Early cars were capable of going quite quickly, but generally didn’t because there was a high chance you’d die.

Drum brakes will do that… 😯

FunkyDunc – Member

all this thread is doing is re-afirming my belief that there are some c***s on the road who really shouldn’t be

Quite probably. Are those c***s the ones who have no idea how a car behaves at the limit of control or when you go passed it, the ones for whom ignorance is bliss?

neither and granted they are both just as dangerous as the ones who think its ok to drive like a c**k on speed, believing they know what they are doing.
take it to a track, learn what car control is, take a course that will demonstrate you know nothing and teach you the error of your ways and then go about your life driving sensibly knowing that you know how to drive and that the systems in the car are there to help should you need them in an emergency and aren’t there to stop you crashing.
it defies belief how many people really think they know what a car is doing and is capable of. you NEVER know what is around the next bend, could be a fallen tree, road collapsed, a horse/cyclist/kid, an accident, gravel on the road, mud, ice, road closed etc.
so unless you actually have REAL ESP and genuinely know what is about to happen ahead of schedule instead of a safety feature on your car, slow down and above all else concentrate on what you are doing and think “what if??”

christ i sound old. 🙂

I think the problem is a lot of drivers (Men) think they are better than they are. We all at some point think we are Sterling Moss. I have driven like a complete tit and I can now look back and think I was more lucky than skilled.

I think I had my epiphany once when I was on a track day. I had a TVR took it to tracks and thought I was a racing god. I then got the opportunity to go out with a proper driver. It’s a different world there skill levels are awesome, you think you can drive but in reality you can’t.

So I now take the ABS / TC and ESP because if I need them I’ll need them because I don’t have the skill.

Nah. Risk Compensation will sort that out. Folk will just driver faster.

No, cos in order to do that people would have to be thinking about what they were doing. They mostly don’t!

Two things everyone likes to think of themselves as above average at – sex and driving.

A criticism of either is never well received 🙂

I wouldn’t mind having sex with a few of the bad drivers I see on the school run mind you

Hehe 🙂

I’d add debating and critical thought to that list, for STW at least.

I had a hire car with esp of some sort at HTN – getting out of the snowey carpark was amazing – you could feel it making the most of the grip and I was surprised

No great downside to it as far as I can see.

molgrips – Member

“Nah. Risk Compensation will sort that out. Folk will just driver faster.
“
No, cos in order to do that people would have to be thinking about what they were doing. They mostly don’t!

Thats not how it works – risk compensation is not a concious choice by and large

It makes a difference how safe people FEEL, not how safe they actually are, imo.

So if you are in a big cushy car where it feels stable and doens’t look like you are going fast, people might faster. Doesn’t make any difference how that car actually performs in crash safety or when taking evasive action.

Safety is one of the main arguments people in the US use in favour of big SUVs and trucks, despite them not actually being any safer overall. And in some cases much worse than average.

… but whats good about ESP is that the care feels and handles the same, it only works when you take evasive action. Risk compensation is likely to be low.

I think the risk compensation thing is overstated anyway. How else have the number of people killed dropped from 8000 to 2000 despite millions more cars on the road?

Thought this post was about 15yrs old…never not heard of a new car these days without ESP as standard. I’d get it. Having done various driving courses and seen the benefit on and off, it can save your bacon if it all gets a bit sideways…

it only works when you take evasive action. Risk compensation is likely to be low.

Nope – because people take evasive action and don’t lose control or even feel like they might lose control, so they learn they can drive faster. Likewise it compensate for them hitting a wet/icy/diesel patch, so they don’t drive with respect for these hazards.

I think the risk compensation thing is overstated anyway. How else have the number of people killed dropped from 8000 to 2000 despite millions more cars on the road?

Safer roads (e.g. crash barriers) and better collision protection (seatbelts, airbags, roll cages, side impact bars, crumple zones, deformable bumpers).

Are you suggesting people drive much better now than they did say 20 years ago?

If I stripped out ALL the safety features in your car and put a big spike on your steering wheel pointing directly at your heart, would you drive the same as you do now?

Nope – because people take evasive action and don’t lose control or even feel like they might lose control, so they learn they can drive faster. Likewise it compensate for them hitting a wet/icy/diesel patch, so they don’t drive with respect for these hazards.

Yes, but ESP etc are so vastly ahead of human control capabilities in the most part even the higher driving speed is likely to be negated by the additional control. Obviously up to a point.

Personally I quite like a car where I can feel it losing control and play on those boundaries, but in a normal traffic/car situation I like having the aids to give me the best possible chance.

I believe that ESP is a feature on all cars sold in Inverness. Given that no f*cker here ever uses their indicators, Extra-Sensory Perception is the only way I can see of working out which way they are going.

I think you’re mixing up traction control with The Batmobile 🙂

Apart from emergency stops on people pulling out in front of me, I have never ever had to correct a skid on the open road. That might make me a good driver.. 🙂