That’s him.

I have a lot of his HoC stationery at home.

May is a second rate Frank Underwood wannabe – that’s all there is to understand about her…

I reckon she possibly watches HoC for ideas whilst she whips her hogtied husband and has him call her “maam”.

Shes like a 6th formers idea of what it means to be a machiavellian political operator.

Holding a Brexit Referendum was a very courageous gamble.

it was a short-sighted, ill-conceived and complacent act of opportunism by a politician who wasn’t half as clever as he thought he was. There was a reason Blair – a far far cleverer politician – wouldn’t even contemplate it. He knew full well what the result would be.

And since then we’ve been at the mercy of a Tory party of the most blatant and self-serving opportunists. Boris’s whole stance was pure opportunism. Goves back-stabbing – cynical opportunism. Mays accent to power – pure opportunism. This ****ing election – pure ****ing opportunism

Everything that every one of these ****s have done has been absolutely self-serving, and to hell with the consequences for everyone else!

Everything that every one of these ****s have done has been absolutely self-serving, and to hell with the consequences for everyone else!

There is a silver lining. This election is pretty much an admission that brexit is going to be a failure and is merely an exercise in extending their time in government by a couple of years. The damage would be done by brexit early election or not, so another couple of years is no big deal. Also it allows an early resolution (probably) to the Corbyn situation. The question is whether labour would be better off choosing a new leader this summer, or in 2020?

After his back-to-the-70’s speech before, someone raised a nightmare scenario. The more I think about it, the more I think it’s not only plausible, but actually pretty likely…

Corbs leads labour to a catastrophic election defeat, but then refuses to resign, saying he needs to finish the job. He could even call a leadership election, where the 6th formers vote him in again.

The result…. 5 years of Theresa and co to get on with whatever the hell they like, with no opposition at all. Effectively a single party state run by a bunch of hard right nut-jobs.

Something to look forward to eh?

After his back-to-the-70’s speech before

Is saying that the tories represent the establishment elite now a hard left 1970s viewpoint? Your hatred of Corbyn really doesn’t do your objectivity any favours sometimes. There wasn’t much in that speech that the vast majority of people wouldn’t agree with.

I agree with most of what he said. But since when did we need it pointing out that the Tories are a bunch of soulless, self-serving ****s who exclusively serve the interests of their rich mates

Well…. like… der!

What I don’t hear any is viable ideas about how he’s going to change it. Its all pie-in-the-sky 6th form nonsense, that relies on the discovery of a forest of magic money trees

There is a silver lining. This election is pretty much an admission that brexit is going to be a failure and is merely an exercise in extending their time in government by a couple of years. The damage would be done by brexit early election or not, so another couple of years is no big deal.

I’m still looking for the silver lining in this…

There really isn’t one. We’re all totally ****ed!

I can envisage the nightmare scenario of a Tory party pureeing a calamitous hard right agenda through Brexit, and Corbyn still insisting on clinging on to the leadership, thus meaning there effectively is no opposition

If so, I’m leaving the country!

Come to Scotland. We’ll need more people to pay for all our loony leftie ideas!

I agree with most of what he said. But since when did we need it pointing out that the Tories are a bunch of soulless, self-serving ****s who exclusively serve the interests of their rich mates

Well considering that many working and middle class people vote for them despite it clearly not being in their interests I’d say it needs to be pointed out an awful lot more. The challenge is doing it in a way that people can relate to that cuts through the rabid propaganda of the right wing press and supposedly impartial mainstream media.

Well considering that many working and middle class people vote for them despite it clearly not being in their interests I’d say it needs to be pointed out an awful lot more.

Exactly. Keep pointing it out for the next 7 weeks, plus NHS every other sentence and people may start to think about what the tories are actually doing for them

I’m still looking for the silver lining in this…

Obviously the silver lining is that in 5 years time the tories are f*****. It’s always been the case that whoever the leader is, labour only really have a chance of success when the tories have run everything down to the point where the general public wake up and realise they’re much worse off than they were before.

🙂

Do people up there still see SNP as a Left of Centre party?

Well considering that many working and middle class people vote for them despite it clearly not being in their interest

People vote Tory as they are the party that’s good for the economy and business. No business no job for the working class. A Labour Govt helps no one if the economy is daffy ducked by their looney policies. Blair understood that and hence his center-ist approach especially to business. Corbyn would be a disaster for the Middle Class.

There was a reason Blair – a far far cleverer politician – wouldn’t even contemplate it. He knew full well what the result would be.

So he signed the Lisbon Treaty enabling ever closer Union and an effective EU constitution in the full knowledge the UK wanted out of the EU. Democracy eh ?

A Labour Govt helps no one if the economy is daffy ducked by their looney policies

the last time this happened it was the banking sector which did us all in and the Tories were proposing even less regulation

Whilst I accept there is a general perception that the tories do better on the economy I do not think it is actually true any govt – for it was a world wide recession- ws on trouble then and it had little to do with who was in power at the time – GO agreed to match labour spending plans for example

in the full knowledge the UK wanted out of the EU

even you predicted a loss for leave so the claim we wanted out and we all knew it is just not true.

I thought you would love him for it as dont forget

The Treaty for the first time gave member states the explicit legal right to leave the EU and the procedure to do so.

Before it there was no way to leave so he opened the door for the glorious march to freedom [ via economic ruin and a litany of broken promises that we must all pull behind]

the last time this happened it was the banking sector which did us all in and the Tories were proposing even less regulation

On Peter Hennessey’s Reflections Nigel Lawson said that regulations he’d put in places would have prevented the crash and New Labour removed them.

