going to get a new berlingo sometime in the next few months and ESP is an optional extra (about £400, but does inculde some extra rear airbags).

Just wondering if ESP is a worthwhile safety feature. With it being a berlingo i wont be ragging it around twisty roads, but i’m thinking as its a bit more top heavy then maybe it might be more prone to skidding if i do overcook it!

It’s not for ragging it about. You’d turn it off then.

It’s for when you are driving along and hit a random patch of ice or diesel spill etc.

Personally, I’m into safety features.

Only ever seen mine come on when I overcook it on a bend and it attempts to hand brake the back in a bit for me!

I thought it was mandatory on all new vehicles since November 2011, although it is still listed as an option for the Berlingo I see.

EDIT – I wonder if that means all new vehicles brought out since then.

It really helps in the ice and snow.

definitely worth it. i did an high speed driving course with Rob Gravitt a few years back and they banged on about its vitues for ages. basically they said its worth having over many many other options and put on some practical demonstrations to prove it.
for road driving where the unpredictable happens regularly, its a god send. for track driving where the surface is consistent and everyone is goign the same way its not worth it and actually makes the car worse, but then when are you going to take a berlingo on a track?? and why would you turn it off ont he road?

by the way, they are great vehicles!!

TBH if it includes extra airbags it’s got to be worth it for the passenger safety anyway hasn’t it, even if you never use the ESP itself.

I’d get it.
Imagine if you crashed in a way that it would have likely helped, you would always be thinking what if (well I would anyway).

It’s great until the car gets to about 7 years old. If the abs pump fails or
An ESP computer fails it can effectively write off the car.

My mrs had her esp light come on after an accident in a five yr old VW Touran. The insurance were told but the garage screwed up, they did the bodywork but tried to weasel their way out of fixing the ESP (I think they forgot to bill the insurance for it). Cost them £1500 to fix.

I wouldn’t bother for that reason. The less features the better. I’ve only lost control once in 20 years (after deliberately spinning a car in the ice on an airfield) so I reckon I can live without it in the future.

Good point!

I wouldn’t pay extra for it, no way! In winter it actually hinders progress in my Passat because as soon as it detects a hint of wheelspin it brakes that wheel and you end up gradually slowing down and stalling. I have driven up the same snowy hill with it on and failed then unset it and got up the hill with momentum and good gear choice and a delicate throttle.

ABS might help you to steer under extreme braking but as far as I can see ESP is for muppet drivers who don’t know how to control their cars.

You only need to lose control once, it could be the end of you. I’ve never lost control of a car, and I do n’t intend to. Imagine if your wife died in a crash caused by a fuel spill.. you’d be wondering if £400 and the risk of a bill would have saved her life…

Globalti esp is not for snow like that, which is why you can turn it off. That exact scenario. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth it in other situations.

I’ve had mine flashing away on snow, ice and even some unexpected water on an otherwise dry road.

Don’t suppose I’d have necessarily been killed to death without it, but the same goes for most safety features (ABS, airbags, side impact bars etc).

ABS might help you to steer under extreme braking but as far as I can see ESP is for muppet drivers who don’t know how to control their cars.

One could say ABS is for muppet drivers who don’t leave enough space in front of them / drive too fast for the conditions.

They are both there to handle the unexpected.

In my opinion, it depends on whether it’s tied in with traction control and how that traction control is implemented. I had a Focus with ESP (which could be disabled). The first time ESP kicked in (or the first time I noticed it kicking in) it braked one rear wheel to bring the back around on an icy decent…impressive. Unfortunately I usually had to have it off as the traction control (which was enabled when ESP was on) was chronic, cutting engine power long after a tiny wheelslip occurred, just when you needed power to pull out of a junction…a nightmare.

cutting engine power long after a tiny wheelslip occurred, just when you needed power to pull out of a junction…a nightmare.

Can’t say I’ve ever noticed that on my Focus – but then I don’t generally wheelspin out of junctions 😀

Slightly OT, I’m a bit disturbed that people have commented they have never lost control of a car. I’d be concerned if they said they’d never lost control of their curent car, let alone any car. How do they know where the limits are then? You know, those limits that are easily reached in emergency unforeseeable situations?

it’s damned impressive on the mk4 focus, i had a huge lift off oversteer moment when some twazzock came shooting out of a roundabout junction in front of me at about 40mph (big roundabout joining a DC), before I could get the opposite lock on, it braked some of the wheels and snapped it back into line. Really really good bit of kit.

Can’t say I’ve ever noticed that on my Focus – but then I don’t generally wheelspin out of junctions

You obviously never tried pulling out of Denham Media Park onto the NSL road with blind crest.

I’d be concerned if they said they’d never lost control of their curent car, let alone any car. How do they know where the limits are then?

I’ve spun mine about on an icy car park, but I don’t consider that “losing control” because I chose to do it and it wasn’t on a public road.

