Political Europhiles and Eurosceptics seem all too happy to bang on about the pros and cons from their perspective, but no-one has ever been able to give me an objective, balanced report of the reasons.
Where should I stand? I dunno.
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Is someone able to give me a balanced view of Britain being part of the EU?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Probably not.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You're asking for someone to give you a balanced opinion?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think in policy circles the debate has moved on from first principles questions of whether we should be in it at all. Almost all meaningful laws passed in the UK have their roots in Brussels - it's an integral part of public administration now. Leaving would be a bit like sending us back to the Stone Age. The issue isn't to do with whether you like the French or the Germans on a personal level.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Germany has always wanted to conquer europe, got their noses bloodied twice, this is the stealth aproach - sceptics view
We should all live together as one world in peace and harmony - pro european view
Posted 1 year ago # -
Leaving would be a bit like sending us back to the Stone Age.
Or the opposing view would be that it would free Britain to make decisions based on what is good for our nation alone.
( from someone who had lunch with 2 Germans, 1 Italian, 1 French/Italian and an Irish, and narrowly avoided having lunch with a Yorkshireman )
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think a lot of people don't appreciate the historical reasons behind the creation of what has become the EU - last two World Wars starting in Europe yada yada. FWIR reading somewhere, the origins of the EU date back to a French/German (& possibly UK) trade agreements over Iron & Steel trade. HTH somehow.
Oh, and good luck getting an objective balanced view on this forum
Posted 1 year ago # -
Europe.
Everyone owes Maggie an apology
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100064330/margaret-thatcher-knew-the-single-currency-would-devastate-europe/
Posted 1 year ago # -
You won't find balance very easily. All you can do is listen to all the arguments and formulate your position. For what it is worth my opinion, the EU is a club because of our geograhy we have to stickk to the rules. We can either try and help make them by being in the EU or do as we are told.
For those who look to switzerland and norway, they aren't free to make up laws, they still need to comply with EU rulesMPosted 1 year ago # -
Brussels is about spending a lot of money on a parliament that is not really accountable to us. As another poster says, much of new British law/directives, come from Brussels - true! Whether it works for us is irrelevant. E.G. Fishing quotas, what a crime that was against the little guy trying to make a living with a small fishing vessel based out of various ports up and down the country. Brussels allowed the floating fish factories to come all the way up from Spain, hoovering up the sea bed and taking vast hauls, whilst paying for our guys to break up their boats. Tell me how that was good for our economy?
We, the British people, have never had the pros and cons of Brussels presented to us with a view to being given a chance to vote on whether we want it or not. I guess this is largely down to the fact that our government doesn't really have control of the situation. Some might even question that we still have a democracy. The wool has and is being pulled over our eyes!
Brussels says "jump", the UK governent jumps. It often feels like these directives are determined by our own parliament. It's laughable.
I'm glad we didn't join the common currency. Introducing this was a big mistake because one size does not fit all! Look at Greece, Spain and Ireland. Basket cases which musy now be carried by the successful countries in Europe. If these countries had their own currnecy and the ability to set their own interest rates, they probably would never have gotten into this mess.
Europe is a FAIL IMHO. I also think the Euro currency is doomed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the Euro currency is doomed.
Does that mean the return of cheap euro hols and cheap beer? If so how can I assist in it's demise.
Posted 1 year ago # -
On the one hand there are benefits, on the other disadvantages.
That's about as balanced and objective as you can get.Posted 1 year ago # -
Does that mean the return of cheap euro hols and cheap beer? If so how can I assist in it's demise.
Well the introduction of the Euro brought about large price hikes (as much as 30% in some cases). I put this down to opportunism and ignorance.
The Pound is now much weaker against the Euro and i'm a bit perplexed as to why the Eurozone is so overrated.
Norman Lamont blew a fortune of our money trying to peg us too high in his attempt to get us into the ERM. Scandalous costly failure, but perhaps a blessing in disguise!
With UK base rates at 0.5%, don't expect a strong pound anytime soon.
Posted 1 year ago # -
As a rule of thumb, If interest rates here are high, cash from foreign investors flows in, as they are looking for the most lucrative place to make the most of their investment. The net result is that Sterling becomes a more desireable currency, so up goes the price. The by product of this is we get more bang for our buck when travelling abroad.
The downside of a strong currency is we can't compete on exports. As we don't make much these days, low interest rates don't seem to be helping anyone, except those who once borrowed too much to buy their house, but still have a big debt to service.
Posted 1 year ago # -
ermmm successive British gov'ts have signed a whole load of contracts on behalf of the British people that would cost us prohibitively to escape.
We don't have an option on the EU legally (despite what politicians and tabloid rags may say). Geographically we don't have an option in being part of Europe (despite what politicians and tabloid rags may say).
Historically we needed the EU for various reasons - quite a lot being to do with the common market and now our trading partners (from the old colonial days) have found other places to sell their wares; we're stuffed with out the EU commercially.
Finally where would the cheapskate bosses/unloved men find cheap workers/wives otherwise.
Funnily enough when the Euro Currency is doing badly all the wise ones crawl out of the woodwork to tell us how joining the Eurozone would be a bad idea.
Funnily enough when Stirling is doing badly all the wise ones crawl out of the woodwork to tell us how joining the Eurozone would be a good idea.Posted 1 year ago # -
You wont get a balanced view as this shows
We, the British people, have never had the pros and cons of Brussels presented to us with a view to being given a chance to vote on whether we want it or not
Which overlooks the referendum we had on joining for example.
