Oh wise STW Oracle…

Booking my VW in for a dealer full service and they asked me if I wanted the engine flush aswell for another £36. I have no knowledge of whether this is something I should consider. It is a 2.0 diesel fwiw

Cheers!

new or old – do you use shit fuel and shit lubricant – if no don’t bother. It can cause more harm than good.

No idea how old your engine is but i believe the general concensus is that it’s risky on older engines as dislodging bits of muck and crap can cause more harm than good.

Regular oil changes at the correct intervals should negate the need for a flush.

All in my opinion obviously, i’m not a mechanic.

It can cause more harm than good.

Agreed.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

its a 58 plate. It has been dealer serviced fully up to now so I am hoping that good oils etc have been used!

I just wasn’t sure if it was just a technique to sting you for a few more quid whilst you are there.

It can cause more harm than good.

Or dislodge a few bits so you have to book it in to get it fixed! .. Sneaky beggers!

max – 58 plate dealer serviced, they will be using decent oil! As long as you haven’t been dumping chip fat in your tank – or more importantly as long as you’ve put the odd tank of a major (Shell, BP, Total, Esso etc) diesel in you’ll be fine – it’s just extra £££ for nothing.

Slightly OT but is supermarket fuel really different from BP, Texaco, etc? And if do, how? I use pretty much exclusively Sainsburys fuel, is this bad?

I talked to a customer of mine who is a major haulier for fuel/oil.
He told me they load out of the same diesel tanks for supermarket and regular stations.

It’s a fairly even split of shell garage by my house and Sainsburies by my work.

Think I will pass on the flush then.

Maxray: £36 for sweet FA TBH. The better method is to remove the sump and clean it thoroughly. But no point on a 58 plate. Is it in for a minor or major service?

Lunge: Fuel is fuel. It has to conform to an ISO / BS standard. All of the big oil companies increase the price on the assumption that as a consumer you will pay more for a named brand.

Off topic: I did a little research recently on where our processed food comes from. People would be surprised to find out the truth TBH.

Example: All corned beef produced in europe comes from 1 factory. Owned and operated by Lidl. They can for everyone. What goes in the can may vary slightly, but not by much.

I used to work for a packaging manufacturer supplying butter containers to Unilever, Dairy Crest & St Ivel. I was at a filling plant and the line was changing from Tescos “Butter” to Sainsburys “Butter”. The recipe was different, but they still had about 2 tonnes of Tescos in the filler tanks. They just dumped the Sainburys batch on top. Normal practice.

Slightly OT but is supermarket fuel really different from BP, Texaco, etc? And if do, how? I use pretty much exclusively Sainsburys fuel, is this bad?

the “base” diesel is indeed the same for most people, in that it comes from a UK refinery or has passed through the UK pipe networks. What is different is what happens at the loading racks. Each major will have a tank of proprietry additve that is loaded in at the same time the tanker is filled up. It is these additives that make the difference between something quite ordinary and lacking into something much more healthy for your car – adds normally add anywhere upto 1-2ppl at retail.

There are a couple of exceptions to this.

Tesco fleet – espcially southern take their fuel from a distributor on the thames who has questionalbe supply in terms of QC (smae poeple who **** up many a car a few years ago.

Shell Vpower – all comes from Stanlow and is “different” full stop.

It’s worth paying the extra for BP types – what’s 1-2ppl over 60 litres or so – no where near as much as a bottle of redex et al..

Slightly OT but is supermarket fuel really different from BP, Texaco, etc? And if do, how?

I was told (on here I think) that the supermarkets buy up whatever’s left after the main customers have bought. So it varies, sometimes it’s good sometimes not.

EDIT: as above. I also think British Standards enforce certain parameters but not necessarily the calorific value – so to get it to the point where it burns properly they have to add stuff that ends up reducing the calorific value.. not sure about that side of it though.

Total diesel seems to be the best ime.

This is why I love STW so much.. thanks all. I can spend that £30 on emergency blankets and the like for the welsh ride thing now 🙂

🙂

no.to the flush,
and as a former buyer of fuel for tesco i can tell you the fuel is the same as everybody elses ( it was 10 years ago anyway)no matter what your mates mums aunties sister from down the pub overheard.

