacking so the other side says why change.

I ride in the Peaks so bearing numbers/life is a consideration but other than that that’s my only issue.

So if i make a change will i notice a difference?

I guess the butcher being a fancy single pivot may well be a good compromise but is it worth the extra money over a heckler?

ta

not all 4-bars are the same.

the biggest difference i notice is brake-jack – this is a fundamental feature of single-pivot bikes.

some people like brake-jack, as it causes the back end to compress during braking, some people like the way that this balances brake-dive at the front.

even some 4-bars have brake-jack.

personally, i don’t like it, your opinion may vary…

a simple single-pivot will tend to be less sensitive to small stuff than something with a linkage – at least, this is what the maths would suggest.

try some different bikes, take the time to fiddle with them to set them up properly, and see what differences you can detect.

some people claim not to notice brake-jack, i don’t know how.

but then, i can’t honestly say i’ve ever noticed pedal-feedback, which is something other people get quite worked up about.

I tried this, having ridden single pivots for some time. I missed the really lively feel you get from a single pivot. I found the glued to the ground feeling a bit boring, although no doubt it was very effective. So I am now back on single pivot, its most fun for me, I can set it up how I like it.

My advice is to demo a few other multi pivot bikes and see what you think. Its personal preference at the end of the day.

thanks, i suppose as i don’t know any different i’ve never noticed that as being a problem

Take the Froggy off that list now. It’s a heavy freeride bike really.

Unless you meant Spicy, in which case leave it on.

As you’re in the Peaks, why not take a couple of test rides from 18bikes. They have a good demo fleet and there are all sorts of designs in there.
I just think it’s one of those things that you’re not really going to get a satisfactory answer to on a forum.

Personally, I’ve ridden about 5 different suspension designs and prefer the ones with pedalling neutrality built into the frame. I ride a Maverick ML75, but I also liked the Blur and Intense 5.5. I didn’t like the Heckler or the Yeti 575 as overall cross country bikes for me.

Ah … following on from the butcher thread – yes, go test some and let me know when you’re done 😉 I’ve always ridden single pivots too, although have sat on other designs, so interested to know what you think. FWIW I like the brake-jack and I kind of know where I am with a single pivot …if you know what I mean… 😯

thanks,

well i much prefer a more lively ride so that’s something i’ll consider

yes sorry, i did mean the spicy

You’re right i do need to demo some bikes, 18 haven’t got a butcher but they do have nickel

well i much prefer a more lively ride

Definitely demo the lapierres then. This is their key attribute IMO.

I managed to try single pivots from Orange and santa cruz, also a nomad and a zesty and a spicy when nwmbc did their demo day. The lapierres felt a lot like a hardtail on the climbs and flats. The nomad felt fantastic on the downhill bits, but was slightly heavy. The lively ones were the heckler and the five, they just felt light and perky
It’s a hard choice. Loved the nomad and the lapierres but they didn’t feel as sprightly as the heckler and five

just realised the lapierre’s are out as i’m looking at frame only

You can swing a leg over my Heckler (med) if thats any use to you. I ride in The Peak often enough.

Carl

If you’re going to demo a Butcher you should try a Blur LT as well for a direct comparison. Personally I wouldn’t go back to single pivot but different strokes for different folks. FWIW I’ve had to do no more maintenance on my LT2 in 2.5 years than a couple of pumps of the grease gun every 3-4 months for the lower bearings and two allen key tweaks of the top bearings

I’ll echo one of the other posts, go to 18Bikes in Hope and get a demo ride. I bought my Heckler from there ex demo and have never regretted it. The single pivot design with the Fox DHX Air shock is supple enough over small bumps but will take big hits with ease. The Heckler isn’t too heavy at around 30 pounds to do most jobs and actually feels lighter than it is, especially on climbs which it handles without pedal bob even without the Pro Pedal flicked on. If it was my money I’d be really tempted by the Nickel, even though I haven’t ridden it Singletrack liked it and it’s very similar to the Heckler just with the added rocker link on the seat tube. I’d definitley hugely recommend the Heckler but 1000’s of people out there (and numerous mags) can’t be wrong about the ubiquitous Orange 5 either.

I’d seriously consider the Butcher. had a test on it a couple of months ago and found it really fun to ride. Lively and fun on the descents without being a handful, surprisingly good uphill too. IMO it pedals a lot better than a Five. My local shop (Biketreks in Ambleside) have a nice one in.

Is there going to be that much difference between a new bike and the old say “Prophet”? I have just got a Prophet and can’t say that there is much wrong with it. It is not a super light XC bike or a downhill machine. Just somewhere in the middle which is great for me. Have frames developed that much since then? Though the Cannondale Rize got Top marks from STW a few issues ago.

In answer to your original question should you move away from single pivot I’d say no not in this day with the shock technology they work as well as multi link bikes. I’ve owned both over the years from a Nicolai (multi linkage) to my current bike which is a Foes which is in effect a single pivot. Both worked well and could I notice the difference, not enough to worry about. I like the fact that single pivot is simple.

I think Single pivot works great but only when you’re in the right chainring. I would stick with a single ring at the front or one of those fancy truvativ things. Brake jack can be fixed by choosing one of the frames available with a floating brake arm.

I saw that Butcher in Biketreks on Monday, does look v tasty.