you are being particularity pedantic about a small part of the argument.

Nope, I'm pointing out that driving slowly is not a crime and does not mean someone is lacking confidence, ability or skills to go fast. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, but you can't generalise and say "everyone driving slowly is a pain in the ass" just as you can't say everyone driving at or slightly above the limit is dangerous and out of control.

lol – I saw some terrible terrible driving in Italy. They also have significantly more deaths/person than we do. Only if you think there is something clever about being aggressive and macho would you think driving was better in Italy.

Ahhh, but I haven't said that they are better drivers…

FWIW, they scared the sh!t out of me – BUT the really striking contrast with the UK was how so many drivers here trundle around like drones, not paying attention, not concentrating, no spatial / situational awareness and basically not recognising any need for knowledge, skill and judgement.

1) there's a perception amongst some drivers that slower is safer/better driving; this is encouraged by the police and govt. (keed spills)
2) the population is getting older, hubby has to stop driving and Gladys has to learn to drive again even though she's been driven around by Cyril all her adult life, she's scared sh1tless by the fast moving pace of traffic nowadays, but Cyril bullies her in to driving down to the Lidl, so she wibbles along at walking pace.
3) fuel is stupidly expensive, I'm certainly driving lightfoot these days

Zokes, I suppose the issue for me is that people who drive fast, or 'make good progress' or whatever term you want to couch it in, often believe they are a better driver because they do so. Invariably, they are not.

Yes, I would prefer to be overtaken by a driver who was paying attention and gave me lots of space than one who wasn't. But I'd also prefer if they were driving slower. If you think otherwise, then I rather doubt you have cycled much on the roads. A car overtaking a cyclist perfectly legally at 55mph in a 60mph zone feels like the wrath of God going past.

Speed kills.

A car overtaking a cyclist perfectly legally at 55mph in a 60mph zone feels like the wrath of God going past.

I'd rather the 'wrath of god' of someone going past me, than someone who probably died a few weeks before they got into the car bimbling into me at 40.

INAPPROPRIATESpeed kills.

but you can't generalise and say "everyone driving slowly is a pain in the ass" just as you can't say everyone driving at or slightly above the limit is dangerous and out of control.

I agree. However it's usually the slow drivers who have that perception of faster drivers…

I do REALLY hate being passed on my road bike by cars doing 60/70 up a hill (when I'm doing 10ish mph!). Extremely dangerous and stupid. As a cyclist myself, I give cyclists loads of room when I'm driving.

It's so bad that I have changed a few regular routes to avoid all fast (for cars) uphill sections. Still alive so it's working so far.

It's not the speed (although it's shocking to the cyclist) it's the road positioning that's dangerous.

A car overtaking a cyclist perfectly legally at 55mph in a 60mph zone feels like the wrath of God going past.

Does it? Can't say that's something I find provided the car gives me the correct amount of room. Much preferred to somebody crawling past giving me no room because they're scared to cross the white line.

More car drivers driving slowly – good – that will reduce casualties.

A very one dimensional way of looking at it – do you have definitive proof that's the case? I'd suggest that drivers such as that mentioned in the OP who are going far slower than the reasonable/legal speed for the road are actually likely to result in more casualties due to provoking other drivers into doing dangerous things. That of course is assuming all things are equal – it is of course bad driving and lack of attention rather than speed itself which results in road casualties.

BTW I passed my test in 1987 (making me an average middle aged STWer) without going over 30mph.

INAPPROPRIATE Speed kills.

I'd disagree – bad decision making kills.

Drivers going too fast, driving beyond their vision / braking distance, not anticipating danger, are all making bad decisions. Most of the time they get away with it and believe themselves good drivers (and most of us would be included from time to time).

On the other hand, the ditherers give the impression of not knowing what a decision is, let alone the ability to make good ones. Whether this is reality or an unjust perception is irrelevant in terms of why they bother other road users – it's just too easy to conclude that they aren't up to it..

In my experience it is the drivers that have no awareness of what is going on around them, driving slowly for no reason etc that are the ones that will continue on their chosen path and not give cyclists room.

I always pull over to the kerb side as far as is safe to do so when seeing a bike coming in the opposite direction simply so the car manoeuvring around it can give it more space but you often get people still buzzing the cyclist presumably because they are not concentrating and haven't registered the fact that there is space for them to allow the cyclist room.

And another thing – how many of these drivers that give cyclists no room would slow right down behind a horse and only overtake when they have space to go right to the other carriageway?

The flip side of the person who doesn't drive at a speed safe for the road is that they often speed when the limit reduces. They seem to pick an arbitary speed that they are happy with, regardless of speed limit or road conditions.

Near to here is a lane that used to be NSL, reduced a couple of years ago to 40 – which, TBH, is a much safer limit for it. When it was NSL though people would drive the entire length at 40, enter the 30 zone at the top of the lane, and not slow down – WTF, not able to do close to the speed limit when it is a NSL, but hit a 30 limit approaching civilisation including 3 schools within a mile, and you still drive off at 40? Incompetent nonces.

Yep that one pisses me off.

The M8 near Glasgow is a nice example. It wobbles between 50, 60 and 70 at various points.

Some folk, like me, observe the limit – others are happy to drive up my arse and give me aggro in the 50, only for me to pass them again a few miles later when they are still doing 60 in the 70. Mental.

The flip side of the person who doesn't drive at a speed safe for the road is that they often speed when the limit reduces. They seem to pick an arbitary speed that they are happy with, regardless of speed limit or road conditions.

I totally agree with this. The other thing I find is I'll be behind a driver on a straight wide NSL road plodding along at just under 40mph. Thinking they must not be a confident driver or an old gran or something.

Then we'll then come to a tight corner or round about and I'll actually start to lose them as I slow down more for the turn and they plow through at exactly the same speed.

I think doing 20 in a 30 is quite acceptable, as 30's tend to be in built up areas, and there's plenty of argument for it being a 20mph limit anyhow.

However – Country roads are a different ball game. These days you get so many people dawdling along at 40mph in a 60mph. This gets drivers frustrated and then they overtake when its not appropiate in to a car coming the other direction. A good example of this is the road between Otley and Harrogate, a good safe, fast road with people that dordle. Trouble is these same people then continue to do 40mph when they get in to busy built up areas!

Leave early so you're not in rush when driving should someone hold you up.

Leave early so you're not in rush when driving should someone hold you up.

FAIL. Read the thread and try again.