Essentially some people want to be screwed/ignored trodden on by a public educated millionairre elite of British stock others dont mind being screwed/ignored trodden on by a foreign eurpopean burecratic elite.
Personally I fail to see why the location of the person shafting me is so criotical to my view of their governance.Posted 1 year ago # -
That the last 60 years has been peaceful in western Europe (with the exception of relatively very minor conflicts in Northern Ireland/the Basque Country) is remarkable considering European history - you would have to go back to the era of Pax Romano for a comparable time without major conflict and that was about 2000 years ago.
That is not all down to the EU but it has played a huge role in it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Europe is a FAIL IMHO. I also think the Euro currency is doomed.
You also thought Gillian Mckeith was a real doctor.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Is someone able to give me a balanced view of Britain being part of the EU?
Clearly not.
I believe it is enormously to our advantage but by not being involved 100% in it we have missed opportunities
Posted 1 year ago # -
you would have to go back to the era of Pax Romano for a comparable time without major conflict and that was about 2000 years ago.
Not quite, between 1850(ish) and 1910(ish) we managed not to upset the neighbours too much, but I understand the point you're making
Posted 1 year ago # -
Biggest objection to Europe in my opinion is that it is impossible to have a proper democracy with this style of organisation.
What we have is a thin layer of democracy pasted over a bureaucratic oligarchy.
nickc - Member
apart from the Boers who nearly flogged us.
...Not quite, between 1850(ish) and 1910(ish) we managed not to upset the neighbours too much...
Posted 1 year ago # -
what is the difference between what you describe and the UK parliamentary system (particularly the 2 tier system with professional politicians).
The only difference I can see is the queen!
Posted 1 year ago # -
A friend of mines father is an economist, of the EU he always says it protects us from the storms but means we end up with a lot of rain. To be fair he's usually half cut!
Posted 1 year ago # -
.. it protects us from the storms but means we end up with a lot of rain.
If this is rain, I'd hate to see what a storm would be like.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Epicyclo, quite so, I was thinking more about Europe though!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Wasn't the reason for peace(ish) from 1850s-early 1900s that a lot of the bigger euro nations either a) did their fighting with each other abroad or b) were tied up with fighting 'their' natives in relatively recently conquered lands and ongoing landgrabs?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Unity, peace and love aside, most of what I have read makes the UK a net EU contributor to the tune of £200 + for each person in the UK.
Is this correct and if so can someone please explain how this is of benefit to the UK? If it is not true, what are the figures ?
I appreciate that the perceived benefits cannot always be measured in financial terms but going back to the referendum on the 'common market', I think you would be hard pushed to find anyone (politicians included) who had any idea that the 'free trade agreement' would result in the EU as it currently stands.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I believe it is enormously to our advantage but by not being involved 100% in it we have missed opportunities
Much as it pains me, I have to agree.
To those who feel that the EU has shat on us like fishing quota's and the like, the only people you have to blame are the british jobsworths.
A typical european (esp french , spanish, italian) civil servant looks at a new EU law and asks themselves how can they best interpret this law to serve their country and their people, a typical UK civil servant looks at it and thinks how can I satsify my craving for power, bossing people around and general arseyness.
I think the little Britain Sketch "computer says no" is an excellent observation of this British malaise.
The EU could be brilliant for us.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Woody - more than balanced out by the greater / easier trade? Cheaper imports, more exports.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Which could all have been achieved by allowing 'free trade' without the need for another level of government/bureaucracy, couldn't it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Pulling out is out of the question, but this halfway house we are in is not much good either.
The EU could be brilliant for us.
We need to get stuck in a lot more and sort out the bureaucracy, and we need to stop this repetitive whinging about it.
The downside of a strong currency is we can't compete on exports. As we don't make much these days, low interest rates don't seem to be helping anyone,
We are still in the top ten manufacturing economies in the World, but unlike pretty much every other country we don't have a policy on industrial strategy.
Brussels is about spending a lot of money on a parliament that is not really accountable to us.
Nonsense. You elect MEP'S don't you? Or is it a case of people not taking the European parliament seriously, except only when to whinge about something.
Everyone owes Maggie an apology
I don't think so. The Euro will not be allowed to fail.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think you would be hard pushed to find anyone (politicians included) who had any idea that the 'free trade agreement' would result in the EU as it currently stands.
But nobody's thinking of leaving. Too much business tied up in it now to do so.
Posted 1 year ago # -
We need to get stuck in a lot more and sort out the bureaucracy, and we need to stop this repetitive whinging about it.
Hmm selective quoting of me, you have missed my point that the bureaucracy is a product of british interpretation of EU laws.
Posted 1 year ago # -
nickc - Member
Epicyclo, quite so, I was thinking more about Europe though!Ah, but it was our performance in the Boer War that convinced the Germans they could take us. Probably gave them the idea for concentration camps too
El-bent - Member
...You elect MEP'S don't you? Or is it a case of people not taking the European parliament seriously, except only when to whinge about something.Yes, but quite frankly I have not got the brain capacity to understand all of the European issues, and therefore my vote is not an informed one.
I realised I lacked this brain capacity after noting all the laws coming in which appeared to be harming UK interests.
Being thus handicapped, I didn't remember the crowds demonstrating in the streets to have these laws introduced.
Posted 1 year ago # -
toys
Going by your interpretation we are going to continue to get shafted for the foreseeable as there is no way we are going to change our working practices in the near future.
Not exactly promising !
BTW as you brought it up, the civil servants who allowed the fishing quotas, foreign fishing vessel registration etc. were/are not jobsworths - they were/are incompetent idiots!
Posted 1 year ago #
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