Only if it’s the old rover v8 or a Saab 2.0 lpt
Otherwise I wouldn’t bother

read my above /\ – this is current practice. the additve market is big business. YEs the EN (not ISO – BS(7800) covers super grade) 228- Gasoline 590 – diesel do have parameters that everyone has to meet, but you can run a bus through the spec. It also does not control wheter there should be cetane improvers and octane imporvers which effect sensitivity and thusly driveability (with distillation curve, etc) of fuel. Combustion properties are also not controlled which is what additives can (do) enhance.

no.to the flush,
and as a former buyer of fuel for tesco i can tell you the fuel is the same as everybody elses ( it was 10 years ago anyway)no matter what your mates mums aunties sister from down the pub overheard.

What he said… Remember one of the car mags (I think it was EVO) doing a big article a few years ago all about where fuel comes from. Basically, it’s so damned expensive to transport it, they’re all on share agreements, so aside from the very specialized fuels that cost extra (Tesco 99RON, Shell V-Power etc.), the bog standard unleadeds and diesels will come from the same refineries whatever brand you’re buying from on the forecourt. Oh, and excepting Morrisons generally their Diesel is 15% Bio too.

As for the engine flush, well… 2 schools of thought, both have been mentioned already. I’d not bother with it on your car, but if you wanted to do it, a can of Wynn’s engine flush (which is all they’ll use) is about £6 from Halfords, so they’re charging you £30 for the privilege of opening it and letting the car idle for 10 minutes on it for you!!! Just so you know…

EVO/TopGear etc can all bugger off, they let you hear what they want. Base diesle in most cases the same, yes – add packs VERY different or non existent with supermarkets.

Morrisons cannot sell 15% bio as EN590 – it has to be HIGHLIGHTED VERY CLEAR THAT IT IS 15% BIO and does not conform to EN590 which has 7% max. Typical market place is 4.5% at the moment due to economics and RFTO scheme compliance.

Then what do you use to flush the engine-flush-stuff out with.
A lot of garages use vacuum oil syphon devices to suck oil up out of the engine these days, instead of draining out through the drain plug. So there is the chance that as well as some old oil being left in the sump there will be the engine-flush-stuff in there as well.
Only put the right oil in the engine.

Is it worth paying a garage to change the engine oil….

When they charge so much for the oil?

There was a letter in Diesel Car magazine, Feb 2005, issue 203. (www.dieselcar.com)

” Myself and two other motoring enthusiasts got together to find a cheaper way of getting quality oil at a better price. We each agreed to accept a 20 litre container and, armed with an order for our 60 litres. I went to a local oil distributor to get a price for some fully synthetic oil in this case Total Quartz 9000 5w/40. In January 2004 I was quoted £1.45 per litre including vat. When we eventually went to order in October we had expected a price rise – what with the escalating cost of crude oil. We were then quoted £1.20 per litre, plus vat and I could barely believe it! I was told that it was because the order was placed at the beginning of the month! That worked out at £7.05 for 5 litres, delivered to my front door. Apparently we were classed as “bulk-buyers”.”

…..and its fairly easy to change the oil yourself..

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/products/203129/fluid_extractors.html

You pay for a service? it’s the most easy of tasks that most garages charge over the odds to do

Example: my OH paid for what she beleived to be a full service only to be told after the fact that the full service doesn’t include the price of the oil! when quizzed further he said that the basic service does include oil – go figure!

Macavity – Member

…..and its fairly easy to change the oil yourself..

I will definitely give it a go as I have seen my mates changed engine oil themselves.

Buy a Haynes manual, and ask a mate who does know what they’re doing to service it with you.

I’ve done this a few times with friends who had Fiestas/Saxos/Corsas/etc.

My folks were kind enough to let us use the garage/tools for the job for many years.

Saved us all a bucket load of cash!

Okay where do you empty the used engine oil after that?

Slightly OT but is supermarket fuel really different from BP, Texaco, etc? And if do, how? I use pretty much exclusively Sainsburys fuel, is this bad?