I’ve no idea if that’s true but I think politicians are typically honest when they go on Reflections.

martinhutch – Member
Do people up there still see SNP as a Left of Centre party?

As Westminster has moved, and is still moving, the centre to the right, it’s not that difficult to be “left of centre”.

Further left than May? Yes.
Further left than Cameron? Yes.
Further left than Brown? Yes.
Further left than Blair? Yes.

jambalaya – Member

There was a reason Blair – a far far cleverer politician – wouldn’t even contemplate it. He knew full well what the result would be.

So he signed the Lisbon Treaty enabling ever closer Union and an effective EU constitution in the full knowledge the UK wanted out of the EU. Democracy eh ?[/quote]

Yep. Representative parliamentary democracy. Preferable to a bipolar referendum that splits the country. IMO of course.
If you don’t like it you are welcome to move. I believe Switzerland has lots of things with a referendum (that they then weasel past when the result isn’t right) 😉

On Peter Hennessey’s Reflections Nigel Lawson said that regulations he’d put in places would have prevented the crash and New Labour removed them.

I’ve no idea if that’s true but I think politicians are typically honest when they go on Reflections.

Given that there is a counter-argument that it was the Tory banking deregulation that created the space for that crash, I think a pinch of salt is in order.

He may be telling the truth, he may be deluded but truthful, or he may be ducking responsibility – I do not know.

However I do recall that Brown got the economy back into growth before he left, which Cameron and Osborne unfortunately turned around into a second slump.

Whilst I accept there is a general perception that the tories do better on the economy

The party of business implementing brexit=does not compute.

He may be telling the truth, he may be deluded but truthful, or he may be ducking responsibility – I do not know.

Can’t believe I’m wasting my life googling this. The Banking Act 1987 was under his tenure as CofExc. So I guess that what he’s talking about. No idea if he had a point or not.

OOB – nor do I. Some have said the problems date back to then, but everyone with an opinion and knowledge has a vested interest and I tend not to trust anyone either way.

The brutal reality of austerity, poverty and the heartless tory party…

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/22/i-am-daniel-blake-millions-like-me-jack-monroe-ken-loach

People vote Tory as they are the party that’s for some reason still able to convince people they are good at the economy and business, regardless of all the evidence to the contrary

FIFY

Lack of regulation of the banks and more importantly consumer lending was the primary issue imo. It was that regulations where not properly applied rather than regulations where removed per-se. Labour and Brown as Chancellor certainly could have done more to minimise the impact of the US lead 2007/8 crises but their big crime was failing to react appropriately, basically imo Brown knew the election was coming in 2010 and he tried to bluff through without reigning in spending.

if he was a tory, he would have done less.

And we have to remember that Brown got growth back into the economy that the Tories then killed.

“but their big crime was failing to react appropriately, basically imo Brown knew the election was coming in 2010 and he tried to bluff through without reigning in spending.”

IIRC Blair explicitly states in his book that they couldn’t cut spending early in the term because Brown was going to take over and was considering an early election.

Basically if you have one eye on an election for a whole term it’s pretty hard to get a grip on spending – there’s never a right time.

Nothing any other party does with the economy can possibly compete with the disaster for business that is Brexit.

People vote Tory as they are the party that’s good for the economy and business.

In your head

Corbyn would be a disaster for the Middle Class.

Better for the middle classes to suffer a bit than the poor and disabled though isn’t it. The middle classes are only middle class/well-off by luck, they could have been born to an alcoholic single mother. People need to remember that and be a bit more generous with their lucky positions.

To understand that requires empathy and the last I heard the tories were trying to make the word illegal.

I do wonder whether taking money off the disabled is actually a vote winner. Some orrible **** **** out there.

@Kerley. Can you explain to me how damaging the middle classes will help social mobility?

Or are you happy for the poor to stay poor, but with a few more scraps of handouts?

I’m happy to pay more taxes to be clear, but i don’t see it achieving much more than applying a slightly bigger plaster and not actually solving the problems i want to see fixed.

I do wonder whether taking money off the disabled is actually a vote winner. Some orrible **** **** out there.

They’ve been told by the daily fail they all frauds and con artists duping hard working families out of their cash and jumping queues with bogus blue badges. You only have to read the comments on the recent Motorbility story on the beeb it’s very depressing

Piemonster – it seems to work in most european countries where income tax on the middle classes is much higher ( remember they pay for their healthcare on top of tax)

It works in some European countries, I’m happy for you to evidence whether it’s most.

And to be fair, it’s not what I’m really getting at. If you want more tax income don’t start with punishing the middle classes, look at how you grow the middle classes then tax accordingly.

Ideally I don’t want people in full time work to be reliant on the state. They’re working, pay them enough to live on rather than state top ups.

I do wonder whether taking money off the disabled is actually a vote winner. Some orrible **** **** out there.

Ring fencing the NHS budget is is popular, if the NHS gets more, everyone else has to get less. So taking from the disabled is a vote winner, just in a round about way.

And we have to remember that Brown got growth back into the was lucky enough to ride the worldwide economic boom that was starting in 1997 that the Tories then killed.

I’m no fan of Tories or Labour, but the China and credit driven boom of the early noughties could have been a success for any chancellor in power at the time.

How you then deal with the risks and opportunities that boom offers a government/country in the medium to long term is how the economic management should be judged.

And while the seeds of the banking collapse may have been sown by Tory deregulation, by the time it happened in 2008, Brown and Bliar had been in position to address the issues for 10 years, if they were as canny as some like to think they were*. Turns out they only had eyes on extending their reign of power, not doing what was best for the country. Same as the bastard Tories before them.

*Fair play, he kept us out of the Euro.