I have it on my pick-up, which is great as they are very tail happy.

On another note it has emergency brake assist, which is awesome. Under normal braking the brakes work as normal, but stamp on them and its like hitting a brick wall. 2 tonnes of metal and it stops on a sixpence – so much so that vehicles behind have been caught out the couple of times its kicked in.

I’ve cornered as quickly as I dare in all the cars I’ve had, and never felt close to the limit (apart from that Fiesta). To lose control in either of my cars on tarmac I would have to be going far far quicker than I would ever drive for reasons of visibility and predictability.

I do test the braking limit of the car in different conditions, and I do test grip when driving in snow etc, to see where I stand. Not everyone does though, nor should everyone, I expect.

Everyone should have a skid education day though, at regular intervals too.

Oh and the TC on my Passat allows quite a bit of wheelspin.

Tucker,

I’ve explored the (mainly mine) limits but only once lost it, I could argue that I chose to spin and it did.

There’s a difference between drifting and feeling the limit and overstepping it and losing it. most skilled racing drivers drive on the limit. To ‘lose it’ would be unaffordable.

I’m doing it everyday (on aircraft) and am comfortable in those (on limit) situations in terms of reaction and physiology. However my day to day driving keeps me way away from the limits, however I always do a traction check if the conditions are sketchy.

The comment about traction control is valid. I had a nightmare the other day whereby the ASR kicked in on my T5 and really slowed my progress out of the junction. I might have had a small amount of wheel slip but it’s inputs totally reduced my ability to pull away.

The ESP on our old 407 certainly got us out of a spot of potentially serious bother once on a slightly snowy road after a moment of indecision on my behalf. Driver error was duly corrected by the car and on we went. Mrs. has never let me forget that moment.

ESP is like having your mum in the car.

turn mine off on my A3 if I want to make any kind of progress on twisty roads.

Jambo, I’ve made progress without it kicking in – I shudder to think how fast you must be going to make that happen.

Either your tyres are awful and worn, or you’re being extremely dangerous.

His ESP sounds like it’s knackered. I can drive in a spirited manner on twisty roads without my ESP even flickering.

Or perhaps MY ESP is knackered 😉

ESP is like having your mum in the car.

turn mine off on my A3 if I want to make any kind of progress on twisty roads.

Yeah a bit, when its dry I tend to turn mine off too. Worth keeping on in the wet though where traction is less predictable. ESP is worth having. I think accident statistics for cars with ESP bear this out

molgrips – Member

Jambo, I’ve made progress without it kicking in – I shudder to think how fast you must be going to make that happen.

Either your tyres are awful and worn, or you’re being extremely dangerous.

That’s totally dependent on the car and how the ESP is set up.

when its dry I tend to turn mine off too. Worth keeping on in the wet though

Fortunately “when its dry” there are never unexpected piles of wet leaves, burst drains, diesel spills, gravel, or banana skins on the road.

Used to think it was useless in my car until I hit a patch of ice once. The car straightened up right away – amazing

It kicked in a couple of times when the unexpected happened in my Focus. The ESP definitely helped although it does feel a bit strange having the car do something you haven’t told it to do.

I think if you are a very careful driver it’s not necessary but if you’re driving on unfamiliar roads in unfamiliar conditions it has its uses.

Fortunately “when its dry” there are never unexpected piles of wet leaves, burst drains, diesel spills, gravel, or banana skins on the road.

Match speed with sight my friend and very little becomes unexpected

Got it on my berlingo. I paid for the airbags and saw the ESP as a bonus. You also get the hill start assist stuff which is actually quite handy when you’ve got a load in the back (thought it would be crap, but it’s not).

ESP gubbins seemed to help a lot on a few very snowy drives last year. I’d go for it again.

I would not have a car without it. Have had some professional experience in the industry over the years and the chassis test engineers didn’t turn it off in their own cars – ever (OK – they did on a track, but not on the road). And that’s people who do eight wheel drifts with a double axle caravan hanging off the back of a car so not too shabby behind the wheel.

Im amazed that its an optional extra. I assumed it was standard on all new cars now a days.

ESP isn’t just a safety feature but can also cut down on wear and tear on the vehicle when it cuts power stopping excessive tyre spin and transmission abuse.

ESP isn’t just a safety feature but can also cut down on wear and tear on the vehicle when it cuts power stopping excessive tyre spin and transmission abuse.

I think people are confusing traction control with ESP. Not the same thing at all. A lot of the references here to “the light coming on” sound like TC rather than ESP…

Just saying.

A lot of the references here to “the light coming on” sound like TC rather than ESP…

Dunno. Not a driving expert like, but the light does say ESP on it.

Your right but on my Mondeo the ESP button operates both controls for stability and traction. They normally work in tandem with power been cut and braking applied to individual wheels to control the under or oversteer.