For petrol, no. But for diesel, yes according to our LR specialist (after two sets of injectors). He suggests to avoid ‘supermarket’ and other ‘cheaper’ fuel.

I’d ask your dealer to explain to you in layman’s terms what their flush is alleged to achieve IN WRITING? Do the engine oils they use during services not contain detergents (as per industry standard)? Perhaps they could tell you which engine oil they use so you can take the matter up with the oil maker?

I’d love to see their answers.

Okay where do you empty the used engine oil after that?

your local recycling centre should be able to dispose of it for you. I take mine an put it in a big vat they have which gets recycled!

You pay for a service?

Yeah – I think they read the engine codes. Plus a good garage should look for all the car specific stuff that you might not be aware of. Anyone know of a good garage?

If its a 1.8turbo passat get the flush as they have oil sludging issues

If its as smokey as **** and been to the moon and back and
drinking oil (audis excluded)
Get a flush

If your doing it your self doent buy flush mix 2ltrs off brake cleaner into your oil warm up and drain
Flush again with cheap supermarket pishy oil
Then change filter and fill with the correct oil refer to handbooks

Modern cars are far more fussy about oil grade than previous generation mondeos\rover etc

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

“Do I need a flushing oil?
Unless there’s something seriously wrong with your engine, like you’ve filled it with milk or shampoo, you really ought never to need a flushing oil.”

http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible_pg3.html

– 58 plate dealer serviced, they will be using decent oil!

not necessarily true – the big franchise locally (vw, fiat/alfa, others) used off spec oil for my car as they bought on bulk and used it on everything – plus the grade was not retail so you were stuffed if you wanted some more.

Shell V power petrol is definitely different from even other ‘premium’ petrols – more fuel economy for one and I get more torque and smoothness.

yep tesco diesel – and noted at their pumps have 7% bio ethanol in their fuel – which is a lower calorific content than diesel – this coincides with my fuel economy being consistantly 4mpg higher with real diesel from shell…..

so i avoid tesco unless im desperate – even if the shell is slightly more expensive !

Re paying for oil to be changed: I had the oil changed in our Volvo a couple of months ago. Total cost was about £45.00 including oil and filter, plus they used Castrol Edge fully synth.
It would have cost me £39.00 for the oil alone at Costco so it was a no brainer.

Is it actually worth filling up with the ‘premium’ petrol, especially in a (relatively) high power engine? (Audi 1.8T / 200hp.)

Or is it just for mugs, who think they *need* to fill up their cars with ‘better’ fuel?

Not trollin’..

If you really want to do it go to powerenhancer.co.uk and get the treatment you need. I used the petrol cleaner and it did make a small difference.

I’m sure the 5th gear did a test with fuels and it was proved the vPower gave better fuel economy and better horsepower. Not sure about diesel though

Is it actually worth filling up with the ‘premium’ petrol, especially in a (relatively) high power engine?

Not really. A car sold in this country will be mapped to run most efficiently on our fuels, which are generally 95 octane.

V Power, is highly regarded for it’s quality rather than its octane levels (which are lower than some competitors). Supermarkets for example have been known for for using a lot of additives in their fuels to bring octane levels up. Effectively cheating a bit.

What’s rarely discussed though, is the quality of ‘standard’ fuels. Most people see it as all the same and go for the cheapest. Or if they care more they go for the premium brands. But it’s not all about octane levels (unless you’re driving a car that is mapped for it…JDM imports for example), and one brand’s standard fuel could potentially be better than another brand’s ‘premium’ fuel. …possibly.

I use my local National Tyre and Autocare centre. I would consider myself quite handy as I’ve fixed my aircon..glow plugs and do all the other filters. However they charge about £44 for oil change, filter and disposal of the oil. To buy the the oil its about £40 anyway.

Is it actually worth filling up with the ‘premium’ petrol, especially in a (relatively) high power engine? (Audi 1.8T / 200hp

In that car it will probably give you more power, maybe more economy maybe not. A turbo car should run more boost I think with higher octane fuel – it’s certainly possible, the question is whether or not the ECU will adjust the boost accordingly. It will probably change (advance?) the ignition timing though which I tihnk increases efficiency, therefore power and economy.

Not too sure about this petrol malarky though.