• This topic has 53 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by four.
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  • Is lighter always better?
  • Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    Lighter bikes are more of a handful on Alpine downhills, anything sub 30lbs feels far too twitchy to me.

    A lot of the pros purposely build their wheelsets heavier, not just for strength but for more stability as well.

    General rule, heavy bikes carry speed on descents, lighter bikes accelerate/decelerate better.

    For instance dual ply super tackys give a really “dead” ride, which is exactly what you want when charging over things that could knock you off line. If they were lighter, and still had the same properties*, they’d be better even at this specific task.

    Again, I’m not enitrelysure that is true, heavier wheels have more of a gyroscopic effect and heavier bikes hold more momentum. Again, loads of the pros build their bikes heavier than they could do.

    fifeandy
    Free Member

    @Northwind
    Yes, i’m sure bike weight is exaggerated for lighter riders, its why you’ll find me in numerous threads bitching about mid-travel bikes that are too porky. Us featherweights aren’t blessed with massive watts or upper body strength, so anything heavy or inefficient really shows up.
    Its the reason we see the men race XC World cups on FS, but the ladies who are lighter and less powerful still favour the HT most of the time.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Off road, anything you can comfortably lift over gates on an all dayer is fine by me.

    I much prefer hefting the wife’s 23lb alloy mtb than my 27lb steel bike and I wouldn’t want anything dramatically heavier.

    All my MTB’s have been between those weights, thinking about it.

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    molgrips
    Free Member

    Lighter wheels = less rotational weight = greater economy of pedal effort

    Only for acceleration. When you are up to speed, there’s probably no difference. However heavy feels faster in your head, cos you get more momentum and when you ease off the power the bike carries on a bit more than you expect. Psychological effect I think. My commuter bike with its drops feels really quick, but it’s clearly not . But it makes it fun to ride.

    four
    Free Member

    For acceleration absolutely, but also for climbing yes?

    kerley
    Free Member

    For acceleration absolutely, but also for climbing yes?

    Climbing is acceleration, i.e. each pedal strokes is accelerating the bike back up to the speed you are going. Stop doing that and you will stop.
    In simple terms how quickly you will stop if you stop pedalling has more of a bearing on how important weight it

    Uphill you stop fast, flat you stop slowly, downhill you don’t stop

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Climbing is acceleration

    Only on steep climbs where your speed slows down between pedal strokes. If you can maintain a decent cadence then the slowdown between strokes is minimal enough to not matter imo. And, if you have heavier wheels you have more momentum so you will slow down less. And have more momentum to carry you through the dead spot of power.

    So heavier could actually feel faster there too.

    four
    Free Member

    So are we saying there is little benefit to light wheels for most XC/ natural trail riding except where short bursts of acceleration is needed?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    TBH the psychological effect can make a big difference, I think people tend to dismiss psychology but for me it’s one of the biggest things that makes me fast or slow, if it feels fast I go faster. So in this case, that immediacy when you pedal is instantly rewarding and makes me want to pedal harder. The heavier, slower wheels and tyres on the remedy feel like effort, which I also kind of like because pedalling it up to speed feels fairly mighty and has a nice feeling of, I dunno, consequence- like the satisfaction of lifting a heavy thing. But it gets old! By the end of a long day I’m definitely less motivated to put legwork in.

    OTOH the fatbike makes a cool noise when I pedal it and that’s a wee feedback loop too. It’s all good.

    philjunior
    Free Member

    TBH the psychological effect can make a big difference, I think people tend to dismiss psychology but for me it’s one of the biggest things that makes me fast or slow, if it feels fast I go faster.

    I think this is very true, both ways. And new stuff always seems better. I’ve put new brake pads in and found myself climbing better, new chain and the (pretty much pedal free) techy descents are ridden better.

    adsh
    Free Member

    I feel a lot racier on a 21lb bike than a 24lb one.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So are we saying there is little benefit to light wheels for most XC/ natural trail riding except where short bursts of acceleration is needed?

    Depends on taste. Snappy acceleration is nice, for sure, you may enjoy it.

    I think people tend to dismiss psychology

    Indeed – for those not racing (i.e. almost all of us) how fast we complete a particular trail in absolute terms makes no difference, it’s only about enjoyment. We can gain satisfaction from doing a trail quicker than before but that’s relative to the same bike – overall speed makes no difference. So psychology is all there is.

    For racing, it’s different. I’d be tempted nowadays to have both heavy and light wheels for different courses.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    TBH when I think about it, that’s probably a large part of the difference in handling too- if a bike feels more agile you’ll go for moves that you might not otherwise, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you couldn’t have done it on a heavier bike. I can put a lighter bike places I can’t with a heavier bike but that could be the rider not hte bike. Or more likely a mix.

    four
    Free Member

    Some interesting ideas here – psychology of riding etc and feeling faster.

    Faster is good, but then so is economy of effort on an all day session (certainly not going to be an economy of wallet going lighter) and if lighter wheels/tyres bring that then its got to be good as I edge closer to fifty.

    I’m in the situation now of deciding whether to upgrade the rims and tyres on my Orange Four from the standard Alex Volar 2.5 and Minion/High Roller to DT Swiss and Specialized. Not talking uber carbon light with paper thin tyres, but still a fair weight saving with good strength.

    Hopefully it will mean on a 20-30 miler I’m less knackered/faster across the South Downs – and all for a modest-ish sum of circa £250.

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